Final Boss

HAMMER-STROKE said:

who said the boss will be in hell..

you go for a side trip to hell.. so a couple of levels in hell and then back out off the gate and back on the uac mars base

EWWWWW, HELL NO

If I'm in Hell, I want to fucking STAY IN HELL dammit

HAMMER-STROKE said:

who said the boss will be in hell..

you go for a side trip to hell.. so a couple of levels in hell and then back out off the gate and back on the uac mars base

Where's the excitement in THAT? I mean, one of the things that made Doom II so frightening was (a) You had to literally "go to hell" in order to stop the further invasion of the demonic forces on Earth (b) Hell had an environment of its own with interesting textures and atmostpheres, ie the twisting nether sky, the stretched skull designs or the tormented souls design (c) Since you were in Hell, there were a helluva lot more demons running around and popping up to bite your ass out of nowhere. Personally, I think Doom III should follow a similar pattern in the way the story/play is developed:

Scifi(UAC base) > Scifi/Horror(UAC base overrun w/ demons and the demonic influence) > Horror(Hell)


...IMHO.

You know, If the boss is like any of these descriptions, the person who thought of it will be pretty disappointed... I'd want to be surprised by what the boss is, and how it attacks. Not know everything about it beforehand.

MaCvILeWhOrE said:

EWWWWW, HELL NO

If I'm in Hell, I want to fucking STAY IN HELL dammit

I know.. so do I.. but thats what I understood about the side trip to hell thing

The final boss should be a possessed Commander Keen.

It make sense that Hell would only be a side trip, since even the toughest marine wouldn't want to stay in hell. The big boss will probably follow him out though.

I wouldn´t care wether a marine wants to stay in hell or not, but hell just as a side strip would suck from the dramaturgic point of view.

Having the boss fight inside a space station would suck imo - it just isn't Doom.

What about u meet the boss outside, on mars. That would rock! Imagine this, huge creature ( like about 100 meters tall ) . Mars landscape, stars everywhere.

What about no boss at all? What if ID came up with some other kind of climax?
Would that be possible? The whole idea of a boss is kind of cheesy. It's been done over, and over again.. It would be nice to see if ID came up with something superoriginal.

Disorder said:

What about no boss at all? What if ID came up with some other kind of climax?
Would that be possible? The whole idea of a boss is kind of cheesy. It's been done over, and over again.. It would be nice to see if ID came up with something superoriginal.

Nooooooo I want boss!!! everyone wants boss, exept u lol.

generally any final challenge is seen as a boss, but i think disorder is right. I like the idea of a masive boss on the mars landscape with only stars and red rock. but how would you breathe?

Disorder said:

What about no boss at all? What if ID came up with some other kind of climax?
Would that be possible? The whole idea of a boss is kind of cheesy. It's been done over, and over again.. It would be nice to see if ID came up with something superoriginal.

Interesting concept, but it'd be a bitch to come up with something thats actually a good enough climax. I always find it more satisfying to down a large boss than to figure some puzzle or other... although a mixture would be excellent.

Xian said:

but how would you breathe?

Is that, or is that not a full-face helmet with what looks to be breathing aparatus near the mouth cover that the guy is wearing?

It would appear so, but then again, it could be just a NBC set and not an actual oxygen respirator. I don't think it's the latter as iD have said in previews that there will be scenarios where you (the player) will be sucked out by an airlock and have to find shelter fast before you suffocate.

This "huge, final boss" concept is getting to simple for a game to end. Would a puzzle really be too boring, or is everyone tired of solving things in Doom?

Everything will feel differently, because of the new graphics (!?). Can't we get some info on this before it's released? Gah, dumb question.

Disorder said:

What about no boss at all? What if ID came up with some other kind of climax?
Would that be possible? The whole idea of a boss is kind of cheesy. It's been done over, and over again.. It would be nice to see if ID came up with something superoriginal.

There has to be a boss or big battle as a final resort sent to prevent you from closing the portal - it's not as if Hell is understaffed. It would be good if you faced the demon (hopefully a big balrog) that initiated the invasion in the first place.

Having said that, it would be nice to see some mental challenge to prevent you from completing the game - something to mess with your head even more so than what has passed before.

GS-1719 said:

it's not as if Hell is understaffed.

LMAO.

something to mess with your head even more than it has before.

