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Torn
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Well, I finally got my ass off to do this one. :P
I got my inspiration back when my 3d mode in DB worked again after a reformat.
I guess it is about 5-10% done, but I can't put any procent on the progress. Here is a couple of screenshots. The map will be some kind of hell infested techbase (how original :P).

New screenshots. :)

Almost done!

Last edited by Torn on 11-02-10 at 20:30

Old Post 05-02-09 17:07 #
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Dutch Doomer
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The SP_HOT textures could use some better aligning, other than that it looks pretty damn sweet :)

Old Post 05-02-09 17:14 #
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Torn
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dutch devil said:
The SP_HOT textures could use some better aligning, other than that it looks pretty damn sweet :)


Well I am aligning them now. I hate to align gstone1, sp_hot1, etc. They are so annoying to align... :)

Old Post 05-02-09 17:28 #
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printz
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I usually keep gstone and sp_hot how they are, because I like how their bricks look irregular that way.

First screenshot looks like Plutonia, btw. That red sky, rounded opening with metal and cubic dirt, and wide wooden planks.

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Old Post 05-02-09 20:37 #
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Torn
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printz said:
I usually keep gstone and sp_hot how they are, because I like how their bricks look irregular that way.

First screenshot looks like Plutonia, btw. That red sky, rounded opening with metal and cubic dirt, and wide wooden planks.



Yeah I know. My first plan was also to create a plutonia lookalike map, but I wanted to have some hellish parts. :D

Old Post 05-03-09 19:01 #
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Torn
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*screenshots moved up to the top*

Still around 15-25%. The rest of the areas is filled with errors and stuff, the reason why I haven't taken a screenshot of these yet. :)

Last edited by Torn on 05-08-09 at 20:39

Old Post 05-06-09 00:26 #
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Capellan
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I really like the ceiling in that 2nd shot.

Old Post 05-06-09 00:41 #
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Torn
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Well, updated again with more screenshots. I don't know how far the map is now and it still lacks some detail in various areas. :)

Old Post 05-08-09 20:41 #
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Butts
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Nice.

Old Post 05-09-09 21:21 #
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Pure Hellspawn
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I'm not sure how I want to express this thought, but the screenshots remind me of a Map17-Map24 atmosphere. Perhaps put this map in a Map17-24 slot?

Old Post 05-12-09 02:12 #
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Christoph
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I'm kinda digging the zany, yet creative, textures combos in some of the shots (esp the "library" one). But I especially like the brown caves with sky-holes with vines hanging down - it just reeks of so much awesomeness. If the whole map revolved around that (brown cave) kind of atmosphere I would love it to death. But it's your map to make...

Old Post 05-27-09 12:53 #
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Torn
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Christoph said:
I'm kinda digging the zany, yet creative, textures combos in some of the shots (esp the "library" one). But I especially like the brown caves with sky-holes with vines hanging down - it just reeks of so much awesomeness. If the whole map revolved around that (brown cave) kind of atmosphere I would love it to death. But it's your map to make...


Well, it is kinda finished. It is a very small part of the map that is in the cave section. I haven't got around to finish it yet, the playtesters have sent in a buglist. Well, at least some of them have. :)

I guess I will reuse the cave style in my own megawad in one or few maps.

Old Post 05-28-09 01:22 #
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justanotherfool
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Well, I've been delayed for longer than I had anticipated, but I finally have something to say about the map, and hopefully I'll have a few points that the other testers didn't make.

As per usual, I tested in prboom-plus with a 2.5.x.x version (I forget), but I used zdoom 2.3.0 for the purpose of taking screenshots.

I didn't find that much in the way of bugs. The only real problem was that it seems 100% kills is unobtainable due to the fact that 5 monsters are missing. I didn't actually check this out in an editor, so I suppose it's possible that I missed 5 monsters, but I found all the secrets and played through the level multiple times, and there were always 5 monsters left at the end (according to the kills counter). I also spotted a HOM which I'll talk about later.

