Doom 3-Wish List (If this has already been done then please delete this. t/y)

revenant_fister said:

8. Nah, the revenants were hilarious. Whoever came up with the concept of skeletons that wear a fetching combination of shoulder pads and red cycling shorts deserves a medal. Oh, and lets not forget the shoulder mounted rocket launchers..

sadly, the 'shorts' are actually blood, as far as i can tell. zoom in on the sprites and check it out.

pregnant with worms said:

sadly, the 'shorts' are actually blood, as far as i can tell. zoom in on the sprites and check it out.

Yeah, bloody bones. I don't see the revenant as comical at all.

Sigh, yet another CS bashing.

Anyways, my wish list:

1) Less scripted scenes and more interactivity. This will increase the replay value of the game immensely and make it all the more immersive. I would like to think that monsters would pop out of corners and react differently if you approach them differently. That is to say, the first time you enter a room, you run in like a hero and a demon jumps at you and kills you to death. You respawn, enter taht same room, this time hugging the walls and using the shadows to conceal yourself. This time the demon is oblivious of your presence. You come behind him and...well...you know the rest. Moreover, it would make it all the more intimidating if the demons would just jump out of unimaginable areas and it was part of the gameplay and not just a scripted scene like the screenies suggest. That pinky tearing through the wall was cool at first, but it would be kind of lame and predictable had it popped from that same area every time you crossed it. Now imagine if you respawn and it DOESN'T COME OUT! I would be shitting in my pants and expecting it to come out anytime.

2) More Ranged and "hellish" looking Demons. Lets face it, the original doom in terms of its design of demons and their attack was just brilliant. Not one single demon was lame and each provoked an "OMG" response. Doom3 has awesome looking demons, don't get me wrong, but no where near the kind we first encountered in doom. I am also hoping that there are more ranged attack demons.

3) Birdman...this looks awesome. Nuff said.

4) A slightly more "hellish" environment. I know the original doom was more or less in confined areas in halls, inducing that claustrophobic feeling. However, its environment was something which was out of a nightmare. Pentagrams, skulls, hanging limbs and bloody walls, it raelly gave the impression that you were in hell. I would like to see the same thing in doom3, less machinery, more gibs and "hellish" imagery. Nothing in the video suggests this, but then again the video probably didn't show the advanced levels. In doom, these things started to appear in the second episode.

revenant_fister said:
4. M16s are fucking lame? Then why is Counter Strike like the most popular online game in history if its so crap? Go in a CS forum, and ask them if they'd rather have the M16 or the Q2 machine gun in their game. Why do so many modern films/TV shows have M16s in if they're not cool? There are plenty of other guns they could use..

1) CS doesn't have an M-16, that's the M4A1.

2) If it did have an M-16, it wouldn't make it an iota more popular, people play it for competitive edge

3) TV/Films have M-16s because they're easily recongnized, like an AK-47.

Shaviro said:

Yeah, bloody bones. I don't see the revenant as comical at all.

No I dont eather, I think the concept of them fits in with doom very well and they gave me the creeps the first time I played final doom.

Regarding not wanting realistic weapons in Doom.. where do you think ID found their inspiration for the shotgun, the beretta, the chaingun, the chainsaw from? A fairytale? Realistic, recognisable shit is good, because it draws you in, until when you see the fucked up, hell stuff you're like, more inclined to be interested or whatever, since the game has already convinced you, subconsciously, that this is err, more believable than it would be if you were shooting out giant fucking flaming mushrooms or something.

And about the M16 in counterstrike- the M4 is a variant of the M16 A2, just like the M16 A2 is a variant of the M16. My point was that the M4 in CS is basically the type of weapon I'd like to see in Doom III, in that it is a variant of the M16 A2.

As for people using M16s in films because they're easily recognisable, well this doesn't address the issue as to whether they suck or not. The fact is, they're not used because they're cool, they're used because a) they fit the part and b) they don't suck. If they did suck, then they could easily just use another gun like the AUG or whatever- these film-makers have a SHITLOAD of money at their disposal. Hey, there was an M16 A2 on the cover of the Matrix so there you go..

Oh and about the revanant's red cycling shorts actually being blood. Well, okay, I got that one wrong. They sure have a strange fashion sense, whatever it is. Nah, seriously, the revanants rock. They remind me of Jason and the Argonauts.. the skeletons in that were fucking cool.

I still prefer to think that they're pants, but let's not start that argument again.

