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Christoph
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/UPDATE/

5/22/09

I've mentioned this already, but for the sake of extra clarity I'll say it here as well: my mapping has been indefinitely postponed due to technical problems. Someone else has taken over this mapslot since I am (for all intents and purposes) out of this project until further notice (if at all). I did not "choose" to drop out (from lack of time/willingness) - but due to computer problems I am forced to. I wish I could continue, but both Doombuilders won't work on this computer and I am unwilling to try other editors. I wish the best for everyone still involved, and look forward to playing this when it's done!

/END UPDATE/



CC4 Map08: The Grotto

Current status: 70% complete (on hiatus indefinitely)

------

Here are the first several screenshots:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0004.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0005.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0006.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0007.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0008.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0009.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0010.png

I'll try to show some more parts of the map soon, and also work on new areas, as soon as I get some time to do so (my "doom" computer is at my other place of residence so I don't always have access to it).

Last edited by Christoph on 05-22-09 at 04:17

Old Post 07-20-08 22:57 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Looks good so far :) If you started this before the project even started, try checking out the texture pack, has some really nice Cave/Grotto textures in there.

Last edited by TheMionicDonut on 07-21-08 at 18:32

Old Post 07-20-08 23:00 #
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Butts
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your gamma is too high but the map looks really nice.

Old Post 07-21-08 20:04 #
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Jimmy
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A high gamma will make your eyes sting but does actually help to show distant objects/architecture in the map (if you happen to be semi-near-sighted like myself). :)

Looking very fancy indeed. I'll enjoy playing it shamelessly testing this thoroughly like a productive project member should. :P

Old Post 07-21-08 20:17 #
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Christoph
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Glad you people like it... As for the gamma thing, I had been taking screenshots before which kept coming out too dark, or at least too dark to make out the details. Therefore I made it excessively bright just so you can see what the actual map looks like.

I like the idea of using new textures, but I gave up after trying unsuccessfully to use XWE. I just don't have the patience to learn new programs anymore, unless it's simple and bug-free, or unless someone painstakingly walks me through every little step. Maybe I'm just lazy, but as long as I can make it look half-decent using original stock textures, I'll stick with that, unless someone else wants to add and incorporate them for me after I finish the basic map myself..

Old Post 07-21-08 21:37 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Ive never seen somebody who uses XWE to make a map. Good for you.
I also see you are using mdk when you take your screenshots :)

Old Post 07-21-08 21:54 #
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Mechadon
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You shouldn't need XWE to use the offical CC4 texture pack with your map (unless I'm missing something here). If your using DoomBuilder, you can add additional textures (via .wad) when you first open your map. Look for "Additional textures and flats from WAD file:", browse for the CC4 texture resource wad, and load it. That should add all the textures from it to DoomBuilder allowing you to see and use them :)

Anywho, it's looking like a pretty epic map. Keep it up :D

Old Post 07-21-08 23:23 #
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Christoph
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TheMionicDonut said:
Ive never seen somebody who uses XWE to make a map. Good for you.
I also see you are using mdk when you take your screenshots :)



I don't know where you got both of those ideas because neither of them are true...unless I did use mdk but just don't know what it is. I tried to use XWE several months ago to add textures to my wad, but gave up when it didn't do what someone told me it should've.

Mechadon, now that you mention it, that should actually work. I've been able to use other textures in DoomBuilder, but only in conjunction with the other wad they're taken from - permanently adding them into the wad itself is another thing that I don't want to bother trying to learn now. However, since this is a megawad, I will assume that I won't need to add the textures to my wad myself, if they are already going to be there when the megawad is put together. With that in mind, I'll find the cc4 textures and try using them in my map.

Thanks for the advice!

Old Post 07-23-08 17:41 #
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Christoph
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I know this is getting slightly off-topic, but I finally realized that (id?)mdk is a supposedly a cheat that kills monsters. However, before taking the screenshots, I just went to the in-game console and typed "kill monsters" which pretty much has the same effect (not sure if it directly kills them or just causes 1,000,000 damage to everything). The reason was that I forgot to use -nomonsters before loading the game, so I just did "kill monsters" instead. Good guess though Mionic!

