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Phobus
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Statistics
Status: 100%
Hours spent working: 25
vertices: 3874
linedefs: 4397
sidedefs: 7119
sectors: 601
things: 447
secrets: 9
monsters on hard: 167
monsters on medium: 139
monsters on easy: 101
nomonsters speed run time: 38 seconds (by me on ZDoom)
UV speed run time with monsters: 43 seconds (by me on Zdoom)
uv max time for me: roughly 8-10 minutes
music: D_E2M4

The map has three sections, which are detailed as below:

1) Doom style techbase, but with better architecture/detail and texturing. I've been using the 1x1 grid a fair bit to make sure my diagonal rooms on the grid are well textured and measured out, even if it takes a bit longer. You have a choice of getting the blue key, the yellow key, or doing both routes for max kill. Either key will let you out into a part of section 2. Makes use of a fair few resource wad textures

2)Grim outdoors bit, using almost exclusively resource wad textures, I intend to create a dual track, dark, grim mini canyon/cave structure that's set up a bit like the slough of despair, just smaller. Blue key door leads to the cave bit, yellow key leads to canyon bit. Cave overlooks canyon, but doesn't lead to it. You use the same keys at the other ends of the non-linear-ish sections to get into the final section.

3) Broken down techbase. Using the dark textures, I want the final area to be a rusty, horrible old installation, which has one exit, but three paths... can't decide if I want them to be a linear unlocking style or a choice off of the main room.

I intend to make the map fairly easy, though tough in places, and have a fair few secrets and the like.

Screenshots:

All screenshots are pre-monster and most thing placement, only showing keys, things in secrets or in designed positions (ie. decorations), and are provided as links because there's an [img] tag limit.

Section 1 screens:

The start room - Taken from an angle that avoids looking out of the window to the outside area: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4start.png

The yellow key part - This is an example of my 1x1 grid usage to make the octagons multiples of 128 on all sides for good texture alignment: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4yellowkey.png

The blue key part - this is a room on the way to the blue key. You get the corridor with the gun-port style windows looking in on the room itself, which is just a little computer lab: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4bluekey.png

Section 2 sceens:

These are all fairly dark, as it's meant to be grim and nasty outside - in any caves or under overhangs it's 96, whilst in the open is 128.

The high path - As soon as you step out of the building and walk forwards a little, the scenery will look like this (bit of moss in the picture there). There's a main path, which has holes to look out over the low path, and a second, side path here, just to make it a little more interesting: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4highpath.png

The low path, before the river/stream - here's a view of the open-ish environment on the low path: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4outdoors.png

The low path, on a plateu - After the river/stream there's a small fairly flat and open rock to get across, or you can take a side route around it: http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4outdoors2.png

The low path, from a vantage point - A teleporter hidden away can get you up to here, which looks back at section 1 (though the tree is in the way for the most part): http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4cave.png

Section 3 Screens:

The main room of the dark techbase, entered through the yellow key door. Multiple doors and a lift out of here, so you best be ready to look about a bit. http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4darkmain.png

The entrance through the blue key door - looking a little broken down and worse for wear (light flickers round the wires). http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4darkblue.png

One of three potential exits. Is it the real one? Who knows :P http://www.phobus.servegame.com/cc4darkexit.png

And there we have it - submitted to TGH as per the rules.

Last edited by Phobus on 11-24-08 at 14:00

Old Post 10-20-08 22:13 #
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Use3D
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Sounds excellent. Looking forward to screenshots.

Old Post 10-20-08 23:18 #
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Butts
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im liking the sounds of it.

Old Post 10-21-08 02:04 #
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Phobus
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Right, section 1 is now architecturally complete. I'll put gameplay in right at the end, though I've already set up traps and teleporters for monsters, so don't worry, I'm not neglecting it :P

First post is updated with statistics, status and 3 screenshots. I'll admit they're not the best looking screens but there they are. Feel free to recommend changes, though I do feel I've got something of the updated-Doom-style-techbase feel I was aiming for without overdoing sectors. Floors are almost entirely unobstructed for swift gameplay, and I've set up a string of secrets that will help speed runners get the blue key and to the door swiftly (I think I took 15 seconds, as opposed to 30 or so using the shortcuts, and that could be improved by a proper speedrunner).

Oh, and btw - am I allowed to show these screenshots in other places (such as the "what the hell are you working on?" thread over at zdoom.org)?

Old Post 10-21-08 18:15 #
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esselfortium
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Looks good! A couple of minor suggestions that come to mind:

The short, wide COMPSPAN bars over the diagonal staircase on the right side of shot 2 might look better with a different texture. Something that doesn't have vertical lines that don't match up with the width of the wall, especially. BRONZEG5 might fit the bill, also having more of a textured 3D appearance to it (rather than being generally flat like COMPSPAN).