I thought that's what doom3 was going to be all about...

Heh what about lots of small demons. U kill 2, they become a liquad, and transform into 1 bigger demon. This keeps going on, till 1 big demon stays on. The combination's you're getting are endless. 3 same sized demons, 1 small and 2 big demons etc etc etc. Depends which demon you'll kill first.

Xian said:
generally any final challenge is seen as a boss, but i think disorder is right. I like the idea of a masive boss on the mars landscape with only stars and red rock. but how would you breathe?

That is one way to spice up a boss fight: by making the environment hostile. For example: Duke Nukem 3D had an underwater baddy as its episode 4 boss, so you had to kill it before you ran out of air. Shadow Warrior featured a rolling platform suspended above a long drop as its last arena (I know, not a very good example). In lots of games all kinds of other monsters roam in the arena as well, to prevent you from totally focussing on the boss. In short: make the arena fit to the end-boss, and not to the player. Nothing like ruining a good boss fight by placing big pillars all over the arena for the player to hide behind.

Solving a puzzle before facing / being able to face the boss is a good idea too, as long as you get to actually shoot it dead. Stuff like Quake's two (!) flip-the-switch-and-we-die bosses is NOT satisfying at all. And by puzzle I mean: finishing an objective that is tied in with the nature of the end-boss, and not the jump-through-hoops kind of thing featured in SAM. For example: in a buddhist-themed FPS (heh) preventing the boss from being reincarnated / resurrected after defeat, or start all over.

Or you could set 'special conditions' on the Boss arena. Batman Doom did this, with a fists-only end-fight. SAM sometimes features a fight with a large group of small monsters instead of one big baddy, but for obvious reaons that probably won't happen for Doom3.

Thing is, there has to be something 'special' about the final boss. At the end of the game, the player is LOADED with high-powered weapons and usually the ammo that goes with it. The most simple solutions to deal with that (by increasing the boss hitpoints and/or by making the boss's attack extremely powerfull) have been done countless times before, so it would be nice to have something more original here.

I'd like to see a rehash of the icon of sin (don't hurt me) that's lodged in the installation's power core, and feeding off of it to produce demons. Instead of being that face, it should be more like a huge black stone gargoyle. After defeating the Icon of sin, it explodes into many tiny bits (shrapnel, anyone?), revealing the huge Uberdemon that It was nearly done producing. If you hadn't destroyed the icon of sin at that time, it would have been totally invulnerable. In short:

Icon of sin (Puzzle)

Abyssal Savant (Shoot like friggin' mad)

I like the idea of a puzzle that needs to be solved in order to get to the boss. The idea of a hostile environment is so-so. It depends on how it's done. In Q1 Mp2: Dissolution of Eternity, the final boss fight was tough - but very often more annoying than fun because you could die from falling into lava due to earthquakes.
I prefer the idea that the boss can manipulate with the environment - harm the boss and you may prevent it from making "natural disasters" around you, so whenever it shoots at you (with some powerful attack - the good ol' method), forcing you to seek cover and breaking off your attacks, it'll make the environment hostile somehow.

I'd also like to see some sort of minor puzzle that you must solve to make the boss vulnurable to your attacks somehow.

I mostly agreed with Mordeth`s idea.puzzle should be required too.
I do like huge Boss too.however huge boss=huge target to shoot.the boss should have a weak point to shoot.
The boss should have heavy and light armor.the player can break any part of this armor.They can aim on broken armor partto cause more damage than non-broken armor part.

A overgrown john carmack

There definately needs to be a final boss in D3. About the cyberdemon being old as a boss... it was only the boss of E2, after that (especially in Final Doom) he just became another monster, except when you ran into one you were like, oh fuck, not again. I agree with the environment thing, but not like the fighting on mars thing (unless you do have your own oxygen supply). The final boss should be big, powerful, extremely dangerous, obviously, and someone said to have the interactive environment, that it can destroy stuff that you would hide behind. The puzzle thing is good too, but should be before the boss, possibly something like if you don't do something to get to the boss in time he's gonna go out and cause Hell on Earth, and god damned right the fight should be in Hell, but you need to get back out in case x many years from now they want to make yet another Doom.

You mean 'Doom ]||[: Hell On Earth'?

Right^. There's ways to make an ending so that there's no loose ends, and still leave some sneaky way to do another game.