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glaber
Junior Member


Posts: 117
Registered: 02-08


Total Status: Ready for testing%
Old status of the map: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...er/doom/gb6.png

<skippable>
You're probably wondering why I'm calling the level Glaber Base 6. If you not you can skip this paragraph. This map is the 6th level to carry the Glaber base name. The first 2 were custom levels in Mega man Powered Up, and the other 3 were made or is currently being made for SRB2.
</skippable>

The next part is all about this map.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0001.png
The starting chamber. Considering it's map 16, I figure you'd better have a shotgun by now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0002.png
A bit of a Crate maze here in the garage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0004.png
Near the Garage door. The exit is not through that slime pit where the Cacodeamon is.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0005.png
In the room where you get the blue key after picking up the key.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0007.png
Inside the room you need the blue key for.

Last edited by glaber on 07-12-09 at 21:16

Old Post 06-15-08 23:18 #
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Butts
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Posts: 1491
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i strongly suggest you replace that white/green cement texture with a different texture. the cement texture itself is pretty bad, and the way you utilize it does not accentuate the textures usefulness.

keep working, shows promise.

Old Post 06-16-08 06:44 #
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Dreadopp
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Posts: 460
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Looks pretty good so far, but I think that some of the rooms (especially the room in the last shot) are a bit flat. You should put some height variations in. (That is, if you haven't plan out the details already.)

Old Post 06-16-08 08:25 #
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Dutch Doomer
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I like what you did with the crates, using alot of different sizes and textures for those crates.It could use more smaller crates everywhere.I see some texture misalignments in the top screen around the computer panel, also in the same shot imo FLAT20 doesn't look very good on an large surface.

Keep going looking good so far.

Old Post 06-16-08 18:13 #
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glaber
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Posts: 117
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New pictures
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0009.png
Shipping and Recieving had it's wall texture changed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0019.png
Height corrections in the first room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0008.png
a view of the blue key area from below

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0011.png
The blue room again with a few changes. (actual progress has the floor under the computers higher by 8 units)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0017.png
A switch puzzle like what you might of found in classic DOS games

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../DOOM0018-1.png
The actual doors affected by the puzzle

Last edited by glaber on 07-12-09 at 21:17

Old Post 06-17-08 21:54 #
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printz
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Butts said:
i strongly suggest you replace that white/green cement texture with a different texture.
Green? What green? The CEMENT textures are just dirty white. And they go just fine, because I think they were designed for crate rooms; see the original E2M2 and MAP13. If anything, the decorative CEMENT textures, especially those two introduced in Doom 2, remind me of subways.

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Old Post 06-18-08 13:19 #
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glaber
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0025.png
The actual progress of the room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0026.png
Wall oppens after hitting a switch in the blue key room.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v.../DOOM0021-1.png
Inspired by the alpha version of E1M2

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0031.png
An Expermential Time portal room

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0027.png
I'd like to see you survive this onslaught from this end with out this secret.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0023.png
The destination of the time portal. Like I said, it's experimental.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0029.png
one bit of the Wolfenstine area.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0032.png
another bit of the Wolf3D area.

Status has been updated in the first post.

Last edited by glaber on 07-12-09 at 21:19

Old Post 06-22-08 01:57 #
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master lockwolf
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IMO, the Wolfenstein area makes me kinda lose interest in the map. It would make me wonder what the fuck I'm playing then walk away and never touch the rest of the wad. I would suggest changing the Wolfenstein section to a hellish section.

Old Post 06-22-08 06:50 #
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glaber
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Well considering that it's the destination of the time portal I'd have to see what the others think about the section before I change it. I also have the Wolfenstine SS teleporting in to the time portal chamber.

Edit: No other complaints about the Wolfenstine section?

Last edited by glaber on 06-30-08 at 21:19

Old Post 06-22-08 18:18 #
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Christoph
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I personally kinda like Wolfenstien areas (I did throw in a few SS Nazis on my first public map), as long as they are decently made . However I know that most people don't like them, as they are almost like a completely different game (ie Wolfenstein) and probably looks less realistic and too square. If you really want to do that I have no problems as long as integrates interestingly with the rest of the map (like you find a secret key or switch there that does something elsewhere) but otherwise it could offend a lot of people simply because it's not "doom" enough.

Another texture/mapping tip in general is to never have too large of an unbroken surface, be it wall or floor, because it just looks too bland and repetitive and flat.

In and near the blue key room, the ceilings with lights look like they need improvement. For one thing, always try to avoid having any kind of square-ish (light) texture broken off at an uneven wall or door (match it with the 64 or 32 grid), and for another it's better to use lights a little more sparingly. Better yet is to make them interesting by varying the ceiling height of the lights, or using creative textures to make a previously uncreated kind of light fixture. For now I recommend just using the textures that are there and adding some variation to break up the repetitive monotony, for instance making squares 32x32 or 64x64 hanging down 8 pixels from the ceiling, or just having a few lights surrounded by a blanker ceiling that matches that of the lights.

Good job with textures alignments though, and trying to make a creative map! Keep at it!

Old Post 07-25-08 20:27 #
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glaber
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Posts: 117
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Update: This time, instead of some screen shots I decided to do a video.

