Original message
| Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
|  "Columbine"
, posted Sun 22 Apr 16:41  
*sigh*
Here we go again...
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1002,11%257E24990,00.html
I´m NOT even going to give my opinion, since everybody knows it. I´ll like to post a comment made by a Stomped visitor, wich I think it pretty much explains it all :
"The cause and effect between playing DOOM and committing murder is a relatively easy scientific hypothesis. Simplifying here for brevity's sake:
NULL hypothesis: playing DOOM causes players to kill people.
Sample size: 1 million to 10 million+ people who have played doom in the US (not looking at world wide figures).
Number of people who have played DOOM and killed people: 2 upwards of 10 in the US (the upper limit is not known for sure, but will assume 10 here for argument's sake).
Statistical significance is 1 in 100,000 to 1 in 1,000,000 or: 0.00001 to 0.000001.
Most scientists use a value of 0.05 as the threshold for statistical significance when looking at phenomenon. Simple analysis here shows that there is no relationship between playing DOOM and killing people.
The case should be dismissed."
People should think before doing...
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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Replies:
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| Epistax
god@unitedstates.com
1356856
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Thu 26 Apr 12:25
Video games might cause some kids to feel themselvs more familiar with firearms or situations than they actually are. As someone else mentioned, something as simple as avoiding things like aimed head shots, draws a thicker line between reality and games.
It is very hard to say though. There is no reason that people should be denied a total killing thingy- it would just be a very good game. However some people will take it wrongly.
What to do!
----
God is made out of faith.
You have proof there is a god?
Therefore there is not.
- Spake the Mule
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| Don Incognito
dj_wallet_stealer@hotmail.com
84480454
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Wed 25 Apr 20:47
I rate this news article with a....
SCREW YOU FAGS!
----------------------------
With love and care (laced with raw passion)
Don Incognito
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| Stealthy Ivan
Stealthyivan@hotmail.com
| "Fuck Columbine" , posted Tue 24 Apr 07:53
Yup.... fuck Columbine, This happened a long time ago, who cares anymore, its fucking lame.
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| sirgalahadwizar
sirgalahadwizard@hotmail.com
45229070
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 11:58
Whoah, I jsut tried to reply and lots of gibberish came up, like keywords for a search engine or something... anyway.
I have played doom and doom-like games for the past 5 years... so far I have not hurt, destroyed, or otherwise disposed of any physical property or animals under any impulse I may have had while playing these games.
I would ahve to say, that the most effect these games may have had on me - for any situation that might occur in the future, would ahve to be an improvement in either strategy or tactics. These games, in no way or very little way, train you to be a (better) killer. First of all, The guns you are given to use in these games are usually not real, and the ones that are real are still unrealistic in their function. When you fire a weapon in the real world it gives off a loud bang and recoils in your hand - both things do not happen in games (and it's only loud if you have volume AND bass turned up - then it still isn't realistic).
In most doom-like games you are not rewarded for hitting any special areas on an opponent's body, thus you are not being trained to fire a weapon in a specificially lethal fasion - any knowledge that you derive from this comes from you or other sources.
Experiment a little with the logic center of your brain before a zombie eats it.
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| | CRiZ
cwebst01@tufts.edu
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Tue 24 Apr 21:09
Most real guns aren't aimed with a mouse, duh.
These games may make you think more like a cold blooded killer. If you don't play these games you probably won't be exposed to situations where your only thought is how to most efficiently destroy a lifeform.
Wackos kill people, not Doom fans. A wacko can be a Doom fan, but he only kills people cuz he's wacko. DUH.
_ __ _____ __ _____ __ _____ __ _
"Just because you're paranoid don't mean they're not after you."
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| | sunshinegoth
g0th1c5un5h1n3@hotmail.com
| "ummm, yes they do..." , posted Tue 24 Apr 15:27
first person games completely train you to be a better killer. i'm not experienced with actual guns (i have fired an m-16 before, but aside from that), but i'll bet you i could hit a running person more often than someone who had never played first person shooters. (i read a study the american government did..they gave rifles to kids who had never used a gun before, but liked to play FPS's, and compared their accuracy to a group of kids who had never used a gun before, and didn't like to play FPS. they found that the kids who played FPS's had remarkable accuracy.)
how can you say that you aren't given "real" guns in a game? do "shotguns" and "pistols" not exist? ... have you ever played counterstrike? they use real guns, from what i remember.. (desert eagles, and such)
"loud bangs" have nothing to do with it. how can you say that the guns in games aren't realistic in their funtion? you point, you pull the trigger, buddy you're pointing at gets a big hole in him.
