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TheMionicDonut
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Community Chest 4: Map 01
Graveyard Shift
Status: Complete and being Tested potentially as you read this!

Current stats (Thanks to Aleaver for idea)
Total Percentage complete: 100% (Beta testing)
Vertices: 2589
Linedefs: 2912
Sidedefs: 4702
Sectors: 670
Things: 368


The theme I wish to go for is a haunting experience to kick off the CC4 saga, From the first demonic encounter to the moment you walk through the gate into the second level, I want the victim to feel a little on edge and wary...so I opted to not include any weapons higher that a pistol for this map. and ammo will be scarce as [insert any vulgar word here] In fact i daresay you will only start with the 50 bullets that begin the game. (and those may very well be gone before you even reach the chainsaw).

The theme itself will start in a laboratory and then go into a gloomy techbase

Screenshots
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1731/screenshotdoom200806211bx3.th.png
A shot very early in the level.
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3435/screenshotdoom200807062ap5.th.png
Hey look, an item need to progress in the level, and its sitting in an EMPTY ROOM!
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8276/screenshotdoom200807181iu9.th.png
What the blue key unlocks...the great crate maze!
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/8968/screenshotdoom200806211go2.th.png
I'll leave it up to you to decide whether that armor is a trap or not.

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 08-08-08 at 01:52

Old Post 06-21-08 17:34 #
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printz
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Will there be any caco or rev lumberjacking? Will the level be cramped and maze-like to make the player comfortable with their chainsaw? Or rather open like crazy hell? I would suggest for a bit of open.

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Old Post 06-21-08 19:46 #
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esselfortium
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printz said:
Will there be any caco or rev lumberjacking? Will the level be cramped and maze-like to make the player comfortable with their chainsaw?

Printz, none of that sounds like it would be very fun at all, especially for map01.

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Old Post 06-21-08 19:50 #
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printz
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Alright, how is it supposed to be then? I think that having to chainsaw revenants adds to the risk.

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Old Post 06-21-08 20:03 #
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Death-Destiny
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Chainsawwing revenants tends not to be an optimal way to deal with them, so if such fights were included, they may want to be scarce depending on the style of the map. I think one could set up some interesting scenarios with chainsawwing cacodemon/pain elemental swarms. Of course, bulldemons and specters are as fun as always to chsinsaw too. I guess the "no advanced weapons" vibe means shotgunners and chaingunners cannot be used except in inaccessinle locations, however.

Old Post 06-21-08 23:07 #
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TheMionicDonut
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I have no intention of using any types of zombies, as even former humans drop clips :) I'm just that kind of a jackass.

EDIT: a few screenshots at the top

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 06-22-08 at 01:09

Old Post 06-21-08 23:19 #
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TheMionicDonut
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New Screenshot kiddies!

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3435/screenshotdoom200807062ap5.th.png

Oh BOY! A seemingly empty room with a key in it. It would really SUCK if you got ambushed by demons.

Edit: last screenie had "logic error"

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 07-07-08 at 04:22

Old Post 07-07-08 01:01 #
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Use3D
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Graveyard Shift is a better name. I like the screens so far too.

Old Post 07-07-08 05:35 #
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Creaphis
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TheMionicDonut said:
It would really SUCK if you got ambushed by demons.


Yeah, but that probably wouldn't happen, right?

Old Post 07-07-08 11:09 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Chainsaw/berserk maps and pistol-only maps are fun, I made a couple myself years ago.

Old Post 07-07-08 17:32 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Since i cant seem to get DoomBuilder running on this comp I will answer the questions asked in this thread


printz said:
Will there be any caco or rev lumberjacking?


Yes.


printz said:
Will the level be cramped and maze-like to make the player comfortable with their chainsaw? Or rather open like crazy hell?


It will have parts of each. It will MOSTLY be the cramped style that I do better, but the finale I have in mind will be pretty open. (Though I havent done any work on that part yet) Rest assured this map is guaranteed* to have everything a chainsaw wielding psycho could hope for.

*Not an actual guarantee


Creaphis said:
Yeah, but that probably wouldn't happen, right?


Of course it would. Next Question.


Use3D said:
Graveyard Shift is a better name.


I'll keep it on the list then :)

Old Post 07-10-08 15:42 #
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TheMionicDonut
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A wild SCREENSHOT appears

*EDIT* The wild SCREENSHOT fled!

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 08-08-08 at 01:53

Old Post 07-14-08 08:31 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Are YOU ready for the great crate maze?

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8276/screenshotdoom200807181iu9.th.png

Its ready for you!

