Original message
| fragg
 |  "Finally solved the problem of "ghost walls""
, posted Thu 18 Jan 11:18:  
I have a square Sector (9088 square). It's a huge "Wolfnstn-style" courtyard, 352-ht Sky text, blue ZZdoom walls, 0-ht flr.
In it's center is a fancy Wolfnstn-style bldg (w/same flr ht, same 352-ht Sky text, different wall textures).
QUESTION:
Is a SINGLE-SECTOR 9088x9088 Courtyard "too big" for Wauthor or D2 engine? Reason I ask, is I'm getting a wierd "ghost wall" in all 4 "far corners" of Courtyard. I tried solutions, but no luck.
Here's what happens......
Wauthor says "OK", so I fire up engine, and wake up in bldg. I exit bldg and wander around under its huge overhang, checking out pillars, etc. All looks OK.
I look outside across open courtyard, to walls in far distance. All looks OK there (North, East, South, West).
I wander all around big courtyard (as far out as maybe 3/4 of the way) looking at things from every angle. All looks OK.
I begin walking BACKWARDS (towards far NE corner of courtyard) at same time watching. All looks OK.
Just as I get ALMOST into far corner -- a blue wall appears out of thin air (an exact duplicate of the blue walls surrounding the whole Courtyard).
I never see this wierd effect if I'm walking FORWARD towards any of the 4 far corners.
Only, when I walk backwards, facing the bldg (which is in exact center of Courtyard) .... and even then, I ONLY see it when I get far out into Courtyard, near one of the 4 corners.
If I begin walking forward towards the "ghost wall", when I get close it disappears. Wierd.
I wonder if I should shrink the Courtyard's size somewhat (maybe the single-sector Courtyard is bigger than Wauthor or D2 engines can easily handle).
Any "Ghost-Busters" in this forum? The Courtyard's haunted!
fragg
[this message was edited by fragg on Sat 20 Jan 01:06] |
| Replies:
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| Wildman
rickclark@rickclark.20m.com
|  "Re(1):Sector"
, posted Thu 18 Jan 17:55
Sounds like this is the "long wall" error you get when a line def is too long. You may be able to correct by just splitting the linedef into smaller segments. You should keep the size of the lines to 1024 for best results.
http://rickclark.20m.com/
ZDoom Tech Page: http://zdoom.notgod.com/zdhtech/
My eMatter: http://www.themestream.com/authors/313022.html
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| | fragg
|  "Re(2):Sector"
, posted Thu 18 Jan 18:38:
Wildman: I replied to Rex before I saw your post.
Thanx for info.
I'm gonna mess around some more with this Sector size --- I'm in no hurry, the problem's intriguing and I'm learning by doing.
And will try all suggestions given.
Thanks again to you both.
fragg.
[this message was edited by fragg on Fri 19 Jan 15:06] |
| ReX
gurkha_boy@yahoo.com
| "Re(1):Sector" , posted Thu 18 Jan 12:30
I might be wrong, but it appears that you have a texture bleeding problem. In other words, one of the textures in your level is "bleeding" into or appearing in another part of the level. I had the same problem in a massive level that I created (complex.wad) and could not get rid of it completely. Subsequently, I've had texture bleeding on a small scale in other levels. Two things seem to help. One, create a sector in the direction of your ghost wall (i.e., somewhere between the player position from which the ghost wall is visible and the main building in the center). The sector must have a height, preferably equivalent to or greater than your ghost wall. (A pillar would also work.) This often takes care of the problem, but may not always be desirable because it may alter your map design. Two, adjust the corners (vertex positions) of the central building and/or the wall behind. If it will not screw up your map design, move them a reasonable distance (e.g., 64). I have found that minor texture bleeding can be removed by moving the vertices as little as 2 units. (Thanks to Rick Clark for pointing that out in his tutorial on texture bleeding with polyobjects. I discovered this trick works even when polyobjects are not the source of the problem.) Hope this helps.
Only two things are certain: DooM and taxes
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| | fragg
| "Re(2):Sector" , posted Thu 18 Jan 17:53:
Thanx for info.
Here's what I did (just prior, to reading your Reply).....
I suspected the trouble "MIGHT lie in those 4 corners" (since it shows nowhere else) and decided to delete all 4 corners.
Since that big Sector was a perfect 9088x9088 square, I split "all 4 sides" ... three times.
That, allowed deleting equal-size "wall chunks" at each corner.
Now, the building was surrounded by 4 (far away) identical-sized hunks of Wall (1 to N., 1 S., 1 E., 1 W.). And each hunk was identical-distance from center of bldg.
Taking out the "4 corners" had reduced remaining wall-lengths a bit too much. So I increased lengths from 4000 to 6000. Then dragged the walls together, then joined vertex's.
The building was now surrounded by perfect 6000x6000 square sector. Then, fired up game and "ghost" was gone.
Next I might slowly "incrementally-increase" Sector size (up towards orig 9000) and see if ghost re-appears.
If it does, then IYO which is likely culprit?
"Texture bleeding"?
"Left-over, invisible, Editing-debris"?
"Big 9000x9000 single-sector is overloading D2 engine"?
fragg
[this message was edited by fragg on Thu 18 Jan 18:03] |
| | fragg
| ""A possible answer???"" , posted Fri 19 Jan 16:39
"UPDATE" (this Thread has been renamed).......
I continued messing with the original 9088x9088 Sector (which consisted of four "9088-long" linedefs). As you know, it had "ghost walls" in all 4 corners. As you also know, when I changed Sector size to 6000x6000, the ghosts disappeared.
Next, I increased Sector size back up to 9088x9088 and split the linedefs on all 4 walls into many "512-long" linedefs (hoping shorter linedefs would keep ghosts away). No dice. The "Ghosts" returned to the 4 corners.
So, decided not to "scale-up" an existing Sector (as I did with above 9088 Sector) but have WadAuthor build a 9088 sector right from scratch. I hit "make new sector" button, chose 9088 (both length n' width).
But WadAuthor flashed notice: "Must be 2 Min / 8192 Max".
Hmmm, perhaps this was one cause, maybe even main cause, of my ghost walls. I was editing a Sector whose size exceeded Wauthor's ability to flawlessly handle it.
fragg
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| | FRAGG
| "SUCCESS!!" , posted Sat 20 Jan 01:59:
Final "update" on Ghosts......
I re-sized the Big Sector to 8064x8064 (just under, "Max Sector-size" that WadAuthor is capable of building).
Fired up game, and ghosts are permanently gone.
Thank you both (Wildman n' ReX) for ideas that jogged my thinking, got me going in right direction.
I'll leave this Thread here to help any Wad-builders who run into this "Ghosts in Huge Single Sector" problem --- and are looking for some solutions.
One solution, is:
When building a Wad (using WadAuthor) if you want to "scale up" (increase the size) of ONE Sector --- DON'T increase any of the Sector's sides to a length GREATER than the "max size" WadAuthor builds a sector. (The Maximum-size sector that WadAuthor can build, has linedefs 8192 long).
If you make the length of ANY of your Sector's sides GREATER than 8192 --- "ghost walls" (or other ghost objects) might start showing up in that Sector. If they do, decrease that "illegal" side's length to 8064 or less.
FRAGG
[this message was edited by FRAGG on Sat 20 Jan 03:07] |
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