Something doesn't look quite right to me about the ceiling computer above the doorway on the left in shot 1. It might look better with another sector surrounding the computer, lowered 64 units (so that only 64 vertical units of the computer texture are visible), maybe using BRONZEG5 or something else that appears to match somewhat with the computers' color.

In shot 2, with the yellow key, if you lowered the railing a bit, the player would be able to get a significantly better view of the area.

Of course these are just some suggestions; take them as you will.

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Old Post 10-21-08 18:56 #
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Phobus
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Thanks for the suggestions essel!

I decided to just swap the horizontal bars for two COMPSPAN 64x64 blocks, as I didn't like the look of BRONZEG5 as it was too dirty looking for the surgical cleanliness (well... aside from the doors) of the base.

I built a 16 map unit thick, 64 unit tall border round the top of the computers over the door, and you're right, it looks a lot better now. I used Silver4 (I think that's what it's called anyway) for the border.

I also swapped the railings for the next size down, which is the best I could do, as the smallest one looks too small to be blocking (to me) and the one I was using was quite obstructive where the view is concerned.

I'll post updated screenshots next time I upload a batch.

Old Post 10-21-08 20:40 #
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The Green Herring
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Phobus said:
Oh, and btw - am I allowed to show these screenshots in other places (such as the "what the hell are you working on?" thread over at zdoom.org)?
I don't see why not. :)

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Old Post 10-21-08 22:34 #
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Phobus
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No screenshot updates or new screenshots yet, because I've only done the larger half of the dual track cave/canyon section and a little bit of the smaller half, and there's bits that would be a nice screenshot were it not for the in-progress bits visible then.

However, work is coming along nicely on the days where I have time to map (which since starting has been 4), and the outdoor section does look pretty good I think, thanks largely to the nice rock textures in the resource pack (thanks essel!).

I'll admit the outdoors section is a little larger than intended, but that's no problem yet, I shouldn't think.

As a final point - I checked out the screenies of MAP02 and MAP04 (to see how well my idea fits with the surrounding maps), and although I couldn't see much of MAP02 in the screens, I think the door visible in the entrance screenshot would fit into that theme well enough, so that's close enough. I'm not sure if I should try and make the actual end of my map (after the grim and gritty techbase section) try and fit with MAP04, or just go for a generic teleporter exit, as the themes seem similar enough, but jimmy's map is considerably brighter and more cheerful than mine will be. Teleporter would be easier and more fitting I reckon, plus it forces continuity without extra work.

Old Post 10-26-08 17:37 #
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Dr. Zin
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Phobus said:
As a final point - I checked out the screenies of MAP02 and MAP04 (to see how well my idea fits with the surrounding maps), and although I couldn't see much of MAP02 in the screens, I think the door visible in the entrance screenshot would fit into that theme well enough, so that's close enough. I'm not sure if I should try and make the actual end of my map (after the grim and gritty techbase section) try and fit with MAP04, or just go for a generic teleporter exit, as the themes seem similar enough, but jimmy's map is considerably brighter and more cheerful than mine will be. Teleporter would be easier and more fitting I reckon, plus it forces continuity without extra work.


The maps are getting rearranged according to difficulty at the end anyway.

Old Post 10-26-08 19:14 #
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Phobus
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Well, I never knew that, but even if it isn't true I'll just go with a generic teleport exit anyway I think.

And there's a status update, and new screens, plus the old ones have been updated (I picked up the yellow key before the screenshot and I took the blue key part screenshot from within the room this time to get a better view).

Once again, opinions are welcome :)

Old Post 10-27-08 17:30 #
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Use3D
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Phobus said:
Well, I never knew that, but even if it isn't true I'll just go with a generic teleport exit anyway I think.



To clarify, if your map is suitable for its slot, then it will stay as map3.

Old Post 10-27-08 19:37 #
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Phobus
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Right - better safe than sorry there then.

Small update in the main post, I'm currently on the grim, broken techbase... it's not very detailed, but it's got a nice, dark atmosphere so far I think - the empty spaces probably help. Just got to make the three paths for the exit part, and then I'll get some screenshots up for scrutiny before going on to putting in monster placement. This should get done quite quickly if I have the time.

Old Post 11-01-08 19:54 #
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Phobus
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Double Post, sorry.

I've now finished the mapping! Statistics and screenshots are on the first page. Naturally any comments or suggestions are welcome. I've decided not to use any custom MIDI, as the somewhat moody standard tune fits the map quite well, I think.

I'll get on with item placement sooner or later. I'm planning on having it be quite easy and sparsely populated (idea being that the less frequent monster encounters once you leave the first section will add to the tension), though obviously you'll still be shooting quite a bit, as it is Doom afterall!

Old Post 11-12-08 16:56 #
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Phobus
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Seems like I'm spamming my own map thread, but oh well.

I think my map is done, so I'll have a go at building the BSP and e-mail it to the beta testers.