Old Post 07-18-08 21:15 #
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Death-Destiny
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Yes!!! Crate maze! Awesome!

Clichéd or not, crate mazes are one of my favorite Doom constructs. Now you've got me looking forward to this quite a bit. =)

Old Post 07-18-08 22:24 #
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Aleaver
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Death-Destiny said:
Yes!!! Crate maze! Awesome!

Clichéd or not, crate mazes are one of my favorite Doom constructs. Now you've got me looking forward to this quite a bit. =)



Indeed, I always liked e2m2!

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Old Post 07-19-08 00:00 #
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Anima Zero
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Since you preferred the results be posted in this thread, here they are.

Did a runthrough of the map. Gotta say it's fairly difficult because revenant chainsawing is always risky. Either you get away unharmed or get beaten ten times over.

Gameplay-wise, the 1st secret can be easily missable as the trigger line to open the secret up is very near the teleport to the next part of the level and, as far as I know, there's no way back once you teleport. I'd suggest moving the trigger line back enough so that one has enough time to hear the sound of something moving behind them so they can go back and check what it is.

That or place a teleporter somewhere that brings one back to the start. The first suggestion seems like it'd be the better of the two choices though, but I thought I'd post both my ideas.

Secondly, it's possible to skip the trap at the BK if you just inch forward enough slowly to grab the key. You could then come back when you have some armor or whatever and handle the enemies more easily.

Finally, it seems the exit is broken and doesn't work. I tried several times to go through it, but no luck.

4 of 5 secrets found. Wasn't able to find it (or if it's possible to reach), but I was more focused on how the level looked and the difficulty of it.

Speaking of which, I liked the look of the level. The gloomy, dark feel to the level and the fact you don't know what might suddenly pop up and ambush you keeps you alert at all times.

I found two misaligned textures, both on the western side of the map where the YK is needed. They're not hard to spot as you can notice them just simply running down the hallway there.

I can always take some pics if you'd like of them.

Overall, I thought the map was quite fun to play through. Nothing really felt like it was too difficult or insanely luck based to handle.

Old Post 07-28-08 16:02 #
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TheMionicDonut
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All 5 secrets are completely reachable, can you PM me with the locations of the 4 you DID find. There is one thats extra tough with a less obvious sign, but the reward behind it is greater

Old Post 07-28-08 23:07 #
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justanotherfool
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MD,
I've just been playing your level and I thought I'd stop by here and share my thoughts. Got quite a lot to say, I think, so it may be rather disjointed...

That cacodemon (UV) in the first passage is extremely annoying. There isn't any room to manouevre inside the cac's corridor, so you have to resort to firing a few shots then backing off when it looses a projectile. Killing relatively high HP creatures with a pistol is never entertaining, so I'd suggest changing this. Maybe you should place the chainsaw right at the beginning or just put something small like an imp there.
AZ already mentioned the fact that it's quite easy to teleport out of the starting area without getting the secret, but it bears repeating. Being able to teleport back to the start would work well.

The level looks pretty good as a whole, though I'm not sure I liked the texturing in the yellow key area (this is entirely subjective, of course). Even something as simple as raising the teleport pads above the surrounding floor and using a different metal texture in a few places in that room would be a big improvement, IMO.

I would say that the map as a whole is currently too difficult for a map 01 slot, although I did play on UV. Even when I knew where the revs were going to appear, I still got my arse kicked because they can punch you to death while you're chainsawing them. Rev punches are very powerful, too. It doesn't help that several of them appear right on top of you, and can punch you to death or do heavy damage immediately. Fighting a rev with chainsaw is risky enough even if you have the initiative. There are about 6 of them in the final area, and while you do at least have a berserk by this time, fighting 6 revs in a smallish arena is very dangerous. I also wonder how you expect players to deal with the two hellknights that they have to fight before they can get any of the berserk packs. HKs are even worse than revs with a chainsaw, I believe. I also don't like that imp on the crate in the crate maze, because it blocks your way onto the crate to fight it, and I didn't seem to be able to kill it from below.
I would suggest reducing the monster count and/or being a bit more sparing in the use of the bigger monsters.

I got 3 of the secrets the first time round, and used DB to locate the others. I managed to get the most obscure one (megaarmour) by myself, so I was quite pleased with that.. :)

Hmm. I can't currently think of anything else to say, but I did quite enjoy the map even if it was frustrating. Maybe that's just a matter of me not being as good as I think as I am, since AZ didn't have any problems with the difficulty. Guess we'll have to wait to see what the other testers make of it. I'll play it on a lower difficulty and see what I think then.