I definetely like the idea of things not happening quite the same way each time, like doomedout said. In AvP, enemies constantly moved around. So each time you played, you couldnt be too sure of their exact locations. This really made you fearful no matter how many times you played the game.

M16, M4, chaingun, machinegun. They're all just guns in my eyes. The only things that really make a difference are it's firing rate, amount of damage, ammo type (energy, hitscan etc.), and capacity. So im not really too worried about what the weapons will be like. I do want at least one futuristic weapon that we havent already seen. But it's not really that big a deal to me.

I personally would love to see a m16 in Doom3. Then again I'm a huge cs fan.

No Goddamn M-16, jerkstores. It'd be old, worthless and outdated in the future, look at the guns in Doom 3 FFS, they're not old and outdated, they look "modern" (to the timeframe of Doom 3), unlike Doom, I don't see any 20th century throwbacks in Doom 3.

revenant_fister said:

Regarding not wanting realistic weapons in Doom.. where do you think ID found their inspiration for the shotgun, the beretta, the chaingun, the chainsaw from? A fairytale? Realistic, recognisable shit is good, because it draws you in, until when you see the fucked up, hell stuff you're like, more inclined to be interested or whatever, since the game has already convinced you, subconsciously, that this is err, more believable than it would be if you were shooting out giant fucking flaming mushrooms or something.

You're an idiot.

Of course the weapons should be based off real life weapons, jerk, it's just that they shouldn't be "100%-true-to-real-gun" copied. They use real life guns as a base, then use their imagination to make them look interesting. Doom 3 takes place in the future, so making the weapons some sort of 20th century throwbacks would be totally lame - hence, they have to look futuristic.
Do you get the drift now?

Probably not, because if you knew how to explore the logical centre of your brain, you'd have understood my point long ago. Sadly, my points require that the recipient knows a bit about "logic thinking".

Ooh, touchy!

The original Doom took place in the future too, (unless my lack of an ability to think logically has fucked my brain up to the extent that I can't tell anymore) and the weapons in that were like, bloody similar to today's weapons, so why can't Doom 3 do the same?

Besides, since it's in the future, there's no reason why some old weapons, particularly widespread ones like the M16, might not still be around, somewhere. The AK47 is over 50 years old, and yet, it's still here..

Hey, it's just my opinion. Some people prefer 'imaginative' weapons, others prefer ones that are more like real ones. No need to have a cow over a difference of opinion.

revenant_fister said:

The original Doom took place in the future too, (unless my lack of an ability to think logically has fucked my brain up to the extent that I can't tell anymore) and the weapons in that were like, bloody similar to today's weapons, so why can't Doom 3 do the same?

Because realistic weapon designs are just boring and lame. Doom is not Halflife.

Overall the original Doom wasn´t as *designed* as modern games are. It had some comical elements and different references to movies and other stuff, the chainsaw is a reference to Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the shotgun maybe a reference to Evil Dead or other Horror movies. It wasn´t meant to be realistic in the first place.

Tetzlaff said:

Because realistic weapon designs are just boring and lame. Doom is not Halflife.

Overall the original Doom wasn´t as *designed* as modern games are. It had some comical elements and different references to movies and other stuff, the chainsaw is a reference to Texas Chainsaw Massacre and the shotgun maybe a reference to Evil Dead or other Horror movies. It wasn´t meant to be realistic in the first place.

The chainsaw is pretty much also a reference to the Evil Dead series - think it was ED3: Army of Darkness.

And yes, back in the day, Doom was developed by a a couple of guys that were a lot less professional than they are now - that means that they had to scan in toy guns and their own hands for the art. I don't even know what they used for the rocket launcher and the two plasma weapons.
Nowadays it's different. Cool weapons have to be designed from the ground up to maintain the popularity of iD's fanbase. It'd be seriously lame if they only threw modern day weapons into Doom 3.

I mean look at the fucking environments in the Doom 3 screenshots and tell me if modern day weapons wouldn't look out of place in those areas! If you tell me that it wouldn't look out of place, I would either say that you need a decent shrink or I'd say that you own no imagination whatsoever.

Pfft, all those real-life gun nuts piss me off. Wait for CS2 or something like that - or Half Life 2.

revenant_fister said:

The original Doom took place in the future too, (unless my lack of an ability to think logically has fucked my brain up to the extent that I can't tell anymore) and the weapons in that were like, bloody similar to today's weapons, so why can't Doom 3 do the same?

