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Vegeta
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Just got an idea. As the project is Boom compatible, but some may want some extra content (new monster) specially on the last map (icon of sin is getting old IMO), I think it'd be neat an optional wad that contains the last map of CC4 edited, with a new monster (BEX, DECORATE, whatever). So if you want the original thing you can play CC4.wad alone, but if you want a new boss at the end you can run CC4.wad with CC4patch.wad (or whatever name).
Perhaps including in the patch a MAPINFO that disables jumping in all maps.

Last edited by Vegeta on Nov 24 2008 at 21:39

Old Post Nov 24 2008 21:08 #
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esselfortium
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If it could be mandated that no maps use the SS Nazi, Commander Keen, or Boss Brain, their frames could be replaced to create a new boss monster as a BEX (Boom-Extended Dehacked) patch, which would be compatible with all ports that are capable of playing CC4 already.

One thing I think could be cool is if a large, walking (or flying, or otherwise moving) boss monster was created that spawned Icon of Sin cubes (possibly with their sprites changed into balls of energy or some such thing) that turned into monsters, so it'd have the same "attack" as the classic stationary Baphomet head, but it'd be a new monster in and of itself. It could also potentially have some sort of Scythe2-Afrit-ish attack in addition to that, or some such thing.

Old Post Nov 24 2008 21:27 #
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Creaphis
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Sounds awesome! I'm going to put five of them on MAP10.

Old Post Nov 24 2008 21:42 #
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esselfortium
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:P

Really the only issue I can think of is: what would we use for sprites? I can't really think of any custom monsters the size of the Cyberdemon or bigger that aren't lame edits, but if anyone can come up with some sprites that could be fitting (either as-is or with some modifications) it'd be cool. :)

Note that I wouldn't mind something that's an edit of Doom's or another game's monster(s), as long as it's not a spectacularly lame one. :P

Old Post Nov 24 2008 22:09 #
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Creaphis
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Too true. I've recently been spending some extra mental processing cycles by refining a monster concept, most easily summed up as the correct way to fill the blank in this sentence...

Baron of Hell is to Cyberdemon as Archvile is to __________.

...but I realize that the sprites aren't too likely to ever exist unless I somehow grow artistic ability. Shucks.



Maybe whoever is signed up for the map 30 slot has some input on what they'd like to see (or already has a new way for the player to shoot three rockets at Romero). But regardless of this project, it would be great to see some new beast lined up and ready for CC5.

Old Post Nov 24 2008 22:18 #
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glaber
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Map 16 already uses the SS Nazi for the time travel segment.

Old Post Nov 24 2008 23:18 #
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esselfortium
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I really, really, really, really don't think the Wolfenstein monsters and textures, or Commander Keen, or any of that Doom2-easter-egg stuff should be used in CC4. Or much of anywhere else, for that matter.

Old Post Nov 24 2008 23:29 #
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Aleaver
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esselfortium said:
I really, really, really, really don't think the Wolfenstein monsters and textures, or Commander Keen, or any of that Doom2-easter-egg stuff should be used in CC4. Or much of anywhere else, for that matter.

Agreed 100% there.

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Old Post Nov 25 2008 00:01 #
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Dutch Doomer
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An walking Baphomet would be great, and it would have to be bigger than any other monster.Because its an final boss it has to stand out from the rest, making it bigger than the rest would be an good thing to do.

Powerful attacks, wings, spawns new monsters, new sounds are some things that I think of right now.The cyberdemon sprites are imo an good base to work from, maybe Eriance could make one for CC4.

Old Post Nov 25 2008 00:20 #
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lupinx-Kassman
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I have also been wanting something like this as well, it would be undoubtedly awesome if done correctly. However, if mappers want to use SS Nazis and commander keens in their maps, I suppose that is really their choice :/.

Old Post Nov 25 2008 00:33 #
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esselfortium
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lupinx-Kassman said:
I have also been wanting something like this as well, it would be undoubtedly awesome if done correctly. However, if mappers want to use SS Nazis and commander keens in their maps, I suppose that is really their choice :/.

Nah, that's what rules, guidelines, and project leaders are for. :P

Old Post Nov 25 2008 00:39 #
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Joshy
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I welcome the new monster idea. Commander Keens and SS nazi ruins the feel of the megawad and instantly reminds us of Doom2 so new ones ftw IMO.

The way I am designing my map30 level with the icon of sin wall, it would actually work pretty well for the walking baphomet monster as long as I make some minor changes, it'll be awesome.

Old Post Nov 25 2008 01:05 #
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Nebula-Kristian
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Zen Dynamics had implemented the idea pretty well, if I remember correctly, only that it was a single texture of a huge baphomet and it was heavily scripted. And it disappeared and re-appeared from time to time. And if I remember reight it also bursted a huge flame attack towards the player when it was visible. Maybe it could be used as a base without the scripting etc and an animated baphomet would be made out of it if the author agrees on it?

Old Post Nov 25 2008 13:40 #
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Christoph
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Creaphis said:
Too true. I've recently been spending some extra mental processing cycles by refining a monster concept, most easily summed up as the correct way to fill the blank in this sentence...

Baron of Hell is to Cyberdemon as Archvile is to __________.

How about something that spawns archviles? Or a creature that can (instantaneously) teleport anywhere it wants to (where it can fit). Or something that fires a homing-missile-type projectile, or a deadly bullet that kills you pretty easily. (Maybe it stalks you like an assasin/sniper?). Or a ghostly monster that can float/clip through walls. Or something like the marine-bots (maybe not for a bad hell-boss though.) Just some random ideas for challenging/scary monsters..