Link to video is as follows: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7BwXVZcKQA

Last edited by glaber on 08-07-08 at 06:05

Old Post 08-07-08 01:15 #
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glaber
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New screens:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0047.png I decided to change the celing to the sky texture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0050.png
NEDM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0051.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0058.png
The final room.

Germany version (If allowed)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0053.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0057.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0056.png

Last edited by glaber on 07-11-09 at 21:21

Old Post 08-27-08 21:17 #
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Use3D
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Keep the wolf section. it's your map.

Old Post 08-27-08 21:36 #
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Xenaero
Not DD_133


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This looks pretty fun.

Old Post 08-27-08 21:44 #
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glaber
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Posts: 117
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Use3D said:
Keep the wolf section. it's your map.


Ok, I'll just release the Germany friendly* version later then.

[*doesn't that sound odd for a doom level]

Old Post 08-28-08 03:10 #
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justanotherfool
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Posts: 200
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Glaber, I recorded a demo for your map. I have quite a lot to say about this one.

I feel that it's mostly fine in terms of gameplay and layout, but you need to add some detailing and height variations, because at the moment it looks flat and ugly (a few nice rooms). Everything is square and I didn't like some of the textures you used here at all. The ceiling with the red lights that's visible in some of your screenshots looks terrible on its own. Ideally that kind of texture should be used much more sparingly. I feel that you also used computer console textures too much. The pillars were overused as well, in my opinion.

The crate maze is mostly good, but the slime area at the end with the rocket launcher doesn't really fit as it is at the moment. What is that sludge platform in the middle supposed to be, for example? A nicer way to do it would be to make a hole in the wall of the crate maze room going into a pipe which leads to the slime area with the RL, although that might be excessive if you're new to mapping.

The outdoor areas aren't too bad, perhaps a bit bland still. I don't like your use of that switch texture in a lot of places. Particularly in the area with the door puzzle the switches look ugly, so you may want to do something with them.

I did like the time portal idea a lot, but the wolf section of the level is particularly blocky. This tends to be a problem with wolf textures, but I'm sure you can fix that with a bit of thought.

Something that you should really change is the area of the map at the end that takes the form of a sequence of letters. This is really jarring both in game and on the map. The arena at the end looked bad as well, for some reason, but that was probably the texturing and the door that was situated on one of the corners of the star. It would look better if it was straight.

Some of the secret areas are ugly on the inside (particularly the first one) and I don't think you should use misaligned textures to indicate the presence of a secret. Use an aligned texture that is different to the ones on the walls around it (but make sure it fits visually). There are a few HOMs in the map. One where the commander keen should be (I couldn't kill it!), one in the BFG secret and one in each of the rooms leading just before and just after the wolf area (if you hit the appropriate switches).

I could probably go on and on and on about the appearance of the map. Almost every part of it could do with some more work. It's not like you need to start again, just put some time into aesthetics and it'll be fine.

Now onto gameplay. I quite liked the gameplay here, but felt that it was far too easy. I don't know if I'm representative of the casual doomer, but even on UV it's hard to die. Every time you come up against a tough opponent you have enough cells to BFG it easily. Maybe you should move the BFG so you don't get it until near the end of the level or remove it altogether. You could increase the level of opposition or add some tougher ambushes. I feel the invulnerability is unnecessary too. I make use of it in the demo, but clearing out the horde with the SSG by standing at the door isn't too tricky. Finally, put the nazis that teleport into the room before the wolf area somewhere else, since waiting for them all to teleport in isn't very fun and their presence is pointless if you can just teleport into the wolf area leaving them behind.

Anyway, the map definitely has potential, so keep working at it. I'm sorry that I don't have more in the way of constructive comments to offer, but hopefully some other member of the project will be able to give you more specific advice on what you can do to make it look better. I'll be interested to hear what the other testers have to say.

Here's the link to the demo, by the way..
http://rapidshare.com/files/1461018...ax-744.zip.html

Old Post 09-17-08 19:17 #
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glaber
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I currently have sent in 2 versions to the first two testers on the beta testers list.

Old Post 11-27-08 06:34 #
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justanotherfool
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Okay, glaber, I've gone over the updated version and there's still a lot to be said. Sorry for keeping you waiting.

I've verified that 100% kills and secrets are possible, which is always a good thing.

Let me also say that I noticed you responded to some of the suggestions in my last post, and I feel that the level is a little better because of it. Most noticeable was the absence of the invulnerability in the red key area (good, because it made it trivially easy), the absence of the BFG, the vent in the crate area and of course the removal of the NEDM area (much better off without this, trust me). The level is a bit more difficult now.

I tried running your wad without the texture pack, and there were no missing textures. When I played it using the texture pack, there were missing textures in the areas I noticed the first time around. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but sort it out if you can.

I have a few more adjustments to suggest before I get to the crux of the matter of improving the level. In the area leading to the time portal a bunch of nazis teleport in. I think that bit would play better if you moved them to the "time shift" zone, since at the moment you have to stand around waiting for them all to teleport in one at a time, which is boring.