in most new doom-like games, you ARE rewarded for hitting specific areas.. have you ever played soldier of fortune? when you shoot them in the face, you take them out with one bullet... when you shoot them in the arm, they loose an arm..
i don't think that the "anti-violence in video games" movement really says that FPS's teach kids that shooting people in the head kills them... any idiot knows that. their real arguments are that violent video games are improving peoples aim with guns in real life (which is true) and that violent video games desensitize people to violence. (which is also true)
nobody can say that doom causes people to kill people (i personally think 'harassment' causes people to kill people..), but you can argue that it makes people more efficient at killing. that's not entirely a bad thing.. i mean.. military and police training both make people more efficient killers (i.e. better shots)
(and what the hell is wrong with being 'desensitized' to violence? aren't doctors and policemen 'desensitized' to it?)
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| | sirgalahadwizar
sirgalahadwizard@hotmail.com
45229070
|  "Re(1):ummm, yes they do..."
, posted Wed 25 Apr 07:38
A) I dont think the bfg9000 or the plasma rifle, or even a rocket launcher is a real wepaon (at least rocket luanchers dont take doom's form of them). I dont think a razorjack, flakgun, pulse rifle, AMSD, Redeemer, or Rocket launcher in the sense that UT portrays them are real weapons.
B) I have never played HL or any game related to it (like counterstrike). It's just not my style of gaming.
C) I dont remember doom allowing you to mlook and aim at an enemie's head and kill them with one shot - or the heart for that matter. Even at point blank range sometimes it took up to 3 shots to kill a trooper with your pistol. Shotguns will not go through hordes of troopers in real life like they do in doom.
D) Guns in doom do not have relaistic function. I dont remember having to reload the pistol or for that matter the regular shotgun either, and the double shotgun took way too little time to reload. In real life you could fire the pistol much faster thna in the game, in rela life you would ahve to reload your shotgun after every 4-8 shots. In real life you wouldnt be able to fire the chaingun because it would require a mount, the rocket launcher would be single-shot and shoudler mounted, and "energy" weapons dont exist yet the last time I checked.
E) Loud bangs, and recoil has everything to do with it - esp. if you have never actually fired a gun before (or something measily like a .22LR like me). And btw, targets are much harder to hit in real life than they are in games.
F) No, I havent ever played soldier of fortune - for the same reason I ahven't played quake3. Not that I would play it anyway because I don't like the game Sof - I don't like the weapons layout and I dont like locational damage (makes it more like a simulator than a "game", which defeats the purpose of playing it in the first place - to escape from reality for a little bit).
Experiment a little with the logic center of your brain before a zombie eats it.
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| | Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(1):ummm, yes they do..." , posted Tue 24 Apr 16:43
I think the only reason why FPSs teach somehow to handle weapons is more based on eye-hand coordination improvement than actual gun wisdom.
I took a course on weapon handling for a year, and I pretty much suck with rifles. In fact I was astonished while realizing how complex is the firing process. You never get that feel on games.
FPSs don´t teach too much. The only thing I can rescue is the basics of weapon reloading, and a general idea on hows a weapon carried/aimed.
People fond of war movies have by far more wisdom regarding weapon usage, while FPSs players have eye-hand coord. A gamer could be better in firing/aiming than a no-gamer, but what´s the point?
The point of discussion is not "games teach to use fireguns", is "games teach to murder". This has absolutely no sense. If a kid´s screwed enough to actually try to kill people, it won´t matter if he has an M4 or a stick with a nail, he´ll do it...
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| | sirgalahadwizar
sirgalahadwizard@hotmail.com
45229070
|  "Re(2):ummm, yes they do..."
, posted Wed 25 Apr 08:00
Gotta point there, weapons are weapons are weapons.
Playing a FPS game might increase your reaction time, target aqquisition skill and hand-eye coordination, but I doubt it will increase your effectiveness at fighting up close to anything - or hitting anything beyond 50m away.
It pretty much only teaches you to react fast to approching enemies and blow holes in them - not necciscarily blow holes in specific parts of them.
Even if they ban guns - which seems to be what is happening, People will only resort to knives, swords, and a host of other weapons that are potentially more lethal than firearms.
=====
Now to sound like im insane:
The guys who assaulted columbine did a really crappy job of preparing. I would ahve used an m-14 instead of a shotgun or an assualt rifle. I would have brought 200+ rounds for it and left another 200+ rounds in my locker on a previous day.