Old Post Nov 25 2008 22:30 #
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Vermil
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A problem with having a moving spawn cube firing boss monster on Map30 is that it could potentially telefrag itself.

Old Post Nov 26 2008 00:06 #
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Creaphis
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Vermil said:
An insanely awesome way to end a megawad would be with a moving spawn cube firing boss monster that you have to trick into telefragging itself.

Fixed.

Old Post Nov 26 2008 02:09 #
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Vegeta
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The Bruiser from KDIZD has a head that looks close to the Baphomet.

Old Post Nov 27 2008 10:27 #
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Creaphis
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Let's end it with the DEIMOS GUARDIAN.

Everyone loves the Deimos Guardian.

Old Post Nov 27 2008 20:29 #
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esselfortium
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I love the Bruiser Demon, too, but at the end of a Doom2 megawad where the player's been fighting mancubi, arachnotrons, cyberdemons, and the like, a final boss about the size of a baron would be rather anticlimactic.

Creaphis said:
Let's end it with the DEIMOS GUARDIAN.

Everyone loves the Deimos Guardian.

fdsjalkghlkfs

Old Post Nov 27 2008 22:13 #
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Vegeta
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This is a very early sketch, but what do you think about it. It's supposed to be a classic DOOM version of the Motherdemon from DOOM 64. Which I think could fit here.

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/...thertestlo5.gif

I like the upper version better, and I think it needs a coloration.
I used the Wicked by Eriance, and the arms of the Archvile as a base.

Last edited by Vegeta on Dec 4 2008 at 19:04

Old Post Dec 4 2008 15:46 #
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esselfortium
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That's neat and all, but in addition to being rather small for a final boss, it's also visibly created from a patchwork of the Arch-Vile and one of Eriance's monsters.

Old Post Dec 4 2008 16:34 #
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Gez
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Maybe Eriance's Overlord sprites could be used to make a Super-Pain-in-the-ass-Elemental which spits spawn cubes. It's big, it flies, and it's a bit non-conventional for a ultimate boss monster.

Old Post Dec 4 2008 17:22 #
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Patrick
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MotherDemon from Doom 64?

Old Post Dec 4 2008 18:57 #
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Vegeta
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Yeah, a dream of mine is to see a reinterpretation of it into the classic DOOM theme (not just an adaption to the DOOM palette).

Old Post Dec 4 2008 19:05 #
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printz
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I have a simpler idea which can be done. How about cutting a goat-head texture, either from Doom 2 or Quake 3 Arena, and using that as a sprite for the final boss? This way it can still be called an icon of sin, while also being a true monster.

Another, less quick, idea: a ghost monster (demon->ghost transition) which, like archvile's ghosts, can only be killed with rockets (just like the original Doom2 boss). After fighting and winning over lots of solid demonic creatures, how about surviving now?

A Heretic boss may work too (doom->heretic transition), though a wizard would work better than a minotaur. And it would fail if the megawad uses Heretic elements in regular levels. Same for a Quake boss implementation (improved Shub-Niggurath II?). Not to forget Quake 2 or even 3 Arena (TankJr?).

In fact, the possibilities are ENDLESS, I wish that whichever comes up, it rocks.

Old Post Dec 4 2008 21:34 #
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Christoph
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The lower image looks great for something like the archvile but twice as deadly (can fly, and resurrect more monsters at a time, from a longer distance, and maybe have a different psychic attack (affects player's vision or movement?) or maybe an evil stare that rapidly drains your health...

EDIT: another idea for arch-archvile: whenever you damage it, a percentage of that damage is reflected back to you. END EDIT

The upper one looks like a possible hell-boss, if it were bigger and with the image re-worked but approximately similar (to look more demonic and muscular, and less snake-like).

Old Post Dec 4 2008 23:18 #
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Patrick
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Christoph said:
The lower image looks great for something like the archvile but twice as deadly (can fly, and resurrect more monsters at a time, from a longer distance, and maybe have a different psychic attack (affects player's vision or movement?) or maybe an evil stare that rapidly drains your health...

EDIT: another idea for arch-archvile: whenever you damage it, a percentage of that damage is reflected back to you. END EDIT

The upper one looks like a possible hell-boss, if it were bigger and with the image re-worked but approximately similar (to look more demonic and muscular, and less snake-like).

That's not all that possible with DeHackEd

Old Post Dec 4 2008 23:30 #
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lupinx-Kassman
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esselfortium said:
That's neat and all, but in addition to being rather small for a final boss, it's also visibly created from a patchwork of the Arch-Vile and one of Eriance's monsters.

While I agree with your other points about the particular sprites, I don't think the final boss has to be huge. A monster can still be made epic if kept in proportion to the marine.

Old Post Dec 5 2008 21:33 #
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Christoph
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Patrick Pineda said:
That's not all that possible with DeHackEd

I kind of assumed that, but are there any other ways to make innovative monsters?

Old Post Dec 5 2008 23:14 #
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DrKelexo
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I always liked the idea behind Icon of Sin (big monster that doesn't move, just creates other monsters) but it is a pretty annoying fight, or a really, really easy one depending. I think if there was a custom final boss, it should be a big, stationary one, or another wall-texture-monster, but it should have some other attacks, as well as being easy to shoot but just has a lot of health.

Old Post Jan 7 2009 05:33 #
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