Icon of Sin / Baphomet
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Special Interest > Community Chest 4 > CC4 - Map 29: Expect the Unexpected
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:34. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
The Ultimate DooMer
(former) /newstuff Chronicler


Posts: 4701
Registered: 03-02


Might as well get this thread in now. I'm gonna get this sorted over the next week I think, currently about 100% complete.

I'm not going to say what theme/style it is, but I will say this: expect the unexpected.

Last edited by The Ultimate DooMer on 07-14-08 at 19:43

Old Post 07-11-08 16:23 #
The Ultimate DooMer is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
TheCupboard
Forum Regular


Posts: 930
Registered: 02-06


i'm scared :0 But really, I'm looking forward to see what you have in store.

Old Post 07-11-08 18:32 #
TheCupboard is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
TheMionicDonut
Senior Member


Posts: 1188
Registered: 04-08


This is gonna be good

Old Post 07-12-08 01:49 #
TheMionicDonut is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
The Ultimate DooMer
(former) /newstuff Chronicler


Posts: 4701
Registered: 03-02


Looks like I just thought of a title...oh yeah and it's finished too.

And for those who were wondering what the original was like - well the only things different are: the first area (which belonged to TV so I replaced it with a brief intro area), the last area (which I put in one of the surviving PII maps but was kicked anyway so I brought it over), many consoles (which used TNT graphics from the PII wad) and a mechanism in the red key area for controlling visplanes. (since vanilla compatibility isn't needed now)

Last edited by The Ultimate DooMer on 07-14-08 at 20:10

Old Post 07-14-08 20:02 #
The Ultimate DooMer is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
TheMionicDonut
Senior Member


Posts: 1188
Registered: 04-08


Will the Spanish Inquisition be involved with this map?

Old Post 07-14-08 20:08 #
TheMionicDonut is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8885
Registered: 06-06



The Ultimate DooMer said:
Looks like I just thought of a title...
Wait. Didn't it have a title: "Level 29: Expect the Unexpected"?

__________________
Automatic Wolfenstein - Version 1.0 - also on Android

Old Post 07-14-08 21:03 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
justanotherfool
Junior Member


Posts: 200
Registered: 12-07


I know you submitted this map a long time ago, TUD, and I know I should have responded a long time ago, but the version I played could greatly benefit from some more tweaking.

There were a few glaring problems that made me wonder whether you'd tested it in any port other than zdoom, and the aesthetics, gameplay and maybe even the layout could use some refinement.

I last looked at the map months ago, but I remember enough about it to give a considerable amount of feedback.

- The map is split into what seems like 3 or 4 areas. We have the outdoors part, the techbase, the corrupted techbase, and the dark area with the huge towers/temple. My problem with this was that the level lacked cohesiveness - it felt more like playing several different tiny maps than one. This was because instead of transitioning from one theme to another, the map seemed to be made up of wholly separated areas which you would usually access via a teleporter. Cutting down the number of teleporters where possible could make the map feel more connected. When you do teleport, it's best if you arrive at an area you've seen from an earlier part of the level, instead of one that's completely new (which is fine, but only in small amounts).

- The bright lights were out of place here. It almost looked like a disco at times - not the kind of atmosphere you were going for, I'll wager. Try reducing the number of different colours you use for light textures, use 2 or 3 and don't mix them up too much in one area.

- A problem I have with a lot of your maps is that they tend to look dull because of the overuse of square and rectangular sectors. When you do use other shapes (like that semicircular room you teleport into just past the first area) you tend not to use enough lines so they look messy. Adding more vertices and smoothing out some edges in some places would help. I also think you use SHAWN too much. It's a dull and monotonous texture that should be used extremely sparingly.

- Another problem I have with your maps is you tend to overuse big monsters and they tend to involve a lot of BFG spam. Both features very much in evidence here. Try to add more lighter monsters instead of layers of barons, mancubi, arachs, archies, etc. At the moment the map is full of rather boring fights where you pump rockets into small groups of big monsters 'til they die. Also, the traps are predictable.

Having made some general points, I'm now going to link to some screenshots which will enable me to make more specific points...

- http://yfrog.com/mtdoom00p
http://yfrog.com/mudoom01p
http://yfrog.com/5xdoom02p
http://yfrog.com/3udoom04p
http://yfrog.com/ncdoom16p
http://yfrog.com/eldoom10p
http://yfrog.com/jxdoom22p
http://yfrog.com/5adoom24p
Just a few of the many obvious texture misalignments to be found throughout the map.

- http://yfrog.com/evdoom05p
http://yfrog.com/eddoom07ip
http://yfrog.com/n0doom09p
http://yfrog.com/mudoom13p
Not sure entirely why, but these HOMs seem to be spread out on what look like consoles and other objects throughout the map. If I was going to take a guess, I'd say that you probably used new textures that work in zdoom. I was testing in prboom-plus, however.
That red light flat for the ceiling is a poor choice, by the way. It should be used in a relatively small light fixture, not to cover an entire segment of ceiling in some corridor. Bad texture choices like this were common on ceiling flats throughout the map.

- http://yfrog.com/nadoom06p
One does not expect what looks to be organic matter to be so rectangular and ... well, regular in shape. I think you've overdone it with that organic texture as well. Far too little variety in this area w.r.t textures, though it is probably the best detailed segment of the map.
Bright green lights look out of place, especially the floor lights.

