Original message
| Arch-Angel
dai_san57@hotmail.com
|  "The demon horde"
, posted Tue 29 May 04:28:  
More towards Zaldron and Dima but anyone can bog on in. I still play doom over the quakes for 2 resons. One - cruddy computer :) Two - hordes, utter hordes of monsters. Is it looking like the doom engine will support this sort if thing? Would they have to down size the poly count on a few monsters in favour of having utter hordes of them? Do you feel this is a valid point???
I swear! The BFG went off all by itself!!
[this message was edited by Arch-Angel on Tue 29 May 04:33] |
| Replies:
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| Zaldron
Le Ventilateur 
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(1):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 15:03
Well, I'm pretty sure then engine is able to render hundreds of monsters at the same time. It's the hardware were things get tricky.
While T&L can help in this issue, by computing the large polycounts, there's still a complex lighting pipeline to render and a crap load of textures to put in scene. Add the AI that will consume the spare CPU pretty quick and you have an idea.
As every game out there, having 16 guys in front of you will be possible and playable. But I don't know if the GeForce3 will be enough. The problem here is the framerate.
If you have 35 fps, you're in heaven, UNLESS you change the amount of polys/texels to render. People look for video cards that spit 120 fps so they can resist the slowdowns withouth going under 60 fps.
I'll say a GeForce3 won't be the hardcore multiplayer gamer's choice, but the minimum PLAYABLE requirement.
If id's aiming for GF3 as a good standard, then it is obvious that we won't be seeing many monsters at the time. Remember Quake 1, where there was max 5 or 6 guys at the same time. Anyway, that was hard as hell, since their tactics/AI/stats were a lot harder than DooM's enemies. Expect the same to happen again.
Now, id can choose 2 options. Or they go for a more "slow" pace and super-mega-sharp AI, or they use a pretty good AI and a "continuos flow" of enemies. Instead of presenting the 30 guys at the same time, they come from 3 to 3, just like you can experience in AvP.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| DooMBoy
tallj_2000@yahoo.com
287657894
| "Re(1):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 13:35
I'll miss the rush you get when taking on 3 Demons, 2 Imps, and 5 Shotgun Guys, but I suppose it'll be all for the best. The technology would be enough to slow down anybody's computer, so imagine what it'll be like when you're taking on 18 bad guys. The frame rate would slow to a crawl, and the game would be virtually unplayable. Like I said, it's all for the best.
The truth is I only play Doom two times a day-daytime and nighttime!-DooMBoy
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| doomsick
doomsick@yahoo.com
| "Re(1):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 10:05
i'll miss the hordes...*sniffle*
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| Dima
alexsok@netvision.net.il
77090113
| "Re(1):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 05:59:
Jim Dose said the following in the interview with Daily Radar:
"It's too early to say, but considering that we're going for much higher detail characters, as well as a highly detailed and dynamic environment, you can probably draw your own conclusions."
It's obvious that there WON'T be hordes of monsters in the new doom game and honestly, I think the game will be much better this way.
Did you see the MacWorld new doom demonstration?
The characters are amazingly detailed and feature real time bumpmapping together with real time shadows and tons of other new stuff.
I won't even go to the dynamic enviroments...
Can you imagine the slowdown that would accur if you put even 8 enemies on screen at once?!?
The tech in Doom is really revolutionary and was not developed by John for the purpose you suggested.
You can expect 4-5 enemies on screen at once, max.
I would suggest you to buy Serious Sam, it has nice graphics and HORDES AND HORDES of enemies (I won't give you the number, it will scare you).
It is a really nice game and I enjoyed it from the start till the end.
P.S
You seem to be very intrested in technological aspects of engines...
I would recommend you to read Zaldron's New Doom Engine article as it gives a good example of the technology new doom is powered by.
It is located on Lord FlatHead's site under the articles section.
The link is:
http://lordflathead.doomcenter.com
"We've been doing hacks and tricks for years but now we'll be able to do things we've been wanting to do for a long time" Carmack said. "For instance every light has its own highlight and every surface casts a shadow like in the real world". "Everything can behave the same now and we can apply effects for every pixel."
[this message was edited by Dima on Tue 29 May 06:10] |
| | Castlevania
gldoom@hotmail.com
8752042
| "oh GET FUCKING REAL" , posted Mon 4 Jun 18:13
i know where your coming from, man :), but it isn't just the video card, they can make CPU's with mad 3d instructions to speed things up, who knows what new gadgets will have during the time of doom 3's development :]
Umm...Asian women are hot babes!
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| | Arch-Angel
dai_san57@hotmail.com
| "Re(2):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 06:14
Dima : was that the demo showing off the GeForce3? firstly my god what a peace of hardware but 4 or 5 enemies max? are you serious? I would have thought it would be good for at least 8 which is sort of a multiplayer number from Q3Arena... As for the detail. Surely you would rather more nasties on screen then seeing if they are smiling or frowning or frothing? For npc's its all part of it but the nasties? Gimmie shotty fodder anyday - even if they are smart as hell.
Also on a slight side note - has anyone heard of a game that was in developement called "prey" or did my mind make the whole thing up?
I swear! The BFG went off all by itself!!
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| | Dima
alexsok@netvision.net.il
77090113
| "Re(3):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 06:25
Yes, I was referring to the GeForce 3 Demo.
Yes, 4-5 max.
Last time I heard of Prey, it was still in development and was supposed to ship 8 months after Duke Nukem Forever's release.
"We've been doing hacks and tricks for years but now we'll be able to do things we've been wanting to do for a long time" Carmack said. "For instance every light has its own highlight and every surface casts a shadow like in the real world". "Everything can behave the same now and we can apply effects for every pixel."
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| | Windowpain
mseb@wwdb.org
| "Re(4):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 10:28
quote:
Yes, 4-5 max.
...
Yeah, I do think you're right, but it is a shame. 4-5 monsters is Quake, not DooM.
I'm not anti newbie. I'm anti stupid newbie.
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| | Disorder
WAHH CHANGE MY TITLE 
enter@softhome.net
27436321
| "Re(5):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 13:19
Dammit... 4-5? DAMMIT
That really IS a shame. Say what you want, but loads of people like Doom because of the hordes of enemies. Maybe, when Doom3 comes out, the game will rock so hard, that it won't matter anymore.. but I doubt it.
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| | Zaldron
Le Ventilateur
avengerz66@hotmail.com
18477495
| "Re(6):The demon horde" , posted Tue 29 May 19:02
I can live without hordes. They're pretty boring to me. It's just a lot of circular strafe and continuos gunfire.
__________________________ _ _ _
"There are three kinds of death in this world. There's heart death there's brain death and there's being off the network."
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| | geekmarine
cooljohn@birdmail.com
73147121
| "Re(7):The demon horde" , posted Fri 1 Jun 12:17
You've got a point there, hordes do tend to get rather boring. I'd rather have one or two monsters jump out from the shadows and scare the hell out of me than mow down hundreds upon hundreds of brainless zombies.
========================================
"They put doom maps in cereal?"
-Duke Nukem
Your BFG and Megasphere are no match for my puny pistol and lack of armor.
http://www.johnsweirdstuff.com
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| | Diego
ConCarne@gmx.de
| "Re(7):The demon horde" , posted Thu 31 May 08:45
Well, I also think hordes won't work out. Not only a cause de hardware restrictions (as if there will be any), but simply because of the project itself.
Didn't they say, they wanted to produce an almost film-like experience? I don't think that kazillions of monsters will make it cut. You can't compare slow suspense to simple shock effects. But Serious Sam really is a great game if You like many enemies.
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