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esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


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Death-Destiny said:
Tango is simply a proponent of a different sort of aesthetic style, which is more focused on realism. If the front of the step is a grey, metallic texture, than the top should also be grey and metallic or something similar. The style you are using is based on color scheme and co-ordination. Since the floors nearby the step are blue, you made the steptop blue as well to co-ordinate them together. In the style you're using, color scheme is more important than texture and flat matching.

Personally, I prefer what you're doing already if you want a second opinion. In any case, I think either style is valid if used correctly, so I'd say it's really up to you. Your texture choice is not objectively wrong, IMO.


The non-matching step textures and flats can be fixed, though, without removing the visual contrast: make a border of something like 4 or 8 units around the step (or just in the front of it, or however you like) using a flat with a similar color and brightness to the step texture (for example, flat23 or floor0_3 for the silver steps, and ceil5_1 for the other ones). That way, you get to keep the interesting combination of colors while still looking realistic.

EDIT: The grass-textured steps do seem a bit odd, though. Maybe they could have a border of FLAT1GN or CEIL5_GN or something, with CEIL5_1 in the center instead of grass? I dunno. It's just kind of strange to have grass growing on top of each little step. :P

Of course it's your map, just making some suggestions.

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Last edited by esselfortium on 09-02-08 at 15:29

Old Post 09-02-08 15:23 #
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Christoph
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Bloodskull - I actually did add some windows looking into the big cave. However, the metal/tech area (with those 64-high bricks or whatever) is a different wing of the map, and it will only have one window looking into a different sort of cave. The rest (of the latter techbase) I'm still trying to figure out how to make without getting too crazy and making a whole 'nother huge different area or otherwise compromising the overall feel of the map. I have various ideas but I want it to be the right way...

esselfortium - I did consider that idea (of a narrow floorstrip along the step's edge of same color). Personally I don't see that much wrong with it as is, and like to think of it as some kind of carpet rather than grass, but I especially don't want a floor that looks too smooth and shiny. Also I want to avoid too many extra details, much as I like being detailed, just for the sake of time limit, map segs and whatnot. But I will seriously consider, or try to incorporate that in my future maps (I learn lots of new stuff every map I make).

ps if you see any sloppy-looking textures and misalignments in my screenies they are probably just there because i haven't gotten around to tidying it up yet. I am fairly OCD about such things, but will let it slide for the time being as long as the general look is there. I like to completely finish an area (dimension-wise) before spending too much time with texture alignment, and many of these areas are still in progress.

Last edited by Christoph on 09-20-08 at 18:25

Old Post 09-02-08 23:22 #
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Christoph
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I've been making some decent progress lately, although I don't see much point in posting more screenies at this point (I don't want to give away EVERY part of my map now do I?). Much as I like to impress people, I'd rather keep the rest a surprise, and I still have a good portion of the map left to complete (think I finally got a basic working plan though). So that's my update so far. About 65% done and crawling steadily along.

Old Post 10-16-08 21:45 #
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Aleaver
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Thats what I did with map 17..I stopped posting screenshots so aleast some of the map was left to be seen when the project is released..But I do like what I have seen of your map..Can't wait to play this!

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Old Post 10-16-08 21:48 #
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Christoph
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Ah, fuck it. Here are some more screenshots of mostly the same places but more finished. I'm basically posting because A) it's way too dead in this forum, and B) it helps me stay motivated and keep working.


http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0000-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0001.png

Yes, those are bullet-proof windows

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0002-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0005-2.png

A mine-shaft type elevator:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0007-1.png

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0004-2.png

Changed some textures and added lights:

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/DOOM0008-2.png

Old Post 12-21-08 19:06 #
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Jimmy
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Looking very nice indeed! I'm digging that elevator (no pun intended).

Old Post 12-21-08 20:02 #
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esselfortium
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Looks awesome! I'd suggest maybe making the ceiling lights in the first two shots go 8 units up into the ceiling instead of sticking out 8 units down from it, though. It might look better (or not, but it's worth a try IMO)

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Old Post 12-21-08 20:17 #
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Christoph
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That is an interesting alternative, and I'll try it. I'd say, for something like that, it's ultimately a matter of personal preference, since either way looks almost equally interesting, but I'll just have to try it myself and decide.

Old Post 12-22-08 18:06 #
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Christoph
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Still working, slowly but surely. Will post screenshots once I have something new/decent to show.

Old Post 02-03-09 00:23 #
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TheeXile
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Love the tech effects. Especially the transparent consoles.