The switch puzzle is very tedious sometimes. I've played through the map enough to more or less remember where the relevant switches are, but it's still easy to hit the wrong one and then have to find the switch which opens the door again, because all the switches look the same and there's nothing to distinguish them. This could be improved by marking the switches somehow. I suggest placing a small coloured 'box' on top of each switch's computer panel so that you can tell them apart.

Unfortunately, the level's main problem is still very much in evidence. It still looks bad. Your choice of textures is often questionable, your rooms are generally boring and plain (boxlike more often than not) and you make excessive use of sprites as opposed to carving out new sectors to make your rooms prettier. There are texture misalignments, your doors are too thick, I could go on and on...

It looks like you have two choices.

1. Don't submit the map yet. Go and put in some detail and get rid of the various visual quirks until it looks a lot better. We don't require Tormentor667 levels of detail here, but the map needs to look good. Play some good-looking maps to get an idea of little tricks you can use to improve the looks.

2. Submit it. I seem to recall that TGH modified a few of the maps in CC3 to make them look better, and he'll probably do the same for this map, since I don't see him wanting to leave it as it is. The map is basically sound and should turn out well once TGH has had a look at it.

If you want to hold it back and improve it yourself, I'll come up with a list of things that should be changed and some ideas on what you can do to make it look better. I'd prefer not to do this if you want to submit the map as it is, since it will require me to do a lot of writing and take a lot of screenshots, so please let me know what you intend to do.

EDIT: I would really welcome some input from beta testers here. If you think I'm being a little too harsh, particularly, please say something.

Last edited by justanotherfool on 11-28-08 at 23:42

Old Post 11-28-08 23:15 #
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glaber
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You know what, go ahead and tell me the areas. But if the Wolfenstine area is included, remember it is a time travel segment and there was nothing against using the D2 Wolfenstine stuff in the rules.

Last edited by glaber on 11-28-08 at 23:52

Old Post 11-28-08 23:23 #
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justanotherfool
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Anima Zero seems to be the only other beta tester who's currently available. Maybe he was the other person you sent the map to?

Perhaps a few of the mappers would also be willing to give it a look. Anybody?

Old Post 11-28-08 23:40 #
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glaber
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I just sent the map to the others

Old Post 11-28-08 23:53 #
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justanotherfool
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Okay, I'll see what I can come up with regarding improvements. Might take me a while to get back to you though.

I don't have any problems with the presence of the Wolf area, but it could look much better. At the moment it looks *too* much like Wolf 3D. Check out 1monster map 31, it might give you some ideas.

Old Post 11-28-08 23:55 #
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glaber
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Looks like JAF is the only one reviewing my stage. So I guess his is the only criticism I have to act on.

Old Post 12-29-08 03:17 #
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glaber
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Update!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0069.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0070.png Doors are now synced
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0067.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0074.png "Hell Hole"?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0071.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0072.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0064.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...om/DOOM0068.png

Last edited by glaber on 07-11-09 at 21:23

Old Post 03-30-09 21:40 #
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Alice Jameson
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Just checked out the screenshots. Looks much better compared to previous screenshots you took. I'd like to test it and see what the rest looks like. If it's ready for testing anyway. So send me the file. ^^ (Beta Tester)

Last edited by Alice Jameson on 04-14-09 at 18:41

Old Post 04-06-09 22:12 #
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scorpion
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glaber said:
Looks like JAF is the only one reviewing my stage. So I guess his is the only criticism I have to act on.


justanotherfool
Anima Zero seems to be the only other beta tester who's currently available.

Please send the file to me as well, for testing.

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Old Post 04-14-09 05:17 #
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glaber
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PMs have been sent

Old Post 04-17-09 03:26 #
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Alice Jameson
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Just got done playing it through. And I pretty much have the same views as justanotherfool. The first thing I noticed was some texture misallignments. And the boxy room thing. But yeah I don't realy have much to add. I'll go through it again and either post or PM you changes I think should be made in a little bit of detail...

Old Post 04-23-09 19:16 #
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glaber
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No new feed back from the testers yet. Might just send the level in as final soon by next week Saturday if still nothing.

Old Post 07-08-09 23:40 #
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justanotherfool
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I finally got around to looking at your updated version, glaber. Looks like you've made some steps in the right direction, but there's still some way to go if you don't want the map to look dated.

There are still too many areas where the floor, ceiling and walls are almost entirely bare, and there isn't much variation in sector heights.

The hell area you added to the Wolf part of the map was a nice touch, but the hallways themselves still look almost entirely like something out of Wolf 3D (i.e incredibly blocky).

The other big problem is that some of the textures don't really work. Some textures are simple enough that you can use them on a large expanse of wall without the result being painful to look at, and some aren't. There also isn't enough variation in textures used. Take the outdoor area with the guard tower, for example. You textured the guard tower in exactly the same way as the building beside it, where it might have been more interesting if the tower had been made to look distinct in some way.

I don't have the time to comment on every room, but my advice is to play some tech base maps that you've enjoyed and try to get some ideas involving visuals from them.

And the switch puzzle is terribly frustrating.

I still think you have the makings of a nice map there, so don't get disheartened.

Old Post 07-11-09 00:32 #
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