I think some of them are realistic, take the SMG for example. If you have played the Alpha or seen the videos, intuition will tell you that there is noticeable recoil on that gun.

revenant_fister said:

Besides, since it's in the future, there's no reason why some old weapons, particularly widespread ones like the M16, might not still be around, somewhere. The AK47 is over 50 years old, and yet, it's still here..

Agreed. Again, I would love to use high penetrating rifles like those. AK would be sweet.

revenant_fister said:

Hey, it's just my opinion. Some people prefer 'imaginative' weapons, others prefer ones that are more like real ones. No need to have a cow over a difference of opinion.

However, I mostly agree with you, if that means anything...

What is all this shit about references to the Evil Dead Films? Evil Dead 3 wasn't even fucking RELEASED when ID thought up Doom! The bottom line is, they needed some fun weapons for the player to use, and it just happens that they got inspiration from excellent films, like Evil Dead 2. And if they couldn't draw up shit, how the fuck did they draw the weapons for Wolfenstein? You think they went down to the local WW2 museum and borrowed some old German weapons?

And are the weapon sprites in Doom actually scans anyway???

Look, if everyone hated realistic guns, Half-Life wouldn't have been as popular as Quake 2. It was far more popular. End of story.

And id's fanbase is pretty much gone these days. If they think Doom 3 will sell on name alone, they're pretty much giving the race away to Valve. Yes, it will sell, but not like Half-Life did, or like Half-Life 2 will.

BlueSonnet said:

1. Hoping that this game will be great enough to play again and again and beat a dozen times, as well as spawn off loads of mods to play again and again...

Yay thats what everybody probobly wants!

Speaking of realistic weaponry: the m16 sucks! The modern assault rifles and machine guns are more specificated and have better design, take a look at Steyer AUG, or at P90 in the CS! OICW is also more modern and futuristic looking then M16, but with that is the same weapon!!! I dont see a reason of appearing AK 47 or AK 74 at Mars?! Gimme AK 2050 instead!!!

Speaking of CS and Doom weapons: i like Benelli auto shotgun in CS. I think that the new Doom shotgun shold have the alt fire when all 8 shots are fired in seconds, kinda burst. It should have huge lack of accuracy but it can be usefull at short distances and in tight corridors. What do you think of that?

BTW AK beats M16... :)

In these huge HL VS The World debates, remember that consensus doesn't function as a rating of quality. Quite often the most popular/mainstream things are so because of publicity/exposure etc,

wasted said:

Speaking of CS and Doom weapons: i like Benelli auto shotgun in CS. I think that the new Doom shotgun shold have the alt fire when all 8 shots are fired in seconds, kinda burst. It should have huge lack of accuracy but it can be usefull at short distances and in tight corridors. What do you think of that?

Doom 3 won't have alt fire.

Btw, iD didn't even bother to look at WW2 weapons when they did Wolf3d - they just did them using their imagination. There was, for instance, never a chaingun during WW2, the pistol doesn't have the characteristics of neither a Lüger, nor a Walther (though it makes you think of either of these two pistols), the machinegun reminds you a bit of the MP40, but the magazine is totally wrong among other things.
Bottom line: The Wolf3d weapons were never meant to be realistic weapons in the first place - they were just supposed to be cool and look WW2'ish. Same with the Doom weapons.

And btw, iD's fanbase doesn't seem to be dying - their games still seem to sell quite well.
And HL wasn't popular entirely because of its realistic guns jerkstore. It was popular because of the story-telling aspects, plus, there were just as many fantasy weapons in that game as there were real-life guns (and those fantasy weapons were fucking lame too imo - just goes to show that Valve has less of an imagination in terms of cool weapon design).

You may wonder why I'm being mean to you, right? It has nothing to do with your opinions I can assure you. But it's the assumptions and quick conclusions you draw all the time and your persistence in these that piss me off. I respect that you like real life guns, but your constant persistence in wanting such weapons in Doom 3 makes me really angry.
Gamers expect much more professionalism in their games today - in terms of realism as well as design. The old Doom succeeded, because gamers were less demanding in those days, but the standards have changed.
Gamers nowadays, want things to make sense and seem to fit in the gaming world. Since Doom's original level design was more surreal, the inclusion of seemingly "real-life" guns was easier to digest and accept. But now, they're concentrating in making believable sci-fi environments and create a believable world.
Having an old, twentieth century m16 or even worse, an AK47 would be totally out of place and would not fit with Doom 3's overall style.
It'd fit with the semi-modern-day Half Life universe, because the environments look more like a very near future which looks a lot like things do today - m16s don't look out of place there.

i totally agree with everything dsm has said in his last few posts. although i love realistic guns in games, i say keep them in the games they look good in and not in a game where they would look totally out of place.

dsm said:

Doom 3 won't have alt fire.

