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SonidoSpeed
Warming Up


Posts: 24
Registered: 08-10


hey, i played most of the map, and maybe it's just me, but i believe there should be a little more ammo. taking into consideration most of the vantage points of most monsters can easily cause many nervous misfires, and even when you do stock carefully, the chore of herding the Hell knights in for accurate shots becomes tedious.

besides that, excellent design and devious monster placement...you bastard (joking)

EDIT: also, i had to play it in skulltag. possibly from my lack of know-how from the doom engines maybe but i tried to execute it with gl/prboom, however it will not start due to

gl: 4 errors

pr: 75 errors

all textures. even in ST it said it had a incomplete BSP tree. maybe you can help.

Last edited by SonidoSpeed on 06-05-11 at 13:40

Old Post 06-05-11 13:34 #
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Mithran Denizen
Senior Member


Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10



SonidoSpeed said:
also, i had to play it in skulltag. possibly from my lack of know-how from the doom engines maybe but i tried to execute it with gl/prboom, however it will not start due to

gl: 4 errors

pr: 75 errors

all textures. even in ST it said it had a incomplete BSP tree. maybe you can help.

How were you loading it with PrBoom? I was able to run it fine from the command line, though the way I set up the new texture might require you to load the CC4 resource wad first, and then the map. I assume that you are loading the texture wad, right? I'm not sure what to make of the BSP tree error though, as I encountered no such problem when I was testing.

The only other thing I can think of is that Gmail seems to have corrupted or truncated the wad when I attached it to the emails that I sent out; nobody else has complained about it though, so it might just be on my end. If you're using the wad I attached to the email, try the one that I linked to in the PMs instead. In any case, I'll look into it further when I get home. If it still won't work, I can send you a newer copy.

Thanks for the feedback about the ammo balance as well; I found it to be too plentiful, so I actually cut down the number of shells and bullets a bit in the newest build, while increasing the number of rockets and cells. If you could perhaps record a demo or something (even just a more detailed explanation might do) so that I can see where you're running out, that'd be helpful. Also, what skill level did you play on? I tried to keep the ammo balanced on all of them, but as it stands, the larger number of shotgunners might actually make UV the most forgiving difficulty in some rooms.

taking into consideration most of the vantage points of most monsters can easily cause many nervous misfires, and even when you do stock carefully, the chore of herding the Hell knights in for accurate shots becomes tedious.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by either of these points. I guess you are saying that the enemies who have a height advantage are harder to hit, and therefore warrant more ammo, but I'm not sure which monsters in particular you mean. I don't know what you mean about the tedium of killing Hell knights specifically, as I tried to keep their numbers few (there's only ~10 at most) so that they don't slow down the pace; if you're getting bored killing them, then I've seemingly failed. Again, if you tell me which area you were in, I can possibly tweak it around a bit.

In any case, thanks for the feedback so far!

Last edited by Mithran Denizen on 06-05-11 at 20:52

Old Post 06-05-11 20:44 #
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Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 802
Registered: 07-09


I have the same error in my map with the BSP Tree it's happens with levels lacking a blockmap.

Old Post 06-05-11 22:19 #
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Mithran Denizen
Senior Member


Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10


Okay, I've made another round of changes after recieving RjY's very helpful feedback, and the completed map has been sent to The Green Herring, since the amount of free time I'll have to tweak it further over the next month is pretty much nil anyway.

Thanks for the feedback everybody, with any luck the map won't need any other pressing alterations.

Old Post 07-17-11 09:30 #
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The Green Herring
Community Chest 4 Leader


Posts: 1245
Registered: 05-07


The level has now been incorporated into the megawad and marked as finished. It's a non-linear level which manages to incorporate many of Boom's special effects without seeming out of place or broken, and the secret design is pretty clever. I've PMed Mithran Denizen with some concerns, but otherwise, I liked it. Excellent work!

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Get Community Chest 4 here!

Old Post 07-17-11 21:00 #
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TheStiCat
Green Marine


Posts: 48
Registered: 04-11


I like the frozen outdoor area shots best. :)

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Old Post 07-17-11 23:34 #
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MegaDoomer
Loser


Posts: 391
Registered: 01-10


I have two issues with this level (from playtesting):

-Only the blue key is needed. Simple fix would be lock the exit door with the red key - it even already has textures surrounding it indicating it may need a red key.

-It was slightly short on ammo.