Old Post 02-22-09 04:00 #
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Christoph
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While I am at it, I figured I may as well post this crappy excuse for an update:

This room used to be square!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/Screenshot_Doom_20090222_234347.png

And those yellow lights didn't used to be there! =0

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg187/Christoph256/Screenshot_Doom_20090222_234755.png

The one thing I am wondering, made painfully clear in that^ pic, is how best to fix the height of the lighting - I know doom legacy had the option of tagging light heights to dummy sectors, but I haven't tried doing it with Boom yet. There is the cheap and bug-prone trick of raising the ceiling height beyond visibility, but that's just too weird for me to do on a map/part like this and could probably cause visual bugs some way or other.

Old Post 02-23-09 05:05 #
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esselfortium
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Boom has linetype 261 to transfer ceiling light, and type 213 to transfer floor light. Put the line facing a dummy sector and give that sector the desired light level, and then give the appropriate sectors the same tag that you gave the type-261/213 transfer line.

Usually when mapping I set up tags like 1128, 1144, 1160, and so on for all the floor light transfer levels in increments of 16, then 2128, 2144, and so on for the ceiling light transfer levels. That way, the majority of the time when I need to set a floor or ceiling light level I don't need to set up anything new or try to remember which tag was used for the floor/ceiling brightness I'm looking for :)

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Old Post 02-23-09 05:53 #
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RjY
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It's much easier to just raise the ceiling by 1024 and leave the upper textures missing than faff about with Boom light transfers.

edit: link for reference.

Old Post 02-23-09 17:37 #
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Stilgar
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RjY said:
It's much easier to just raise the ceiling by 1024 and leave the upper textures missing than faff about with Boom light transfers.

edit: link for reference.


Won't that sod up with GL ports, though?

Old Post 02-23-09 17:48 #
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Kirby
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Stilgar said:

Won't that sod up with GL ports, though?

I believe you are correct. Besides, setting up sector tags for light transfers really isn't that much of a hassle. All you need to do is remember the numbers you used for the tag.

Old Post 02-24-09 00:05 #
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esselfortium
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Stilgar said:

Won't that sod up with GL ports, though?


I know GZDoom, at least, has methods for detecting and handling them correctly.

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Old Post 02-24-09 01:18 #
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Creaphis
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As a general rule, I think it's better to use a well-implemented feature over a crude hack to achieve the same effect. The latter option is more likely to be broken in some current port or the hypothetical ports of the future.

Then again, support for these canonical vanilla hacks might be more universal than Boom support...

Old Post 02-24-09 03:37 #
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Christoph
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See, that is the exact quandary I was trying to explain - basically, should I use the crude, and possibly buggy yet simplistic raise-the-ceiling trick, or do the more detailed and proper way of tagging light/dummy sectors? I'm leaning towards tagging, not only to be more professional, but also for the sake of learning it (I hate not knowing how to do things that I know I should learn).

Old Post 02-24-09 04:17 #
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Christoph
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Finally got around to working on the map a little more, and realized how stupidly simple it is to use the transfer floor/ceil lights effects. Got one part of one new area done, and several other ideas planned. Once this is done it definitely WILL kick ass, in its own way.

EDIT/update: Part of the reason for my lack of significant progress the past several months was due to lack of personal space to work on the computer mapping. However, I am now moving so hopefully that will change once I get settled in to the new place. I'll have to see how everything goes, and hope Doom/DB works on whatever computer I end up with. If things work out right, I could be very prolific with mapping and other stuff. I should find out within the week or so.

Last edited by Christoph on 03-17-09 at 04:52

Old Post 03-14-09 22:14 #
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Christoph
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Update 4/4/09:

Bad news - I'll have to drop out until further notice. My new laptop and DB that I had to re-DL don't seem to be cooperating, and DB had some really bad bugs when it did run (randomly scrambling vertices upon saving, screwing up more than half the textures, and other problems). If anything changes I'll mention it, but for now I'm unable to work on my map anymore, and I most likely will be in the same situation for about a year. :/ Sorry to disappoint so many who wanted to play my map - I do promise that eventually I do intend to finish it one way or another and publically share it. Thanks to everyone's support and I wish the best for this project and look forward to playing it whenever it's done. I'm not leaving the Doom community per say - just being temporarily stalled by stupid software problems which may not improve for a while.