Reasons are because If you are hit by 7.62mm rounds it has pretty much the same effect on you as a shotgun blast in the first place - emt's don't know exactly how to treat high velocity bullet wounds because they can essentially blow an appendage off even if you dont get a lethal shot in (ie, still lethal because they bleed to death and it can't be fixed).
Plus an m-14 can carry up to 30 shots per clip, and one shot will go through 2-3 people (for crowd purposes). If you let loose full-auto or even semi-auto on a crowd you are assured to kill at least 50 people - because they will be dead by the time the emergency crews get them stabilized.
And another thing - you never use gasoline for bombs, you use high-explosive when able or gunpowder if you have to. Pipe bombs are only really good to use when you can trigger them to blow up when you want them to. This is so that when you start firing your weapon in an enclosed space (like a library) and people start running, you blow up the exits to the building when the most people are leaving - this kills another 100 people easy.
To protect yourself from the police, you need body armor - esp. something that will protect your head (because they will start doing head-shots when you start killing them). Either shoot a police man several times or do a headshot because ther bullet-proof vest may slow down the rifle bullets enough to keep them from sure death (and dont even think about using a pistol on them).
===end of insanity===
(any above information was formulated during a simple brainstorm, and was in no way, in the present or the future intended as a plan to kill civilan or law enforcement officers. I am not insane, and the above info was meant as a tactical suppliment for an imagined scenario).
Experiment a little with the logic center of your brain before a zombie eats it.
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| | Davidoom
m.hickling@ntlworld.com
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 13:01
In the wake of this, the rise in school shootings may lead to Doom, Id Software to be blamed....will it ever end? :(
=============
NIRVANA 4 EVER
Jeremy has spoken.
Doom 3057!
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| Lord FlatHead
lordflathead@yahoo.com
112071624
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 08:55
In the past few years I've shot, blown up, pistol-whipped or otherwise hurt many thousands of people and monsters in games. Doing these things, never was I as disgusted with myself as I am with these people.
A loved one has been shot, so what's the natural reaction ? Blame it on Carmack and use the death of your husband to become a millionaire.
How low can you go ?
--
"Well... I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do." -- John Carmack
www.geocities.com/lordflathead
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| | Disorder
enter@softhome.net
27436321
|  "Re(2):Columbine"
, posted Mon 23 Apr 09:32
Amen... That bitch should be shot in the head herself.. Oh, wait. I gotta stop playing SoF man... ;)
-someday I'll cut you just like they cut me-
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| stphrz
stphrz63@hotmail.com
nah...
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 17:59
Here's my little theory. School shootings are bad. They cause IQs to drop :P
--------------------------------------------------
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?
-Captain Beefheart
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| | deadnail
deadnail@yahoo.com
4957448
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 18:19
To contest your theory... who gets shot in school shootings? The people that keep shoving, hitting and insulting the weirdo quiet kids in the back of the class (like I used to be).
I don't call that an IQ drop, most of them deserve some punishment... although 8 grams of lead is hellaciously excessive.
The neutral kids are the ones that usually succeed, 'cuz they're too busy studying to afford any sort of social life. I smoked a lot of weed and spent most of my focus on chicks, hence, I ended up dropping out and getting my GED. =P
Coincidentally enough, I failed my Junior year of High School yet I passed the GED when I was 14. Go figure, the damn thing doesn't count 'till you're 18. I landed a Union Steelworkers job and now I make as much as people that went to college for two years. BTW, the layoff (thanks to the Clinton recession) is being pulled back sharply and I should be returning to work within a month! Yay!
Never trust the quiet kids or the fashion kids.
The quiet kids are quiet 'cuz they're thinking a lot. Maybe they're thinking about video games, being a movie director, or just maybe they're thinking about shooting a fashion kid. You don't know, they're usually sarcastic assholes (again, like me) so you can't really engage them in conversation.
The fashion kids are loud and try DESPERATELY to be noticed and fit in because at heart they don't believe themselves, that's why they attempt to bring EVERYONE else down they can in some vain idiotic attempt to make themselves seem better... justified to them because it only works for them.
The easiest people to pick on are the quiet ones.
So who wins?
No one, 'cuz kids are like EVERY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE (let me repeat myself):
A few winners, A WHOLE LOTTA LOSERS.
*Sigh*
What ever happened to parenting?
_____________ ____ ___ __ _
http://www.deadnail.f2s.com
"Call your damnable hunt.
We shall see whom I drag screaming to hell with me."
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| | sirgalahadwizar
sirgalahadwizard@hotmail.com
45229070
| "Re(3):Columbine" , posted Tue 24 Apr 07:27
Yeah, quiet guys like me who people thought would blow the school up.