Old Post 07-23-08 23:41 #
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TheMionicDonut
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mdk fires a single bullet that causes 1,000,000 damage. I usually use it when i want to eliminate certain monsters to check if anything is stuck. when i playtest my map.

Old Post 07-24-08 05:39 #
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Christoph
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Seems that my screenshots will be have to postp@wned until I can use a better comp that doesn't crash Firefox everytime I try to upload to Photobucket. (This isn't my comp and I know several reasons it may be acting retarded but I don't feel like going into that right now)...

Old Post 08-04-08 03:35 #
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Christoph
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Okay..got that upload issue taken care of, thanks to the wonder of public libraries.

Just some eye candy:

(I like giving chainsaws where you'll actually need them)

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0017.png

Those blue lights remind me of those colored button-candy I used to eat as a child. Mmmm candy buttons...

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0002.png

This room is still being worked on - I'm experimenting with the textures but they look very usable for this area:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0019.png

The gothic window texture was exactly what I needed for this part, and seems to fit in alright, but I wonder if there is a way to make it look better - perhaps a dark support frame around it? Or would that be an extraneous decoration wasting my seg limit (Or have I blown it already)?

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0018.png

Old Post 08-04-08 18:25 #
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Death-Destiny
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Looking impressive like the other screenies! You've got quite an imagination. :O

I think the textures in shot three look fine. They match the others reasonably well. Just for future reference, the SEG limit is 32767. Judging by your style of design, I doubt you've exceeded it, but you can check the SEGS lmp for your WAD in a WAD Editor like XWE to be certain.

Last edited by Death-Destiny on 08-04-08 at 19:52

Old Post 08-04-08 18:45 #
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TheMionicDonut
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You'll have a chainsaw going into this map :)
Im liking the new textures though.

Old Post 08-04-08 19:35 #
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Christoph
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TheMionicDonut said:
You'll have a chainsaw going into this map :)


Still, I prefer to design every map to be played/playable from scratch, just so it's more versatile that way, and can stand on its own better. It may be redundant when you play through multiple maps in a row, but there's no harm in having extra weapons lying around.

Old Post 08-05-08 15:45 #
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Death-Destiny
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Christoph said:


Still, I prefer to design every map to be played/playable from scratch, just so it's more versatile that way, and can stand on its own better. It may be redundant when you play through multiple maps in a row, but there's no harm in having extra weapons lying around.


This is good map design. I know I prefer to play every map from pistol start and I'm certain I'm not the only one. The map will hold up better if players know it was designed with pistol starts in mind.

Old Post 08-05-08 16:49 #
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Creaphis
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Wait a second... "must be playable from pistol starts" isn't already a mandate? It certainly should be.

Old Post 08-06-08 21:52 #
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Christoph
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I thought it was supposed to be that way too, but I can't remember exactly where it said so. It also seems common sense for a megawad consisting of this many maps, which almost as many authors and themes. Actually it should be the rule for just about any map whatsoever, because many people like to start from scratch.

Old Post 08-09-08 13:42 #
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Christoph
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I've been getting a feel for the CC4 textures, and finally, after much messing around with less-than-ideal textures and combos, finally came up with a good look for the next area.

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0000.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0004-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0005-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0008-1.png

Here are some of the texture ideas I was messing around with - I ended up not using any of them, but maybe sometime later I will:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0009-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0010-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0011.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0012.png

This last part I almost scrapped because it would hardly connect well with the other (above) area the way I made it. But it must be good for something, and I have an idea or two that just might make it worth keeping, bit I still have to work it out:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0013.png

My original idea was to have that fountain area as a room between the new area and an older bstone area, but the transition would seem rather awkward (I might even have to use wire-tele for that to work height-wise). But my other idea was to have the fountain dead end with some kind of powerup or something, or maybe a grate window looking into the nearby sewer cave.