Ok. Switching fire then :) ?

dsm said:

Btw, iD didn't even bother to look at WW2 weapons when they did Wolf3d - they just did them using their imagination. There was, for instance, never a chaingun during WW2, the pistol doesn't have the characteristics of neither a Lüger, nor a Walther (though it makes you think of either of these two pistols), the machinegun reminds you a bit of the MP40, but the magazine is totally wrong among other things.
Bottom line: The Wolf3d weapons were never meant to be realistic weapons in the first place - they were just supposed to be cool and look WW2'ish. Same with the Doom weapons.

And btw, iD's fanbase doesn't seem to be dying - their games still seem to sell quite well.
And HL wasn't popular entirely because of its realistic guns jerkstore. It was popular because of the story-telling aspects, plus, there were just as many fantasy weapons in that game as there were real-life guns (and those fantasy weapons were fucking lame too imo - just goes to show that Valve has less of an imagination in terms of cool weapon design).

You may wonder why I'm being mean to you, right? It has nothing to do with your opinions I can assure you. But it's the assumptions and quick conclusions you draw all the time and your persistence in these that piss me off. I respect that you like real life guns, but your constant persistence in wanting such weapons in Doom 3 makes me really angry.
Gamers expect much more professionalism in their games today - in terms of realism as well as design. The old Doom succeeded, because gamers were less demanding in those days, but the standards have changed.
Gamers nowadays, want things to make sense and seem to fit in the gaming world. Since Doom's original level design was more surreal, the inclusion of seemingly "real-life" guns was easier to digest and accept. But now, they're concentrating in making believable sci-fi environments and create a believable world.
Having an old, twentieth century m16 or even worse, an AK47 would be totally out of place and would not fit with Doom 3's overall style.
It'd fit with the semi-modern-day Half Life universe, because the environments look more like a very near future which looks a lot like things do today - m16s don't look out of place there.

Is it all 4 me or 4 revenant_fister??? I spoke a lot bout the alt and switch fire modes, but i dont remember me talking bout real guns 4 Doom...

Yes the AK47 is still used today, but does it look like the ones that where made in the late 40's, no it looks totally different!, and besides it may be 50 years old now, but in doom 3 it will be like 150 years old, do armies still use flintlock muskets today?

Nope, you wouldn't find muskets being used in today's stuff, but then, no one complained when in Aliens, Hudson used a 20th century shotgun. I havn't read a single review or heard anyone complain about that shotgun looking out of place.

Besides, it's doubtful 'plasma rifles' or the 'BFG' would exist in the future, if you really think about it. By another 150 years, things will have moved on to androids and nanotechnology weapons that will make Doom's futuristic weapons look like pea shooters in comparison. It probably won't be long before they stop bothering to design new weapons that can be fired by humans, since it'll be androids doing the fighting. They're already making 'em in Japan.

Besides, since some of the stuff in the game comes from hell anyway, and hell is eternal, the old weaponry could still be stuck onto dead soldiers bodies from like, the different eras of history. So you could have muskets, maces, lol, whatever you wanted.

The bottom line is, games don't need to be realistic, they need to be believable. There's a major difference. Being believable is only really about making sure nothing seems silly or out of place or context. For example, if you had a gun that fired cyberdemons, that would look stupid.

An M16 would fit Doom, because there are plenty of old style, 20th century weapons in there anyway. The weapons in Doom may not be based on specific, real life weapons, but they sure do look a hell of a lot like them. In the same way, I'd prefer an assault rifle to look a lot like an M16 A2, simply because I like the look of it. It's a fun weapon to use.

Sure, futurified versions of shotguns and machine guns would be believable too. That's fair enough. But personally, I just doubt they'll be as fun to use as something that's similar to an M16.

revenant_fister said:

Besides, it's doubtful 'plasma rifles' or the 'BFG' would exist in the future, if you really think about it. By another 150 years, things will have moved on to androids and nanotechnology weapons that will make Doom's futuristic weapons look like pea shooters in comparison. It probably won't be long before they stop bothering to design new weapons that can be fired by humans, since it'll be androids doing the fighting. They're already making 'em in Japan.

yeah and if you look at pop-culture futuristic references from the 50's and shit when they talk about the year 2000, we should be in flying cars, have our own personal robot maids, and have our houses be toted around in suitcases wherever we go (and im not just talking about the jetsons here).

i doubt by the year 2150 we'll be that far along in technology. im sorry but i feel that is still far too off. just thinking of that kind of technology and the scientific advancements that would be required to make that kind of junk gives me a headache.

revenant_fister said:

Besides, it's doubtful 'plasma rifles' or the 'BFG' would exist in the future, if you really think about it.