The weirdo at the back of the class (or front and side of class) is usually the smartest guy in the room, they just dont get much credit for it all the time because some of them are lazy (ie, grades do not = intelligence).
Anyway, it's not much of an IQ drop, but its a great improvement in the average IQ of the class :).
Besides, even IQ doesn't measure intelligence - to do that you have to take about 8 seperate IQ tests aimed at certain aspects of intelligence. I think these are the ones:
Math, Literary, Spatial, Intrapersonal, Interpersonal, Verbal, and a few others I forgot.
I excel at spatial, and am partially good at math, but I suck at all the rest.
Experiment a little with the logic center of your brain before a zombie eats it.
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| | Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(4):Columbine" , posted Tue 24 Apr 08:05
Those are the only ones I know, they gave me those tests the first day on high school...
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| | stphrz
stphrz63@hotmail.com
nah...
| "Re(3):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 19:56
Actually I was referring to the dumbass connection between video games and violence made by the media and society in general (which seems to accept everthing the media tells them). It's just so stupid. Every time there is a school shooting it's inevitble that everything and everyone gets blamed except for the shooters themselves and/or the ignorant ass bullies who pushed them beyond their capacity to endure. Of course parenting also factors heavily into this. Parents do need to know what their kids are doing. Parents do need to teach their kids not to be bullies. I personally was never bullied to any degree worth mentioning. I was one of those "neutral" type kids. I was never popular with the "elite" set, but I wasn't a target of them either.
--------------------------------------------------
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?
-Captain Beefheart
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| | deadnail
deadnail@yahoo.com
4957448
| "Re(4):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 20:14
I was quiet/neutral... although I had A LOT of friends none of them would really stick up for me, they just thought I was cool. You get respect when you freely cuss out teachers, especially when the teacher's like you so much they don't mind! =)
"That fuckin' bench just split I gotta splinter in my ass!"
"Excuse me, Mister Hicks, do you mean you have a splinter in your butt-tocks?"
"Yeah, right in my fucking right ass cheek."
"Well okay so long as we're in agreement."
=P
_____________ ____ ___ __ _
http://www.deadnail.f2s.com
"Call your damnable hunt.
We shall see whom I drag screaming to hell with me."
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| | masterhassan
jedimasterhassan@aol.com
| "Re(5):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 17:35
deadguy ive always felt sort of a bond with you (no gay jokes intended) i used to be the wquiet type...probably because i would get made fun of if i opened my =mouth...like i always did. but then aorudn 6th grade i realized that i dotn give a shit...make fun of me all you want. and i started to like it. now im a complete individual. but i talk more thatn anyone i know...and im sarchastic as hell. sarchasm is my main weapon. i hate it when peopel dont notice me. i maek then notice me. and if tehy tried to beat teh shit out of me id kick theyre ass. but noone would because pretty much everyoenb thinks im funny now. its eird as soon as you stop tryign to fit in everyone starts likign you. ...ok maybe we dont have much in common. but most of my veiws are the same as yours. i seriously want to write a letter containing all of the arguments on this subject to some big shot government guy. i doubt anyone knows how to contact bush do oyu?
"Hassan chop"
"why are you late?"
"my dog caught on fire and my house ran away."
"So a guy walks into a bar and says "ouch"
" bum dum chi
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| | Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(5):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 21:26
So was I (and I still are). Quiet/Neutral with no real threats. I had friends who would stick out for me, but it wasn´t necessary. A good portion of my friends were on higher courses, so *MAY* had some kind of shield.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| EllipsusD
EllipsusD@yahoo.com
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 17:29
Reading that makes me want to be responsible for a violent game... just to have the opportunity to argue it with those fools.
I am the future waiting to be born.
-D
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| | Lüt
toruonda@home.com
23065834
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 18:50
I'd go more for the music/music video route. Nowadays you don't have to have any talent or uniquity whatsoever to make it big so that industry is fair game.
---
You have been bothered by: Lüt
"Superchunk!"
www.doomworld.com/insanity
www.mp3.com/dyingcorpse
www.thebarnacle.f2s.com
AIM: Dying Corpse - SB4824 - XtbbTSzNyKw5sRB4.
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| | Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 18:42
Yeah, a nice flamewar a la Derek Smart would put those morons in their minds.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| Lüt
toruonda@home.com
23065834
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 17:08
You know what else is funny, under the DenverPost Online communities, where they have those channels like Health & Fitness, Recreation, Career, Entertainment, etc. they have one called Columbine. If I had time I'd post my own page there stating the opinions of all the members here and make it all-the-more well known what you just said about scientific statistics and what everybody else here knows to be true.
