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Joshy
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Slot: 30
Filename Code: CC4_Joshy
Texture Code: josh*
Custom MIDI: Hell Reigns Down by Earthquake
Credited: Josh 'Joshy' Sealy
Map Name: Ragnarok
_______________________________________________________________

Final Statistics for the geeks:

Linedefs: 7802
Sidedefs: 14089
Sectors: 933
Vertices: 6428


Okay I've started the map, it is inspired by a level called Absolute Evil (NDCP2), but I'm hoping it still has some originality in it. The surrounding scenery needs a lot more work, it will be easy to do once all the structures are done.

Some screenies to look at:
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/4706/25392337id4.th.jpghttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/156/79858252qr1.th.jpghttp://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1508/35728947ew9.th.jpghttp://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8977/71066604fw4.th.jpg

Cheers.

Last edited by Joshy on 07-13-10 at 08:53

Old Post 11-15-08 06:22 #
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esselfortium
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Looks nifty! I'd suggest brightening up the areas underneath F_SKY1, though, and using a light transfer on the lava to make it brighter, possibly fullbright. Everything looks really dim currently, other than the bright sky (which makes the map look even dimmer due to the contrast).

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Old Post 11-15-08 06:34 #
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Dutch Doomer
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Looks great it sure looks like you got inspiration from the NDCP2 version, your careful aligning of the gstone textures makes me happy.Sticking more effort into properly aligning textures really improves any map, no wierd cut offs I like that.

Good luck with the map.

Old Post 11-15-08 15:51 #
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Joshy
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Thanks for the comments. Sure is hard work aligning with the marbles, urgh. Fun though :) I'll definitely complete the map, I am immune to the CCCC (CommunityChest chronic curse). :p

I've done the lighting changes as you suggested Essel, I must say it is probably better. The floor has the light transfer, light intensity's maximum.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1961/11yz0.th.jpghttp://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7716/22xs3.th.jpg

Old Post 11-17-08 02:41 #
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Mechadon
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I love the GSTONE texture but I can't align it for shit :P. Looking great though, I love well-detailed hell maps :D

Old Post 11-17-08 05:44 #
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Lord_Z
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You have a great theme there, keep at it :)

Old Post 11-18-08 22:06 #
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Butts
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pretty nice, looking forward to it.

Old Post 11-20-08 03:22 #
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Joshy
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Thanks, it's sure great motivation reading the comments.

Progress: maybe around 25%

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6714/cc4gf2.th.jpg

Statistics:

Linedefs: 4445
Vertices: 3678
Sidedefs: 8250
Sectors: 564
Things: 369 (260+ monsters)

I'm trying to make this somewhat hard-ish but fun to do so. Plenty of health and ammo for a semi-slaughter at the start. My intent for this map is when the player has the two keys, then he can gain access to the castle where even harder obstacles will surface. The castle will be the residence of the baphomet. Surrounding environment will be done last for the polishing process.

Is Ragnorak a good name? It's a word for "doom of the gods" in scandivanian, I think...

Old Post 11-21-08 05:59 #
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andrewj
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Joshy said:
Is Ragnorak a good name? It's a word for "doom of the gods" in scandivanian, I think...

That name is quite overused imho, from wikipedia:


in video games:

* Ragnarok Online, a MMORPG
* Ragnarok Online 2, a MMORPG, sequel of Ragnarok Online
* Ragnarok (video game), a rogue-like computer game
* Ragnarok, a recurring name in the Final Fantasy video game series, usually being a weapon
* Ragnarok (MUD), a Multi-user Dungeon game available over telnet
* Ragnarok, in the Max Payne series, the name on which the nightclub "Ragna Rock" is based
* Ragnarok: The Search For Aasgard (and Ragnarok DM), a Doom level-pack currently in development by TeamTNT
etc.....

Old Post 11-21-08 06:10 #
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TheMionicDonut
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But has it been a map name?

Old Post 11-21-08 06:16 #
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Jimmy
doesn't rhyme with MIDI :(


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Other cool names include:

  • Styx, Lethe, Cocytus, Acheron, Phlegethon - all Greek mythology names for rivers in the underworld. Most of these have already been used in Doom mods at some point or another.
  • Hel, Niflheim, Muspell - parts of the Norse underworld. Hel might actually work better than it appears.
  • Tartarus, Gehenna - Greek underworld names.

That's all I got for now, but another quick cruise on Wikipedia could well unearth even more cool names (read: more names that are cool). :P

Last edited by Jimmy on 11-22-08 at 19:58

Old Post 11-22-08 19:50 #
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TheMionicDonut
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Ah, Tartarus. The extra special Bad hell in greek mythology. There had better be some guy pushing a boulder up a hill or you will have some unhappy customers.