The only suggestion I have about the gameplay of the map is that you change the first cyberdemon fight. As it stands it's easy to just camp at the top of the stairs where the cyb can't hit you and pump rockets into its exposed head, as in the screenshot...
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3268/torn8.png

I do, however, think there are a lot of things that could be done to improve the aesthetics of the map. This is a long list...

1. The top of the teleporter is suspended in mid-air in the opening room. I think it would be better to remove the top of the teleporter or to add 'bars' connecting the bottom and the top of the teleporter
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5797/torn1.png

2. The wall in the courtyard looks strange because it's too low, allowing you to see that there's really nothing beyond it. Making it taller or maybe adding a bit of detail outside the wall would improve matters...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4607/torn3.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7338/torn5.png

3. This is a very minor point, but I feel that some of the ceiling sectors in the following screenshot dip too far...
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2201/torn4.png

4. Here's the HOM I spoke of earlier...
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4228/torn6.png

5. Here I don't like the switch texture, but more importantly the light fixtures look strange because they get cut off where the lights meet the ceiling, i.e there's an alignment problem.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4650/torn7.png

6. All of the 'brain' areas on your way to raising the invisible bridge look bad because the same textures have been used on the floor, ceiling and walls but they don't align properly. Maybe some different textures should be used here? Also, the lights look out of place in rooms of organic flesh, I think. If you were going to use them I'd prefer if the lights at least had metal borders instead of just putting a light flat in.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5081/torn9.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3158/torn10.png

7. The transition to the outdoor area here looks odd, due to the height differences involved... I also can't help but feel that the level would look so much better if all the doorways weren't so square. Some 'arches' would work wonders.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6005/torn11.png

8. The outdoor area here looks bizarre for a few reasons. It's hard to pinpoint what's the cause, but the part where the sky meets the wall looks odd. I think some more contrast is needed there. Maybe make the room indoor with lots of holes in the roof? Also the 'door' opposite where you come in looks like it might open at some stage but never does, and it's too blocky and too deep. Also, all the walls are so bare and the room as a whole is bland.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/175/torn12.png

9. This room also suffers from the same texture being used on ceiling/walls/floor with misalignment, and the ceiling is too bare.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3451/torn13.png

10. This door looks odd because of the black line on the wood texture below it. Maybe some little stone steps would be less jarring?
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3914/torn14.png

11. When you enter the library area, the room to the right (through the grating) is a little too bare, not that most players will spend a lot of time looking at it, especially with the lighting as it is. Also, the roof in the BFG secret is too high...
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5413/torn16.png
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1229/torn15.png

12. The big yard again looks a little strange for some reason. Maybe just doing something to smooth the transition between sky and wall (borders, etc) would make it look a lot better. I also think the shape is too blocky, in particular the part included in the screenshot..
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/55/torn18.png

13. The metal grating with flames would look a lot better if there wasn't a 90 degree turn. Make the wall curvier, perhaps?
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4421/torn17.png

14. I don't like the look of this room at all, and think things would look much better if you just had a mural in the wall instead...
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/421/torn19.png

15. The room beyond the red key door is too bare again, and it has the lights issue I pointed out earlier. Consider doing something to the walls in particular. The teleporter at the end looks great though.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2364/torn21.png

16. I like this room a lot, but I feel that the height of the sector separating the cave from the sky is too great. Also, it's too blocky to look natural.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9458/torn22.png

17. All the side rooms in the cave area look extremely bland by comparison with the cave as a whole. There are texture misalignments, and the floors and (even worse) the ceilings are all the same heights...
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5714/torn23.png
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8720/torn25.png

18. This room is nice enough, but again the ceiling is too flat.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8463/torn24.png

That's all I've got. Apart from the issues I raised, I think the map looks good and plays well. I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this. It's pretty late where I am, so if I seem incoherent that's my excuse.

Old Post 06-09-09 04:42 #
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Torn
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justanotherfool said:
Well, I've been delayed for longer than I had anticipated, but I finally have something to say about the map, and hopefully I'll have a few points that the other testers didn't make.