Old Post 04-06-09 06:29 #
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Dutch Doomer
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Well that sucks, I hope your not going to drop out completely. Your map looks very good, I hope you can finish it as soon as your computer problems are solved.

Old Post 04-06-09 13:59 #
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printz
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Find another map editor and try to use its quirks for you.

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Old Post 04-06-09 18:32 #
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tungsai
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Great designs dude! As good or better than the original ID releases. I love the "aztec" type doors!

Old Post 04-24-09 19:48 #
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Christoph
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I'm not sure if I should be posting this here or in the CC4 compilation progress thread - don't exactly want to spam up the main thread with map-specific details, unless that is in fact what its purpose is - I don't think it was too clearly specified.

TheGreenHerring had said:

MAP11: The Grotto -
* Rebuilt the nodes to make the following changes, simultaneously fixing a nodebuilding error at the winding techbase stairs at the start. Prior to this, there was an otherwise inexplicable, invisible barrier in the middle of one of the stairs, not defined by any linedef in the level. [May 17, 2012]


I never had that problem myself, or else I never noticed it. Anyway, glad it's dealt with!



* The red skull key door switches are now actual switches instead of just "Locked" panels that change to "Granted" when pressed. The "Locked -> Granted" effect was also redone to look better. [May 17, 2012]
* There is now a PassThru flag on the linedef north of the blue skull bars. Previously, you could not open them from any distance besides "close enough to kiss them." [May 17, 2012]


If it looks better and functions more realistically, then great - I approve!



* The early, three-floor elevator now moves as fast as the later two-level elevator does. [May 17, 2012]


This^ I'm not sure if I approve, but I won't complain either - I do recall being mildly annoyed at how slow the elevator moved, even though I think it was more realistic that way. Not a huge deal either way.



* Monster teleportation at the winding staircase has been made much faster, and a second teleport spot was added for the imps to arrive on. Previously, the speed of teleportation could vary enough that the player could outrun the ambush before it could occur. [May 17, 2012]


Not sure which winding staircase - about half the map is made of them.
I approve of things not being overly easy though.



* The door to the "four backpacks" secret no longer has moving doortracks. [May 17, 2012]*

I'm pretty sure I had designed it that way on purpose, but that is also not a big deal either way.


* The soulsphere secret behind the blue reactor core now has widened activation range, so that it is harder to miss when moving quickly. [May 17, 2012]

Good.

* Planned: Add a way to get the secret BFG in -nomonsters mode (normally accessed via arch-vile jump), just so you can get 100% Secrets in that mode. This method will be locked off when monsters are genabled, of course.

Sounds fine. Though I just had a related idea - maybe the archie should teleport as soon as is alerted (by stepping off that square) and portal onto the ledge area where you would want him to be to pop you - otherwise it's an aggravating hassle just trying to lure him out of there and past all the corpses that lie between his start location and goal location. Once he's out there, he can resurrect all he wants, as long as the jump is easily facilitated at the same time.

I also was thinking it might be good to switch the invisiblity and soulspheres in the beginning - so that you can get the invisibility before opening that lower door where all the hitscanners are. I assume/hope you know the two locations I'm referring to - I don't want to give it away publicly.

There is also a secret that Joshy modified/finished that I would like altered. After crossing the moat in the central room, there is a ledge (on the near east side) with a tunnel from it going into a watertunnel. I think it's 25 high or something like that, so that you have to (alt?)-run from a higher sector to get onto it. I think it should be higher (so as to be un-jumpable from ground level or nearby bushes) but also a tad easier to land on (from a higher sector). And possibly change the graywall in there to dark brick or something that looks more sewery and caveish.

Old Post 05-23-12 15:07 #
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Christoph
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Anyway another idea I had was to connect the sewer/revenent/commando secret (east side) with the moat going through the main room. But there would be lumpy rocks and stuff in the waterway that would make it only one-way jumpable, so that you could come out but not in that way. I think Joshy had done it vaguely similar to that, through my idea was much more detailed than just a straight flat chute. Maybe even work in a semi-broken grate over the exit hole...

Old Post 05-23-12 15:20 #
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Christoph
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My brother and I tried to play the map on multiplayer (using a version that Josh Sealy had sent me a while back) but were confused as to why it didn't work in multiplayer (though it did in singleplayer). Then I looked at the Things (in particular the other player starts) and saw that they did not have the "multiplayer" flag. We changed them to be "multiplayer" and it worked after that. But since it was just for the wads we used, it will still need to changed in the public version.

Old Post 06-09-12 20:16 #
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