Otherwise good design, good architecture, nice map that would be excellent with these two changes. :)

Old Post 08-15-11 17:07 #
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RjY
anARCHy


Posts: 978
Registered: 05-02


MegaDoomer: I am led to understand that the key placement is intentional. (With considerable accompanying explanation. It's clear Mithran Denizen spent time thinking about it☺)

Old Post 08-15-11 20:32 #
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Snakes
Senior Member


Posts: 2397
Registered: 09-09


I actually like it better with the optional key, either way.

Old Post 08-15-11 21:23 #
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MegaDoomer
Loser


Posts: 391
Registered: 01-10


Then I guess leave the optional key as is, but a little more ammo (or a non-secret RL/Plasma Gun) would be nice.

Old Post 08-15-11 21:33 #
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Mithran Denizen
Senior Member


Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10


I've considered both of these points before you brought them up, but for the most part, I think I've already settled on the way they are. As RjY alludes, I could type out an essay about why I've set up the red door and key in their current positions, but I'll try to keep it succint: suffice to say that both are intended to be entirely optional, with the red door allowing an alternate (and potentially safer) route to the exit for players who have decided to explore the (likewise optional) southern sections.

Locking the exit with a red door is an interesting idea, but I set out to make a map that could be quickly exited, and doing so would detract from that. I also like having a number of areas which are totally unneeded for a quick run, but which a player could explore if they were motivated to, and so I don't want to force the player to go through the tunnels around the red key just to complete the map.


I am more open to tweaking the ammo balance, though I'd still rather not at this point. Ammunition is meant to be somewhat scarce on UV, as this is quite simply the way I like my maps. My intent is that if you don't keep moving through the map to collect more, you'll start to run dry quickly. I made sure that there is still more than enough to max the level, of course, though some of it may require a little exploration to find (as do most of the monsters, anyway). There is also a reasonably accessible berserk pack that can be used to dispatch the hordes of imps and demons without much effort, as an extra bonus.

Aside from that, you can also try a lower skill setting if you want more ammo. Somewhere during revision I think I decided to balance it a bit more generously on HMP and below as an alternative, since I anticipated that some players might gripe about the scarcity that I personally enjoy.

I do appreciate the input, though, and I'd be interested in hearing some other opinions about the ammo balance and placement, since most of the testers didn't really mention the ammo situation one way or the other, as far as I can recall. If the majority view is that it's indeed too stingy, then it'd probably be best to go against my instincts and add some spare shells and bullets in a few places.

Old Post 08-16-11 09:31 #
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MegaDoomer
Loser


Posts: 391
Registered: 01-10



Mithran Denizen said:
I've considered both of these points before you brought them up, but for the most part, I think I've already settled on the way they are. As RjY alludes, I could type out an essay about why I've set up the red door and key in their current positions, but I'll try to keep it succint: suffice to say that both are intended to be entirely optional, with the red door allowing an alternate (and potentially safer) route to the exit for players who have decided to explore the (likewise optional) southern sections.

Locking the exit with a red door is an interesting idea, but I set out to make a map that could be quickly exited, and doing so would detract from that. I also like having a number of areas which are totally unneeded for a quick run, but which a player could explore if they were motivated to, and so I don't want to force the player to go through the tunnels around the red key just to complete the map.


I am more open to tweaking the ammo balance, though I'd still rather not at this point. Ammunition is meant to be somewhat scarce on UV, as this is quite simply the way I like my maps. My intent is that if you don't keep moving through the map to collect more, you'll start to run dry quickly. I made sure that there is still more than enough to max the level, of course, though some of it may require a little exploration to find (as do most of the monsters, anyway). There is also a reasonably accessible berserk pack that can be used to dispatch the hordes of imps and demons without much effort, as an extra bonus.

Aside from that, you can also try a lower skill setting if you want more ammo. Somewhere during revision I think I decided to balance it a bit more generously on HMP and below as an alternative, since I anticipated that some players might gripe about the scarcity that I personally enjoy.

I do appreciate the input, though, and I'd be interested in hearing some other opinions about the ammo balance and placement, since most of the testers didn't really mention the ammo situation one way or the other, as far as I can recall. If the majority view is that it's indeed too stingy, then it'd probably be best to go against my instincts and add some spare shells and bullets in a few places.



The key setup may be left as is. I vote that it's too stingy though on UV.

Old Post 08-16-11 12:02 #
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