As per usual, I tested in prboom-plus with a 2.5.x.x version (I forget), but I used zdoom 2.3.0 for the purpose of taking screenshots.

I didn't find that much in the way of bugs. The only real problem was that it seems 100% kills is unobtainable due to the fact that 5 monsters are missing. I didn't actually check this out in an editor, so I suppose it's possible that I missed 5 monsters, but I found all the secrets and played through the level multiple times, and there were always 5 monsters left at the end (according to the kills counter). I also spotted a HOM which I'll talk about later.




They have got fixed, I will comment on the Hom when I come to it. But probably many of these have got fixed.




The only suggestion I have about the gameplay of the map is that you change the first cyberdemon fight. As it stands it's easy to just camp at the top of the stairs where the cyb can't hit you and pump rockets into its exposed head, as in the screenshot...
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3268/torn8.png




Well, I dunno what to do about this one. I will think about it. I am not sure what other enemy I would replace him with.



I do, however, think there are a lot of things that could be done to improve the aesthetics of the map. This is a long list...

1. The top of the teleporter is suspended in mid-air in the opening room. I think it would be better to remove the top of the teleporter or to add 'bars' connecting the bottom and the top of the teleporter
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5797/torn1.png




Don't forget it is a hell map, a hellish tech-base. I can whatever I want. :P It was done that on purpose, like the teleports in episode 3 in ultimate doom. So I am not gonna fix that one.



2. The wall in the courtyard looks strange because it's too low, allowing you to see that there's really nothing beyond it. Making it taller or maybe adding a bit of detail outside the wall would improve matters...
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4607/torn3.png
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7338/torn5.png




My idea in the start was to put mountains there, maybe I will do that. But again in my head you can do many things in hell maps you can't do in other maps. Also one I will think about.



3. This is a very minor point, but I feel that some of the ceiling sectors in the following screenshot dip too far...
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2201/torn4.png




Well, I don't know to say to this one. It is just details and I don't think it fucks up the gameplay, which is most important. Maybe I will edit it...



4. Here's the HOM I spoke of earlier...
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4228/torn6.png

[QUOTE]

Sorry but I don't see the HOM, care to explain?

[QUOTE]
5. Here I don't like the switch texture, but more importantly the light fixtures look strange because they get cut off where the lights meet the ceiling, i.e there's an alignment problem.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4650/torn7.png



Again it is minor things and again I don't know to say. I like it as it is now really. But I remember what you said, maybe I will replace it with something else



6. All of the 'brain' areas on your way to raising the invisible bridge look bad because the same textures have been used on the floor, ceiling and walls but they don't align properly. Maybe some different textures should be used here? Also, the lights look out of place in rooms of organic flesh, I think. If you were going to use them I'd prefer if the lights at least had metal borders instead of just putting a light flat in.
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5081/torn9.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/3158/torn10.png



Refer to what I said above this.



7. The transition to the outdoor area here looks odd, due to the height differences involved... I also can't help but feel that the level would look so much better if all the doorways weren't so square. Some 'arches' would work wonders.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6005/torn11.png
[QUOTE]

Okay, there you have a point. :) I guess I will use some arches at openings like this.

[QUOTE]
8. The outdoor area here looks bizarre for a few reasons. It's hard to pinpoint what's the cause, but the part where the sky meets the wall looks odd. I think some more contrast is needed there. Maybe make the room indoor with lots of holes in the roof? Also the 'door' opposite where you come in looks like it might open at some stage but never does, and it's too blocky and too deep. Also, all the walls are so bare and the room as a whole is bland.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/175/torn12.png

Okay I will look into this. I think a simple border would be enough.

[QUOTE][B]
9. This room also suffers from the same texture being used on ceiling/walls/floor with misalignment, and the ceiling is too bare.
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3451/torn13.png



Well, you are right that the ceiling is a bit bare. But I can't do much about the alignment... Except maybe at the window.



10. This door looks odd because of the black line on the wood texture below it. Maybe some little stone steps would be less jarring?
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3914/torn14.png



Yeah, you are right. It look a bit weird. I will see what I can do about that one.



