Original message
| Dima
alexsok@netvision.net.il
77090113
|  "Doom's AI"
, posted Sun 13 May 10:16:  
I don't know what about you guys but AI was never id's strong side...
I am kinda worried about the monsters and characters AI...
Especially since Jan Paul Van Waveren is working on it...
His latest AI system (Quake 3: Team Arena) while impressive, wasn't as good as in UT (I am talking about the bots).
I know that "Doom" will be id's biggest and baddiest game yet and for now everything seems to be going the right path.
I sure hope the AI system is completely rewritten and Jan Paul has learned from his mistakes.
That's about the only thing that worries me about "The New Doom".
P.S
Carmack and Dose, keep a good eye on waveren's work!
"We've been doing hacks and tricks for years but now we'll be able to do things we've been wanting to do for a long time" Carmack said. "For instance every light has its own highlight and every surface casts a shadow like in the real world". "Everything can behave the same now and we can apply effects for every pixel."
[this message was edited by Dima on Sun 13 May 10:17] |
| Replies:
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| DooMBoy
tallj_2000@yahoo.com
287657894
| "Re(1):Doom's AI" , posted Sat 26 May 16:44
Worry not, Dima, 'cause the GF3 should not only be able to handle graphics and such related things sharply, it should also be able handle the AI quite good, too.
If Doom3's going to be more realistic, it better have actually smart creatures. No more of this "BullDog Demon sees you and then starts running in circles."
Tim is so smart he can say Doom in 9 languages; so ignorant he can't install it.-DooMBoy
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| Speshul Eddy
tarbaby99@earthlink.net
| "Re(1):Doom's AI" , posted Mon 14 May 14:59:
Yeah, the focus will definitely be different this time.
I'm sure we'll be pleasantly surprised with the AI in Doom 3. Just remember that we're not talking about bots here. The real focus should be on making the enemies behave like vicious, bloodthirsty, reasonably intelligent animals, rather than sprinting traffic cones who fire rail guns with disgusting accuracy.
After all, seeing a demon cautously walk around, sniff some dead imp, then spot you, start snarling, and launch itself at you, makes for alot more atmosphere than killing the imp, hearing the classic demon alert sound, then turning the corner to see a demon charging around in circles.
Trust me, it'll be good. =)
---------------------------------------
I'm only paranoid because they're out to get me dammit.
[this message was edited by Speshul Eddy on Mon 14 May 15:05] |
| Zaldron
Le Ventilateur
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(1):Doom's AI" , posted Sun 13 May 13:59
Well, here's the deal.
First than all, the AI approach is different now. It's not "behave like human", but "behave like a monster, realistically".
Bots know how to drive around levels without colliding with the surroundings, that's good. With a few touches, you have a navigational system capable of tracking you down, no matter how much you run.
Each AI depends in the theorical behavior of each enemy type. That's archieved by combining mainstream behavior, where you can edit certain "skills", and a couple of sequences solely designed for each monster.
For example, thanks to skeletal animation, it's easy to adopt "evasive maneuvers" in all the creatures. Of course, there should be a variable that defines how prone to dodge X kind of monster is. Same would happen with stuff like : agresiveness, hiding, dodging, hunting skill, cowardy, wounds effec, etc, etc...
Believe me people, we'll see few monsters per sec in DooM3. I'm sure id's cooking a sharp AI. Never judge a SP AI based on a MP AI done previously, they're too different, at least for the time being.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| | Dima
alexsok@netvision.net.il
77090113
| "Re(2):Doom's AI" , posted Sun 13 May 21:58
But Zaldron, previous id games ALSO suck in the AI department!
"We've been doing hacks and tricks for years but now we'll be able to do things we've been wanting to do for a long time" Carmack said. "For instance every light has its own highlight and every surface casts a shadow like in the real world". "Everything can behave the same now and we can apply effects for every pixel."
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| | Zaldron
Le Ventilateur
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(3):Doom's AI" , posted Mon 14 May 09:00
You really think so?
Let see. We have DooM AI, wich is dumb, right, but FPS AI was a concept too CPU-intensive then. Graphic calc/rendering is still the heaviest computation in games, and that won't change until T&L becomes a standard.
Quake 1 had a very nice AI. Not because the creatures were able to think in a smart way, but because their attacks were combined in a succesful way with the AI. Remember the Fiend, with it's cumbersome attack, the Shambler with his instantaneous lighting bolt, the Vore with the homing projectile. You don't need a superAI to make hard enemies.
Quake 2 had a pretty good AI too. Most people think Half-Life AI is really great. Allow me to laugh :
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!1111
It was all scripted. Scripting all over the place. You can beat 4 marines with the crappy pistol easily. Just run the tutorial map of Worldcraft (the small warehouse).
Q3A bots, while not perfect, are one of the hardest enemies to fight. I can frag Xaero 3 times in Nightmare, and that's it. That's harder than most of my friends...
I'll say it again. Don't judge id by their previous games. Now that I think about it, you can't do it with ANY developers...
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| | Lüt
Albino Negro 
toruonda@home.com
23065834
| "Re(3):Doom's AI" , posted Sun 13 May 22:36
YOU suck in previous departments.
---
You have been bothered by: Lüt
"Living Colour is my favorite black metal band."
www.doomworld.com/insanity
www.mp3.com/dyingcorpse
www.thebarnacle.f2s.com
AIM: Dying Corpse - SB4824 - XtbbTSzNyKw5sRB4 <-- Talk to me dammit!
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| | Dima
alexsok@netvision.net.il
77090113
| "Re(4):Doom's AI" , posted Mon 14 May 03:50
Your mother sucks in previous departments!
"We've been doing hacks and tricks for years but now we'll be able to do things we've been wanting to do for a long time" Carmack said. "For instance every light has its own highlight and every surface casts a shadow like in the real world". "Everything can behave the same now and we can apply effects for every pixel."
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| | Dark_Fox
fox10001@yahoo.com
§Darkness§
|  "Re(5):Doom's AI"
, posted Mon 14 May 05:40
Children, we can suck laterz =P
You can hit my duck bitch becuase I will plug your ass with him! His has plugged over 5000 newbie asses including several repeat customers since he was brought in from the projects. The pond complex.
Look fer the duck with the white fur coat and the pimp kane..
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| Dark_Fox
fox10001@yahoo.com
§Darkness§
| "Re(1):Doom's AI" , posted Sun 13 May 10:22:
Personally I believe if Carmack and Co. put forth a real effort they could pull off a decent AI script.. but that still uncharted territory for the 3D god.. If they could topple UT's awesome AI, I would truely bow down and pay homage.. =P
You can hit my duck bitch becuase I will plug your ass with him! His has plugged over 5000 newbie asses including several repeat customers since he was brought in from the projects. The pond complex.
Look fer the duck with the white fur coat and the pimp kane..
[this message was edited by Dark_Fox on Sun 13 May 10:23] |
| | nightmare imp
nightmare_limbo@hotmail.com
| "Re(2):Doom's AI" , posted Sun 13 May 10:45
The same here,I think they can do it and still do a good job and they probarbly will.I believe they can pull it off easily if they put there heart and souls into it(no pun intended).
If they do that would be awsome,if they dont that would be awsome,as long as DOOM3 is out and here for a true DOOMER such as me and many others at this forum and elsewhere.
"Excuse me is that a plasma riffle in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
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