Old Post 07-31-08 00:39 #
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scorpion
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My apologies for the late reply, I'm doing my best to celebrate my holidays, but I found some time to play around a bit in your level.

I enjoyed playing it, and I like the way it looks, even though there are a few texture misalignments (I can provide screenshots if you wish), although I assume that the doors' DOORTRAK are supposed to move with the doors, since they do this throughout the map. I like the atmosphere you set in this map.

The gameplay is enjoyable, although a bit frustrating at times (outside the revenants in the tiny room with the blue key I mean, I get irritated by the constant sound of the chainsaw, I suppose I should just switch to the pea shooter when there are no monsters in sight). I especially enjoyed the crate hopping for the yellow key.

But, as some of my fellow forum members have stated more or less already, I do believe that this map is a bit hard for the MAP01 slot. Nerves shot to hell before arriving at MAP02.

I also noticed that there's not too much difference between the skill levels. I haven't opened your map in an editor, so it's quite possible that I've missed things (since, so far, I've only completed your map on the ITYTD skill level), but as far as I can tell, the skill level difference is mainly the cacodemons in the hallways, and the amount of pinkies in the blue key room (but, as I said, I haven't opened the map in an editor or finished your map on all skill levels).

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Old Post 08-07-08 08:18 #
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TheMionicDonut
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hmm, As much as I enjoy shooting nerves, I seem to be getting alot of this "OMG HARD MAP" business. I tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to make the easy level of monsters into the Medium (for the most part) but I am going to keep Hard mode exactly the way it is. When it says Ultra-Violence and Nightmare, that should be exactly what you get :P

It shouldn't take too long to modify for easy level.

In the meantime can you send some of those texture misalignment screenies please?

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 08-08-08 at 01:28

Old Post 08-07-08 21:03 #
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Death-Destiny
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CC4's maps are getting organized after all are submitted based on difficulty. If your map is really that "OMG HARD", then it will not be map01. If you really intend to use mapslot 01, your map can't be more difficult than the next 5. =/

Old Post 08-09-08 04:28 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Hard mode is of course hard because of the chainsaw only, but I hardly think that its any harder than map01 of CChest3 if you know how to use a chainsaw :P. I know if I get a slot other than 01 the map will not be played how its meant to be played. However due to these remarks from the Beta testers, I have made a new version with easy and medium modes a lot more *ahem* fitting to their names. I will send out this new version at the first available opportunity.

Old Post 08-09-08 20:09 #
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justanotherfool
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I had a look at the latest version of the map earlier on today, and I have more suggestions and comments. In no particular order...

1. The starting area is a lot better than it was, but I think things would be better if you removed one of the demons from the second room. Ammo tends to get a bit short here, and you're often reduced to having to punch an imp or demon, which is never fun. If you take one out, there'll be enough pistol ammo to kill everything at the start while leaving your pistol empty.

2. The blue key trap annoyed me at first but I grew to like it after repeated playing. I still think the first rev. might prove too frustrating for those who don't know it's there. Maybe have it appear outside fist range, since it can punch you before you've had a chance to react, unless you're expecting it. I'd like it if you moved the medkits into alcoves at the sides of the room or something similar. It's a good idea to always give the player the choice of taking a medkit or not, rather than placing it in such a way that they have to collect it to proceed. This also applies to the armour in the red key room and the medkit separating the two rooms in the yellow key area. The stimpacks help here, but not that much.

3. Please, please, please do something about the cacodemon in the crate maze room. It often refuses to fly down to a height where you can see it, making fighting it with the chainsaw a tricky prospect. Perhaps you could delay its appearance until you're walking along the top. This would give you a better chance of catching it with your chainsaw as well as increased movement options (which you don't really have at the moment since the spectres, rev, etc are alive and get in the way). I think I died more at the hands of that cacodemon than at any other point in the level today, though I did eventually figure out how to deal with it.

4. Not sure that I like the secrets in the yellow key area. I don't think it a good idea to make a wall texture that doesn't resemble a switch have the behaviour of a switch, and the switch next to the door as you come in is not at all obvious. It might be better if you hid a (real) switch somewhere to open the comp. map wall and made it so that the wall hiding the berserk pack in that room is a secret door. It's also easy to be trapped by the hell knights and pain elementals after taking the key, giving you very little chance of survival. Might be fairer if you put in a teleporter taking you to the hall (maybe on one of the lowering platforms).

I think that's about it for the comments. I also recorded a maxdemo using the latest beta. I'll probably record a better one when the map is done, but for now I just wanted to get out in one piece.