11. When you enter the library area, the room to the right (through the grating) is a little too bare, not that most players will spend a lot of time looking at it, especially with the lighting as it is. Also, the roof in the BFG secret is too high...
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5413/torn16.png
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1229/torn15.png



The first shot: I am not gonna do anything about it.
The second shot: Yeah I guess I should lower the ceiling, I forgot why it was so high in the first place.



12. The big yard again looks a little strange for some reason. Maybe just doing something to smooth the transition between sky and wall (borders, etc) would make it look a lot better. I also think the shape is too blocky, in particular the part included in the screenshot..
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/55/torn18.png

Yeah I guess I will use a simple border. About being too blocky, maybe. I will check into this too.

[QUOTE][B]
13. The metal grating with flames would look a lot better if there wasn't a 90 degree turn. Make the wall curvier, perhaps?
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/4421/torn17.png



I guess I will check that togther with the stuff above this sentence.



14. I don't like the look of this room at all, and think things would look much better if you just had a mural in the wall instead...
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/421/torn19.png



Well, I like that one. Ulimate doom influences my mapping in hell maps alot, so I think it has got to stay. But I will think about it (Okay wrote that sentence alot, but many of those things is a stuck part of my mapping).



15. The room beyond the red key door is too bare again, and it has the lights issue I pointed out earlier. Consider doing something to the walls in particular. The teleporter at the end looks great though.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2364/torn21.png
[B]


Okay, I guess I can add some more details if it doesn't influence the gameplay.



16. I like this room a lot, but I feel that the height of the sector separating the cave from the sky is too great. Also, it's too blocky to look natural.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/9458/torn22.png

17. All the side rooms in the cave area look extremely bland by comparison with the cave as a whole. There are texture misalignments, and the floors and (even worse) the ceilings are all the same heights...
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5714/torn23.png
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8720/torn25.png

18. This room is nice enough, but again the ceiling is too flat.
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8463/torn24.png



About the "open" cave. Yeah maybe it is too blocky.
Oh well, I don't know about making cave stuff in there.


]
That's all I've got. Apart from the issues I raised, I think the map looks good and plays well. I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this. It's pretty late where I am, so if I seem incoherent that's my excuse.



Okay, that is cool. But it sure is many things you want me to change, as it is not really "bugs" as you said.

Old Post 06-10-09 03:55 #
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justanotherfool
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Yeah, I was probably far too pedantic with some of those points. A lot of them are the kinds of things you wouldn't really notice if you were casually playing through the map, but I tend to look closely when I'm testing one. I'm not really as detail obsessed as some of my testing posts might suggest :P ...

Even if you weren't going to implement any of the changes it would still be a very nice map, and hopefully the points that we do agree on will make it all the better.

About the HOM, I was worried it wasn't going to show up clearly in the screenshot, but if you fire up the map and check the area in the screenshot yourself you should hopefully see it. In particular, focus on where the wall meets the main building.

Old Post 06-10-09 20:38 #
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Torn
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Well, I have no inspiration for bug fixing atm, so I will check into it late this month or something like that.

Old Post 06-11-09 09:48 #
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TheMionicDonut
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8 month bump for stuff, if the map is so close to completion, why isnt it in the alpha? :P

Old Post 02-26-10 06:13 #
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The Green Herring
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Because for whatever reason, Torn hasn't submitted his level to me. :(

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Old Post 02-26-10 06:25 #
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Torn
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Sorry folks. I got bored of doom for a while. I kinda got bugged by the huge bug report, heh. If anyone care to fix the bugs, it would be a pleasure for me. :P

Old Post 04-29-10 19:33 #
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Dutch Doomer
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Shouldn't playtesters only test the gameplay part of an map, and not about how the map looks.

Old Post 04-29-10 21:46 #
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Torn
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Hey. Yeah I will post it here.

Get the finished map here

The map is fixed and has got somet things added by kassman, thanks!