Old Post 11-22-08 22:10 #
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Creaphis
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Dante's Inferno could also be mined for names, but both that and the Greek mythology vein are almost entirely depleted.

Old Post 11-22-08 22:38 #
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Joshy
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All good suggestions, but I have a nasty habit of not being able to decide with several good options.....

Initially I wanted to call the level 'The Awakening of Janus' (Two faced god of doorways, gates) but he isn't demonic enough.

I guess I'll just make Ragnorak the development name.

Old Post 11-24-08 01:00 #
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esselfortium
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The Awakening of Janis Joplin

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Old Post 11-24-08 02:08 #
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Creaphis
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esselfortium said:
The Awakening of Janis Joplin


Use that in the next 32in24.

Old Post 11-24-08 02:47 #
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Use3D
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I like the current name, I also like those screenshots!

Old Post 11-24-08 03:50 #
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Pure Hellspawn
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Very nice screenies. I would like to know if this is going to be a boss level or not (CC tradition I guess).

Old Post 01-20-09 07:03 #
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printz
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Good luck with the spitter! If done right it won't stink.

I like the name and I don't remember encountering it in Doom. To unknowers like me, Ragnarok sounds like big hell, or volcanic pits.

Old Post 01-20-09 17:22 #
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esselfortium
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Well, there has been some discussion of using dehacked/bex to create a new final boss to be used in place of the standard boss-spitter setup that we have a variant of at the end of just about every existing Doom 2 megawad. Possibly something with similar function to it, but as a big walking (or flying) monster with some nice custom sprites created for it.

But, of course, that's up to The Green Herring and the other CChest leaders to decide and work out, as well as what Joshy would be interested in doing, since it is his map30 after all.

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Old Post 01-20-09 17:30 #
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Satyr000
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The map looks great so far and I do love lava pit levels. As for the name I'd go for Muspell wich is the fire realm of the Norse hell's .

Old Post 01-20-09 18:04 #
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Joshy
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Thanks people! It will be a boss level.

The layout I have planned suits the demon spitter well, but it will work quite well with the new monster too. It would be good if someone can confirm if there will be a new monster or not..

Unfortunately as good as 'Awakening of Janis Joplin' is.. X-D, Ragnorak will most likely be the name.

At the moment, Speed of Doom is distracting me from this work. Gotta finish a few more maps for the project and get back to this in a jiffy.

EDIT: Múspellsheimr isn't bad either. Good suggestion
Satyr000!

Last edited by Joshy on 01-21-09 at 03:20

Old Post 01-20-09 22:28 #
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Pirx
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Joshy said:

EDIT: Múspellsheimr isn't bad either. Good suggestion
Satyr000!




here's some suggestions for you guys in search for map names:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...ological_places

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

Cantre'r Gwaelod, Irkalla, Lemuria, Mitnal sound pretty doomish.

also, see what has been used as a name:

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Category:Levels_by_name

Old Post 02-05-09 01:50 #
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Not Jabba
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Mitnal has been used, even though it looks like it's not on that list. Personally, I like Ragnarok just fine.

Old Post 02-06-09 00:24 #
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Joshy
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Finished the map. I've sent it to the testers.
No extra screenies, as it'll ruin the surprise. :P

Old Post 10-16-09 05:12 #
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justanotherfool
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Alright, I finally got around to having a look at this level.

I noticed a few HOMs in places. There was a bunch of them on the walls of the pit next to the two archviles right at the beginning, and some more on the steps leading up to the timed switches. These seem pretty glaring, so I had to wonder if I forgot to update my copy of the cc4 texture pack, but this doesn't seem to be the case. There are also some HOMs on the walls blocking the icons of sin before you hit the switch that reveals them.

I have a few points about the gameplay.
The running around on lava while fighting hordes of monsters dynamic is an interesting one, but I can't help but feel that a few more rad suits should be provided. Preferably in places other than the middle of a lake of molten fire with archviles :P. Maybe extend the mastermind room?

There are a few places (particularly early in the map) where health items, rad suits or ammo are placed right in front of doors, making it extremely difficult to navigate around the map without taking items you may not need.

It is not at all obvious that you must use the piece of wall next to the BFG in order to get to the red key. Something to indicate more clearly that the wall is usable would not go amiss here.

The only other part that I really had a problem with was the icons of sin fight. I think that two spawners is too many for such a small arena. The place becomes saturated with monsters very quickly, and it's difficult to believe that you can kill the icon quickly enough, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I admit I didn't even try.

If you fall into the lava pit at the bottom, there seems to be no way out, and the fact that there are only a few steps up to the next sector in the whole arena makes navigating extremely difficult. If something blocks your way to one of those steps, you haven't a chance of surviving. I'd probably make it so you can reach the next sector from any place on the floor of the arena by adding more steps (including the lava sector).