It should be good for single player, 2-4 player co-op and even deathmatch up to about 8 players or so. There's a large amount of ammo and health and the difficulty isn't particularly high, so it's definitely an early map, although a chunk of the surplus is only produced by secrets and good exploration, so not searching every corner should allow for a tighter play through that is still quite manageable. Co-op balances the weapons and ammo put in for DM by having a few extra big monsters in, so if people fancy testing that I'd be happy to hear how that goes :)

I've tested it single player and caught all of the bugs I could find, so in theory it should work quite well.

Anyway, I'll see to that node build now and send it on it's way in zip form.

Old Post 11-17-08 19:26 #
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justanotherfool
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Hello Phobus.

I looked at your map briefly, and on the whole it seemed excellent. There isn't really that much to say regarding potential improvements at the moment, it seems. Maybe I'll come up with some more things later.

Anyway, as is fast becoming a standard procedure for me, I made a demo of my first attempt at the map. The time is well in excess of that required for a maxdemo if you know the level, and is something like 20:40. If you can be bothered to watch it, it might give you some ideas for improving the map.

The level looks very good, monster placement seems fine, difficulty on UV is about right for an early map.

There are a lot of secrets, and so far I've only managed to locate about 5 of them. That isn't really a problem, though, since it's not as if you desperately need all the secret items. It's good to have a few obscure secrets.

I also like the fact that you have a choice of different routes to the exit. I recorded two speedruns showcasing the two routes mostly to see which route was quicker. The times are something like 1:17 for the yellow route and 1:04 for the blue route. Demos are attached if you're interested. I didn't use any of the shortcut secrets, since I didn't find them, but I'll be sure to try again when I've found them.

The only real quibble I had with the level was the choice of music. I happen to dislike doom 2 map 03's music, and I personally think the music from e2m4, rq05 or rq11 (to give a few examples) would be more suitable, although it is, of course, your call.

Demos are attached below...
http://rapidshare.com/files/1648182...boscc4.zip.html

Old Post 11-17-08 23:58 #
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Phobus
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Thanks for your time, and thanks for the comments!

I'll check the demos out if I can (I'm none too sure what engine you used for demo recording, and rapidshare is asking me to wait a while) and see what you made of it. I've not done a monsters speed run myself yet, so I may have to give that a go at some point to see whether or not I can manage it in a short time.

As for the music... well, to be honest I never hear the music on MAP03 in zdoom on my laptop for some reason. I remember roughly what it sounds like, but you may well be right there. I think I'll give those tracks you mentioned a listen and see if I find one I like.

EDIT: Ok, after wrestling with prboom-plus and my Doom2 IWADs odd deficency, I've checked out those demos using plutonia.wad on prboom-plus. The imp you saw was stuck presumably due to a lost soul hitting it, as usually its fine. Aside from that it all seems pretty good - thanks for the demos and quick reply. Seems you're pretty good at exploring and working out routes :)

EDIT2: Ok, I've looked at the music you suggested, and after a bit of playing around with ZDooms sound output I've actually listened to all 4 of them in the map, and I decided D_E2M4 was the best fit, so I've put that in there. I'll send that version of the map to TGH in a few days if I don't get anything to fix or change.

I also tried a UV speed run using the blue key route. 43 seconds on ZDoom... theoretically could be better, but I used all of the useful secrets for speed and had the benefit of mouselook, so I'm not too sure.

Last edited by Phobus on 11-18-08 at 18:10

Old Post 11-18-08 09:30 #
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Anima Zero
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Took a run through HNTR, HMP, and UV on this level. Quite a fun playthrough. Difficulty is just right for an early map I'd say with plenty of health and ammo.

There were cell packs, but no plasma gun. I'd assume this is to give the player extra ammo for the following levels or that they're meant only for co-op and were accidentally allowed to appear in single player.

Other than that, the levels looks good, plays well. I don't see anything that needs to be changed as it stands.

Old Post 11-20-08 13:23 #
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Phobus
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Cells available in single player are all there for later levels as bonuses for finding secrets or exploring the map. However, they do also serve a purpose in DM and co-op, as a plasma gun features in multiplayer in the centre of the rocky plateau part of the yellow key route. This is mostly for DM, but to balance that in co-op there's a cyberdemon there too.

Thanks for your time btw :)

My plans are to wait until Monday or Tuesday and then send the final version to TGH - the main difference being that I've put in D_E2M4 to replace D_COUNTD for the map. So it looks like I'm pretty much finished here :)

Old Post 11-20-08 20:30 #
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Phobus
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@TGH: I'm sending you a slight update to the map, as RjY has been through my map and found a slight visual error in one of the secrets. It just removes some things (type 80) and moves a player corpse, adding an imp corpse. This is all in the secret in the main room of the Third Section. This will be in an e-mail shortly I hope.

Old Post 01-17-09 23:17 #
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