Maybe somebody else should do that.
---
You have been bothered by: Lüt
"Superchunk!"
www.doomworld.com/insanity
www.mp3.com/dyingcorpse
www.thebarnacle.f2s.com
AIM: Dying Corpse - SB4824 - XtbbTSzNyKw5sRB4.
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| | masterhassan
jedimasterhassan@aol.com
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 17:37
thats a kick ass idea. then theyd know what other goths/punks/anti-social/weirdos (myself) think about this whoel shitstain in our society
"Hassan chop"
"why are you late?"
"my dog caught on fire and my house ran away."
"So a guy walks into a bar and says "ouch"
" bum dum chi
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| | Lüt
toruonda@home.com
23065834
| "Re(3):Columbine" , posted Tue 24 Apr 03:18
Hell, if somebody did, I'd even register their website for them.
---
You have been bothered by: Lüt
"Superchunk!"
www.doomworld.com/insanity
www.mp3.com/dyingcorpse
www.thebarnacle.f2s.com
AIM: Dying Corpse - SB4824 - XtbbTSzNyKw5sRB4.
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| Lüt
toruonda@home.com
23065834
| "Re(1):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 16:59
quote:
He called on Carmack to prohibit the sale and distribution of all video games rated for mature audiences to children under 17 - and to do it by April 30.
...
THAT'S MY BIRTHDAY! THEY'RE GOING TO BASTARDIZE MY BIRTHDAY BY PULLING THIS SHIT ON APRIL 30 HUH?
I DON'T THINK SO!!
---
You have been bothered by: Lüt
"Superchunk!"
www.doomworld.com/insanity
www.mp3.com/dyingcorpse
www.thebarnacle.f2s.com
AIM: Dying Corpse - SB4824 - XtbbTSzNyKw5sRB4.
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| | Zack
tailsfox16@hotmail.com
16674652
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 19:32
Lut, just be happy, man, that your b-day isn't April 20.
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| | deadnail
deadnail@yahoo.com
4957448
| "Re(2):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 17:49
The hell is wrong with you? I was carded when I bought Parasite Eve 2 last fucking year. My droogie is a Manager at the local Hollywood video, his orders are to **FIRE** any employee that rents Conker's Bad Fur Day to a kid (or to a parent FOR a kid).
So how bad is the game? It starts out with the squirrel getting drunk as hell and vomiting on a stranger in the street. Then it progresses to doing random tasks to go from one place to the next, laden with profanity and dirty humor the whole way through.
"Man, you gotta help me! Get this fat bitch of my back!"
"C'mon you pussy assed faggot kick his fucking ass!"
Of course the harder words are censored... about the worst one they let slide is 'shit'. Typical N64... dammit, the game is rated M. 17 or above. Like R. Why can't they have Showgirls style nudity or Last Boy Scout style language? It's a double standard.
_____________ ____ ___ __ _
http://www.deadnail.f2s.com
"Call your damnable hunt.
We shall see whom I drag screaming to hell with me."
|
| | Submerge
doublehelix@agent4054.com
| "Re(3):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 04:34
I completely understand why an employee would get fired for selling or renting that game to a young person.
I took a short look at a strategy guide and.......
I don't think I'll buy it anytime soon, let's say.
Unless, I got a brain tumor that took control of me, or something.
That is like, the only game I've seen that is rated M for it's sick content, not violence.
Well here I am in hell and.....
Hey is that a snowball?
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| | Zaldron
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(3):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 18:39:
I can´t believe they listed NINTENDO, the fischer-price console/games developer, on that lawsuit. Definitly, a person looks like a complete fool when he talks of something they don´t know squat about.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
[this message was edited by Zaldron on Sun 22 Apr 19:19] |
| | stphrz
stphrz63@hotmail.com
nah...
| "Re(4):Columbine" , posted Sun 22 Apr 19:58
Like I said. School shootings cause IQ's to drop......
--------------------------------------------------
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?
-Captain Beefheart
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| | Davidoom
davidoomz@hotmail.com
| "Re(5):Columbine" , posted Mon 23 Apr 13:41
quote:
It is our job as parents to know what is going on in our kids lives. It is our job as parents to take whatever corrective and/or disciplinary action necessary to insure that our kids act in a respon
...
And with the parenting issues you brought up...one person said, aftermath of Columbine
=============
NIRVANA 4 EVER
Jeremy has spoken.
--Creator of Doom Ceasion--
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