Damn, you cant use M16 on the other planets. Becouse of its recoil, gravity and etc.!!! Besides Plasma and BFG can be made for industrial purposes!!!

Androids - bah, you took that from 50-60s sci-fi? Why not to use simple robots then?!

wasted said:

Damn, you cant use M16 on the other planets. Becouse of its recoil, gravity and etc.!!! Besides Plasma and BFG can be made for industrial purposes!!!

The D3 shotgun looks like it gives a considerable backlash and it seems to me like those bases have some sort of artificial gravity inside them that correspond to Earth gravity, otherwise the doomguy would be bouncin' all over the place.
So I don't think you can use that argument.

I've been thinking long and hard and come to the conclusion that yeap, we could have a futuristic m16 in the Doom 3 era - as long as it looked futuristic compared to modern m16s. Trouble is that the m16 is pretty damn overused in action movies and computer games, hence, it'd be less interesting to have it in instead of that D3 machinegun (which looks new and fresh).

Hey, I never said the M16 would be any more realistic than the BFG or Plasma Rifle! Or that we should get rid of either of them. But think about it guys, androids are already being developed in Japan, bipedal ones that can walk around, pick things up and shit, they look like that fucking biddy biddy biddy thing from Buck Rogers lol.

Plus, technology is getting smaller and smaller every day. It won't be long before they make macines small enough to dissassemble material at a molecular level. I'm not sure how their power source would work- maybe they would absorb energy from the stuff they take apart, but it's widely accepted that this kind of shit isn't too far off. I think the use of them is that basically, they could be made to discriminate between people and like, buildings, and other types of material, so they would just swarm through the base, consuming all flesh into slush, leaving the clothes, guns and everything just scattered all over the floor. It's kind of hard to fight them, since they would be so small you couldn't see them with the naked eye..

Oh, and wasted, we've been using coal/wood for industrial purposes for centuries- most of the rifles I've seen don't use it as a power source though. My point is, just because you can use something in industrial shit doesn't mean that one day it will be worth using in a gun. It might be possible, but there will probably be other, non understood energy forms in 150 years. Back in medieval times, no one had a fucking dream what a rifle would be like..

And dsm, yeah, I do actually agree with you that the M16 has been overused recently. This is, admittedly, the one point against it. However, most of the overuse has been with the new style of barrel casing- the earlier M16 A2s, the ones with the holes in the barrel, no one uses them anymore (except in the excellent Firearms mod). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible to design a futuristic rifle that would be cooler than the M16, it'd just be hard, and ID don't have that great a track record at designing new guns, IMO.

I guess it all depends whether or not you want futurified weapons or not. Personally, I'd like some kind of a thing where you take the M16 A2 off a zombified soldier who's come back from hell. Maybe with similar shit to that, you could have weapons from a few different eras- oh and it could explain why you can get the chainsaw, and not the plasma chainsaw- that guy from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre is back from hell!!!

Due to all what have been said here what i want now:

1. a chainsaw...
2. the m16-like pistol that shoots by nanobots which tears apart enemy from the inside...

Well i never said that the addaut rifle doesnt have to look like an M16, maybe they could so some stuff like give it a little digital screen showing ammo count, and a built-on grenade launcher (not just an attached extra) ect ect, maybe i'll draw a pic a bit later if i can be bothered XD

I want something like a compact assault rifle, say something the size of a mack10 but takes .223 ammunition or 5.56.

deathbringer said:

Well i never said that the addaut rifle doesnt have to look like an M16, maybe they could so some stuff like give it a little digital screen showing ammo count, and a built-on grenade launcher (not just an attached extra) ect ect, maybe i'll draw a pic a bit later if i can be bothered XD

Take a long look at OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) - thats the modern model of M16 with in_built 20mm granade launcha.

Is it future_like enough?

BTW: Alpha's Machine Gun reloads in the same way as P 90 submachine gun. I think that the Doom 3 rifle (if there will be any) will use bull_up structure...