- http://yfrog.com/mtdoom08p
Some surfaces look like they haven't been rendered :/
This is another good example of the overt blockiness of the map. Even the pipe is a rectangle. The vines were a nice touch, though.

- http://yfrog.com/2mdoom11p
I'd like to see more lighting of this quality throughout the level, this was really good.

- http://yfrog.com/jcdoom12hp
I hope you see what I mean about the lights :/
I'm not too sure I like the hell sprites in this techbase either.

- http://yfrog.com/mkdoom14p
Didn't like the yellow light fixtures here, and extremely thick doors are something I tend to associate with inexperienced mappers.

- http://yfrog.com/42doom15p
http://yfrog.com/0gdoom20p
An actual pit below would work a lot better here than what appears to be black buildings that look like pits in most places :/

- http://yfrog.com/nedoom17p
http://yfrog.com/5xdoom18p
http://yfrog.com/gidoom19p
http://yfrog.com/n3doom21p
http://yfrog.com/5bdoom23p

This is one of the prettiest rooms in the map, but I still feel it's too squareish. Look at the blood fountain for example. There is a HUGE gameplay issue here, by the way. You'll see it if you look closely :D
That's right, the cyberdemon actually got stuck in the floor for some bizarre reason. I think that the player can fall down there too, but you'll need to use cheats if you want to get out. Fear the might of the illusio-pit, I guess.
The hanging body sprites will block your way in limit-removing ports, so consider placing them somewhere the player can't go anyway.

- http://yfrog.com/11doom25p
Did you actually forget to connect these two sectors together with a door? :P
I seem to recall having to idclip through to get further.
The map is another good illustration of how blocky this map is.

In summary, not bad, but it still needs a lot of work, I think. I'll be happy to look at it again once you've ironed out some of the kinks. As always, the bugs take priority. Comments on aesthetics and gameplay are my own subjective opinion, so feel free to ignore. But I think you might find that many players may agree with most of my points.

EDIT: This thread has been bumped to page one for the first time in a while. I bet that was unexpected :P

Old Post 07-26-10 01:23 #
justanotherfool is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
K!r4
Senior Member


Posts: 1324
Registered: 05-07


If I read correctly your post, it looks like this map has only been tested in ZDoom by the author.
Fortunately it should be easy to fix because of your great bug report.

The map seems to be very varied though, I'm looking forward to play this ;).

Old Post 07-26-10 07:54 #
K!r4 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
[WH]-Wilou84
Member


Posts: 505
Registered: 12-06


Hmm it's weird you got all those missing texture errors with PrBoom-plus. I also tested with PrBoom-plus 2.5.0.5, and I only had texture misalignments ( here for example ).
The large hole in the room with all the weapons is here as well, though.

Try to import the map into a version of cc4alpha, maybe it will resolve the texture problem. PrBoom seems to have problems with loading more than one wad containing new textures, try to have all the new textures grouped in the same wad.

__________________
- Death-Destiny, come back -

Old Post 07-26-10 12:24 #
[WH]-Wilou84 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
justanotherfool
Junior Member


Posts: 200
Registered: 12-07



[WH]-Wilou84 said:
Hmm it's weird you got all those missing texture errors with PrBoom-plus. I also tested with PrBoom-plus 2.5.0.5, and I only had texture misalignments ( here for example ).
The large hole in the room with all the weapons is here as well, though.

Try to import the map into a version of cc4alpha, maybe it will resolve the texture problem. PrBoom seems to have problems with loading more than one wad containing new textures, try to have all the new textures grouped in the same wad.



This is a problem I've had with multiple maps in the project so far, including your own maps :P

It isn't a big problem, since as you say it'll be fairly easy to fix by just moving the new textures to the same wad which will surely be done later on. I could do it myself, but I don't like messing around with XWE and other such programs. I'm content to make a note of it and not worry about it too much until later.

Old Post 07-26-10 13:05 #
justanotherfool is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Qaatar
Member


Posts: 411
Registered: 06-09



justanotherfool said:

In summary, not bad, but it still needs a lot of work, I think. I'll be happy to look at it again once you've ironed out some of the kinks. As always, the bugs take priority. Comments on aesthetics and gameplay are my own subjective opinion, so feel free to ignore. But I think you might find that many players may agree with most of my points.
EDIT: This thread has been bumped to page one for the first time in a while. I bet that was unexpected :P



In regards to the feeling that the different areas seemed incohesive, I totally agree. The entire map felt like a disparate and incongruous aggregate of ideas crammed into one. I wouldn't really care if it was a slaughter map, but it's not. The fact that the environment is so overly detailed, with things like a bunch of Wolfenstein 3-D type vines that hides monsters, is rather irritating. However, that's just my personal opinion, and a rather subjective viewpoint on certain predilections in gameplay.

No bugs related to gameplay as far as I can tell.

Old Post 10-01-10 15:04 #
Qaatar is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT


Posts: 8885
Registered: 06-06



Qaatar said:


In regards to the feeling that the different areas seemed incohesive, I totally agree. The entire map felt like a disparate and incongruous aggregate of ideas crammed into one.

And the name sounds like "Tricks and Traps", not very serious. Maybe you can pull a "Gate to Limbo" here, calling only the intermission ENTERING text "expect the unexpected" and another name on the automap. Too bad Doom 2 only waits a fraction of second before loading the map.

Old Post 10-01-10 17:12 #
printz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:34. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Special Interest > Community Chest 4 > CC4 - Map 29: Expect the Unexpected

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.