Old Post 11-02-10 20:32 #
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RjY
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Yay I remember testing this. Thanks for finishing it up at last! Thanks to Kassman as well :)

Old Post 11-02-10 21:04 #
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[WH]-Wilou84
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Great map Torn !
Played it under PrBoom, the only problem I had was that 5 Arachnotrons were somehow blocked outside of the map.
I'll send you a more lengthy report by the end of the week.

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Old Post 11-02-10 21:49 #
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justanotherfool
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[WH]-Wilou84 said:
Great map Torn !
Played it under PrBoom, the only problem I had was that 5 Arachnotrons were somehow blocked outside of the map.
I'll send you a more lengthy report by the end of the week.



Yes, that was the biggest issue I encountered under a recent version of prboom-plus. This makes 100% kills impossible (without noclip) and you can also hear the arachnotrons traipsing around throughout the entire map, which becomes incredibly annoying quite quickly.

There were also a few texture misalignments I noticed here and there. I took a few screenshots.

http://yfrog.com/0qdoom01pp
http://yfrog.com/c9doom05p
http://yfrog.com/mwdoom06p
http://yfrog.com/9gdoom08p

There are also a few gameplay issues, which I believe I raised before, but I still feel them to be valid.

- I still don't see why the two secret areas just before the outside yard with the revs/cacs are secrets at all. One of them is a soulsphere (I think) lying in the middle of an open hallway which you reach by opening a door in the room beside the yard. The other one is a mega armour which is revealed after taking the first item, but it's impossible to miss. Neither of the items are hidden at all, and there's no need for them to be secrets when you have 6 others.

- http://yfrog.com/mydoom03p
The first cyberdemon: just a boring exercise in standing at the top of a staircase where it can't hit you and pumping it full of plasma and rockets. If you did try to go down the stairs to fight it 'fairly' you'd almost certainly be killed by the splash damage in such a narrow stairway, so the player is almost forced to camp at the top. Why have such a dull and plain unnecessary fight there?

- http://yfrog.com/jwdoom04p
Why does the BFG sector hurt you? If you're going to have a sector which damages the player, you should at least indicate this with the choice of floor texture. The ceiling seems to have some kind of lava texture, but it doesn't catch the eye, and even if it did, it wouldn't serve as an indicator.

Some very minor aesthetic issues...

- http://yfrog.com/47doom00dp
http://yfrog.com/cbdoom02p
I think these liftside switches would benefit from having a border between them and the rest of the wall (1st shot) or lift (2nd shot) since these textures don't flow seamlessly into each other, and the contrast is too much. Or just pull a little bit of wall out by 8 units in each of the above shots to emphasise that these are actually separate bits of wall made of separate materials.

A bigger aesthetic issue...

- I notice that in the first half or so of the map there are a lot of computer panel textures in the walls. These quite bother me, because they look rather out of place in what is otherwise a pretty standard hell base with no sign of machinery in sight. It just looks like you decided the walls were too bare and chose the rather generic solution of putting some computer panels in the wall, even if they weren't thematically consistent with the rest of the map.

If it were my map, I'd change them to something more in keeping with the surroundings, but of course, it's not. Fortunately this isn't a big issue since these panels only appear near the start of the map, and soon disappear entirely, but I nonetheless found it quite jarring.

Apart from that, the map looks quite a bit more polished than it was in its last incarnation, and apart from the arachnotrons any the other improvements will be relatively superficial, so I don't really have anything more to say about it, I think. Congratulations on the map.

Old Post 11-10-10 20:13 #
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RjY
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On skill 2 the teleporter to the invulnerability doesn't work, as the exit point in sector 403 isn't flagged to appear.

There are three teleporter exits in sector 671. As I am sure you are aware, teleporter exits don't work that way. The arachnotrons once moved back to where they are obviously supposed to go teleport one at a time to the lowest-numbered exit point.

I also agree that cyberdemon at the bottom of the stairs in sector 261 is just a waste of plasma.

Old Post 03-15-11 11:42 #
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Hirogen2
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The zip package is no longer retrievable. Being tester, I'd appreciate if it was made available to me for comments.

Old Post 03-31-11 14:40 #
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