It is also not that obvious that you need to shoot the red switch while standing on the platform to give you a shot at Romero. Maybe if you recessed it in the wall so that you couldn't use it, shooting would be more obvious?

That's about all I have to say for now, on the whole it's a pretty nice map. I might have more points at a later date. Sorry for the delay.

Old Post 12-20-09 00:39 #
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justanotherfool
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A few more things, actually.

I think you must have tagged some sectors as secrets accidentally. There are apparently 7 secrets (according to the prboom-plus HUD) but in doom builder I can only see 4 that make sense as secrets. It looks like you tagged an additional 3 or so sectors that were connected to the platforms with the mancs on. For some reason even when you walk into the relevant sectors, the game doesn't register it.

I feel that the switch timer puzzle might be too severe. To get past in time you pretty much need to run full pelt across the narrow walkway. Even with a mouse it isn't always easy to get to the end before the timer runs out, could be even more difficult if you're a keyboarder. If you fall into the middle pool where the cacodemons await you can get out by triggering the wooden platforms, but if you fall off the other side you can't use the platforms, which is irritating because it can take a while (depending on where exactly you fall) to get to a teleporter then run back to the puzzle. Maybe consider making the platforms usable from both sides?

I also think you should make it so that if you manage to pass the first timed sector but don't make it past the second in time so you get stuck in the middle you can then use the back of the first sector which will lower and allow you to get back to the switches, as opposed to having to fall in the lava and reach the teleporter.

The last point is quite an important one. There are banisters/ledges/etc scattered all over the first half of the map that are impassible even when they shouldn't be. Nothing yanks you out of the gaming experience like running off a high ledge only to be stopped by a seemingly invisible wall covering a balcony you should be able to run over. Consider removing all of the impassible linedefs, since I don't really see what purpose they serve. This would also make the level more inviting for speedrunners.

Old Post 12-21-09 02:22 #
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justanotherfool
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Alright, checked out the most recent version once more. I felt it was quite a lot better, glad you decided to get rid of the thin walkways and the mysterious impassable lines :P

There are still a few things worth commenting on.

- I still don't think you left a clear enough indication of the existence of the room with the many archviles and the switch to get the RSK. Sure, you can argue that the map suggests its existence, but I'd prefer a clearer marker.

- Speaking of those archviles, I feel there are too many of them. Even if you know they're there and have the BFG, dealing with them isn't easy. Especially considering you'd probably run out of rad suits while killing earlier monsters.

- There are a bunch of glaring HOMs in different places. One of your custom textures doesn't load in prboom-plus. This'll probably be fixed later down the line, but it shouldn't be forgotten.

- I feel that some of your cliff faces are too sharp in places, and might look more natural if they were smoothed out a bit. I'll leave that at your discretion though.

- The rockface just above the lava pool next to the start room (with the imps/elementals/cacodemons) looks odd from certain angles. Think it's too high above the bit where the lavafall comes down from. I also seem to recall seeing some kind of HOM out the window of the blue key building.

- Don't like the two secrets past the red and blue switches. They require perfect timing to get. Quite frustrating. They'll mess up many a max recording, I should think.

- Last but not least, the boss fight. The monsters spawn far too fast. They have a habit of clustering around the shooting platform and preventing you from getting to it. If enough clustered around, you wouldn't be able to get off it, either. They also knock you off too easily, because of how close they can get. I've always disliked this kind of annoying timing puzzle. The most enjoyable map 30s tend to make you work hard to get to a certain vantage point, but once you're there you can easily pump rocket after rocket into the brain. This is more of a problem with the design of these icon of sin maps than with your map specifically, but if you're not prepared to change the style of the battle, there must be a few ways you can tone down the difficulty. At least getting around is no longer such a problem.

Apart from the very end, the map is awesome.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing I forgot. Those skull switches in the side rooms with the masterminds (just before the end area). I'm sure I complained about them in one of my earlier posts, but I really dislike them. They were probably the ugliest part of the map. Not a huge deal, since you only used them twice in these side rooms, but I really think those red cross switches you used elsewhere in the level would be a much better fit. Can't say I liked this texture when it was used in doom 2's map 30 either :/

As always, feel free to ignore parts of my critique you may not agree with. The missing textures are the only really crucial thing.

Last edited by justanotherfool on 07-08-10 at 20:46

Old Post 07-08-10 20:36 #
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tehdrunkdemon
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How many cubes does the Icon of Sin spit out at a time?

Old Post 07-19-10 21:26 #
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Joshy
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tehdrunkdemon said:
How many cubes does the Icon of Sin spit out at a time?
Used to be two, but I removed one. There's now one. Still hard enough though.

Old Post 07-20-10 02:32 #
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