Old Post 08-14-08 16:01 #
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Christoph
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Incidentally my map may need to be transferred to a higher map slot sometime later, since it is relatively large and challenging. So far it has about 350 monsters, and likely to be around twice that amount when done.

It also has around 1300 sectors so far, and will probably have between 1500 and 2000 when done. I really want to keep that as low as possible, for all practical reasons, but without compromising too much detail. A lot (okay maybe 100) of the current sectors can be condensed (joined) since they're identical, but I like to leave stuff like that for last to avoid unnecessary complications.

IF I can get this map done soon, I'm thinking about trying for a second one for CC4, since it looks like a lot of people have dropped out. The map I have in mind would be a lot smaller and simpler, with a doom1 (e1) feel to it. But that is just tentative for now...

Old Post 08-14-08 21:27 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Second slots will apparantly be open around October.

You could request to move this to say, slot 08 which is currently open and wont have any affect on sky usage (if there is any) Take it up with the management. It would make the slot 02 open and all the more accessable to simple mappers.

Old Post 08-14-08 22:24 #
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Kyka
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Those inner areas are looking so so much better now. Great work.. :)

Old Post 08-16-08 05:43 #
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Christoph
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More screenies!

Work on this map has been very slow, tedious, and brain-wracking lately. After getting a nice burst of progress, I got somewhat stumped, so I decided to at least touch up some previous areas in the meantime.

And industrial-looking room:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto11.png

I revamped a certain room to incorporate my recently acquired usage of "windows":
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto1.png

inside:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto12.png

That key looks suspiciously easy to get...HMMMMMMmmmmm...
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto2.png

Behind the forcefield is...a dark room?
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto10.png

Which contains a power generator
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto9.png

Which must be activated in order to use the lift to get out of the Grotto:
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto8.png

Look - a door! OMG!!!
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto7.png

Some color-coded halls:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto4.png

Those items must be there for a reason...
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/grotto3.png

Old Post 08-24-08 00:05 #
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Death-Destiny
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Good looking. I love the way that in the first screenie, the glorious item on the pedestal is a chaingun despite that you already have one (IDFA cheater ;-P). I always like keys sitting out in the open to make me wonder what kind of ridiculous trap awaits me. Oh, and OMG, A DOOR!?! =O

Anyways, nice progress. This map seems like it will be very epic.

Old Post 08-24-08 00:33 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Im liking the new pics, but be sure to change the topic name to fit the new map slot

Old Post 08-24-08 00:51 #
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Tango
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The n5-textured base looks really nice. I don't like either of the steps that you did though (gray step with blue top, green step with grass top).

Old Post 08-24-08 00:53 #
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Christoph
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Ah, the chaingun..I actually made 2 chainguns in a relatively close area, so that which ever path you choose you can get one on the way (though one is a secret).

I'm not about to change the steps to suit someone's fancy, but out of curiosity, what would you (Tango) have preferred? Most of the other combos I tried looked a lot worse, and I specifically chose those floor textures, so I want the steps to match as best they can. Thanks for the feedback!

Old Post 08-24-08 12:12 #
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Death-Destiny
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Tango is simply a proponent of a different sort of aesthetic style, which is more focused on realism. If the front of the step is a grey, metallic texture, than the top should also be grey and metallic or something similar. The style you are using is based on color scheme and co-ordination. Since the floors nearby the step are blue, you made the steptop blue as well to co-ordinate them together. In the style you're using, color scheme is more important than texture and flat matching.

Personally, I prefer what you're doing already if you want a second opinion. In any case, I think either style is valid if used correctly, so I'd say it's really up to you. Your texture choice is not objectively wrong, IMO.

Old Post 08-24-08 18:26 #
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TomoAlien
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This looks very professional. Great work!

Old Post 09-01-08 10:54 #
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Bloodskull
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Couple of suggestions and comments. First the indoor cave areas are very impressive, and actually gave me a couple architect ideas. The cave/tech base transition looks really nice, but I think your tech area seems to be struggling after the transition. Maybe by adding a bit more detail or adding some windows with the cave being in view would add an interesting touch.

Old Post 09-02-08 14:25 #
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