EDIT: Link here...
http://rapidshare.com/files/1400145...x-1607.zip.html

Old Post 08-25-08 16:35 #
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TheMionicDonut
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How do you view that type of file D:

Old Post 08-26-08 00:30 #
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Death-Destiny
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You run Boom, your map, and the demo all at once. An example is best here:

"C:\Ports\PrBoom V2.4.8.3\PrBoom V2.4.8.3.exe" "C:\EditingFolder\CC4_MioD.WAD" -playdemo "C:\DemoFolder\cc4miodmax-1607.lmp"

Notice the parameter "-playdemo" above. Run something like this, except with the proper file paths for your computer, of course.

Old Post 08-26-08 01:12 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Ah, no wonder i could run it before, i dont play with Boom :P. Well i got Boom and saw how the map went. The next version will probably have (Pardon the obvious joke) "Something Completely Different" behind the yellow door. It will probably have a similar feel, but much more escapable.

Old Post 08-26-08 05:13 #
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Qaatar
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TheMionicDonut said:
I want the victim to feel a little on edge and wary...so I opted to not include any weapons higher that a pistol for this map. and ammo will be scarce as [insert any vulgar word here] In fact i daresay you will only start with the 50 bullets that begin the game. (and those may very well be gone before you even reach the chainsaw).



Playtesting Report from Qaatar

Read: my playtesting reports will only concern the playability and demo-recording capabilities of the maps on UV. I don't give a shit about misaligned textures or anything aesthetic that does not affect my gameplay. If required, I will also test on the other difficulties.
I will refrain from injecting any personal opinions or tastes regarding architecture, overall level design, et cetera, since most of that is up to the mapper's discretion.

* MAP01: Graveyard Shift by TheMionicDonut

- You can still retain that "haunting atmosphere" without making the start a pain in the ass. I'm speaking from a speedrunner's standpoint, but shooting a demon with a pistol is not difficult or fun, just annoying and time consuming.
Include a berserk pack in the beginning room, or move the demon in the first narrow corridor somewhere else, since one cannot move past him.
At the very least, if you think a berserk pack negates some of the difficulty in UV (I can't see why, since it offers you no health bonus at the start of the level), move the chainsaw from the first teleporter area to the beginning room. ANYTHING is better than using a pistol to shoot benign monsters with high HP.

- Having to chainsaw revenants is just not good gameplay. The reason for this is that it offers you no reliable way to avoid damage, since it requires constant touching of the sprite in HOPES to inflict pain chance that disrupts its attacks. Using a berserk pack to kill them offers much better results, since it actually requires a bit of "skill" to constantly move back and forth to avoid the revenant's punches while hurting it, and also speeds up the killing process.
Yes, Doom requires luck in almost every situation anyways, but a good map strives to take away as much of that luck factor as possible, so the player feels like he can manage the outcome to a greater degree given his skill. It offers more flexibility, and above all, more fun. Just my opinion of course.

- I don't have as much of a problem with the cacodemon room, since you can hide a little bit and wait for him to come to you. Chainsawing cacos is actually much easier than punching cacos as well, so it's an even bigger incentive to include a berserk pack earlier and exclude the chainsaw if you want to ramp up the difficulty.

- As justanotherfool said, make the secrets in the yellow/red key room a bit more conspicuous. Having to find two stacked secrets that have the same wall textures as their surrounding area is a little hard without prior knowledge.

- Change at least one of the pain elementals in the red key room into a cacodemon. Having to punch out an elemental while THREE others are spitting out lost souls is ridiculous. The two elementals in the yellow key room were bad enough, but 4 is just too annoying.

- The trigger for the bars that lower (under the red skull key/green armor) should be moved to maybe the back end of the room, or change how the trigger works. I accidentally stepped on it, and it lowered the bars again, forcing me to wait.

- I love the last part of the map. Very well balanced (infights ended up doing 95% of the work for me).

- I couldn't find the last secret. Ones I found are: soulsphere at the beginning, megaarmor in the crates, berserk, and the computer map. No clue where the last one is.

The map, as it stands now, will probably receive very little demo recording attention from any speedrunners. Has nothing to do with difficulty, but just annoyingly designed gameplay.

Of course, besides everything that I just said, the map is perfectly fine on UV as a casual playthrough type of map. Not difficult at all provided you have prior knowledge of monster placements and secrets. It's just not very balanced for demo recording/speedruns. :)

Basically, the main point that I'm trying to make is: include the berserk pack at the start of the level, instead of as a secret past the midway point of the level. Perhaps change the berserk secret into a chainsaw or a partial invisibility. Hell, a partial invis would make some parts of the level harder.

Old Post 10-01-10 08:19 #
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