Open areas

Fuck, I read it wrong...

LOL. Sorry.

If we are talking about the motion of the dude who is firing it, then yes, there ARE no vertical components, hence we can safely negate those affects altogether.

(makes me look like a complete jack ass)

Ichor said:

That's the first time I've heard about transparent aluminum other than in Star Trek 4.

In Star Wars there's "transpara-steel"

Tetzlaff said:

Panoramic windows and small domes are no compensation for outdoor parts. I think the levels should include some real outdoor parts, because otherwise the design would be too limited (kinda like Wolfenstein 3D, wouldn´t it?). Outdoor areas add to the exploration factor of the game.
The scene with the monorail train in the E3 movie, or the one shot from the PC Gamer magazine where you see a Hell Knight standing in front of some sort of mining facility build into the sandy landscape (and it seems that there is no panoramic window between the HK and that outdoor part) - wouldn´t it be a shame if you wouldn´t be able to explore those enviromnents? Step outside and look arround, without using an airlock and space suite every time, and without realising it´s somehow sealed off with a glas dome.

It's a good idea with an outdoor area that turns out to be sealed off by a dome, although I wonder what that dome is supposed to be good for - to allow miners the chance to enter the underground of Mars without exposure to the atmosphere perhaps?

Anyway, I think it's stupid (no offense) to compare Wolf3d to Doom 3. Doom 3 may be primarily indoors like Wolf3d (well, not necessarily quite like Wolf3d), but it'll have everything from platforms, ducts, lifts, shafts - you name it. Indoor means too limited design??? Do you have any idea how many design possibilities there are in indoor scenarios alone? Definitely much more than the usual outdoor areas. It's not like everything is cramped corridors and grey-blue steel walls y'know.
Exploration? I don't see how much more exploration there is in a huge ass landscape where you have to walk/run several miles to reach all corners - talk about nuisance factor. Let's get something straight here: indoor areas, if designed right, have plenty of exploration. Secret areas, other corners of the base you didn't find at first, because they weren't relevant for your mission or because you simply didn't notice the opening in a certain wall. That's exploration for ya.

I'm not totally hostile towards outdoor areas if they're somehow confined so that you don't have to run great distances to get to the action, what I'm against with all my heart is those huge, almost flat areas a la Serious Sam or Unreal 1+2, because they're just not fun. If iD could make some outdoor scenarios where the landscape is very rugged with huge, narrow cliffs surrounding you (but with the possibility to approach those clifss from above and look down at your previous path) and with potential demons lurking inside every crevice and hiding in any little crater, so that you have plenty of heated combat all the time (like in the indoor scenarios) then I'm all for it.
Examples of RtCW maps I have a grudge with or that I feel got ruined by large outdoor areas to give you an idea on how I do NOT want to see 'em:

Forest: Not only does this map have few enemies, but you'll have to move great distances to get to them.

Air base assault: ridiculously huge flat scenarios and you have to run back and forth across a huge flat field to get the enemies coming for you.

Ice station Norway: This is potentially a good map, but it has those annoying, large areas with no real cover and this reduces the really cool in-your-face combat that I feel is an essential part of a good FPS map. The best parts of this map is really the indoor areas.

Unhallowed ground: Ugh, again we have few enemies with lots of wasted space between them which could've been used to pack some more walls and enemies into. I will admit though that the terrain in this map is slightly approaching the style of rugged outdoor terrain that I want.

wasted said:

Bahh, i thought that even hellish critters cant live without air - they still have laungs. Hmm, thats strange...

That´s why I´m suggesting Mars should be "terraformed", meaning equipped with an earth-like athmosphere. It´s just Science Fiction :)

dsm said:
Indoor means too limited design??? Do you have any idea how many design possibilities there are in indoor scenarios alone? Definitely much more than the usual outdoor areas. It's not like everything is cramped corridors and grey-blue steel walls y'know.
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Yeah I´m exaggerating it a bit to make my point clearer... of course limits like that don´t hinder an artists (level designer in this case) creativity. Also I´m not talking about outdoor only areas, but more a Quake2 / Halflife style smooth transition between (smaller) outdoor and extensive indoor environments.

RtCW´s Forrest map is a quality piece of map design IMO, I enjoyed playing that stealth mission. I also quite liked Air Base Assault, though I agree to you that it could get a bit annoying to run those huge distances. The setting was really cool though.

Serious Sam has a very different use of outdoor areas, epic battles against monster hordes, I enjoyed that very much. But off course Doom³ gameplay will be too different to have anything similar to SSam outdoor fighting. Just as an example that outdoor can be fun, and outdoor doesn´t neccessarely mean a special gameplay style.

Outdoor areas I would like to see in Doom³ are not plane neverending desert valleys, but I can imagine a twisted canyon with some mines and facility buildings build into the stone and something like that.

doomedout said:

Fuck, I read it wrong...

LOL. Sorry.

If we are talking about the motion of the dude who is firing it, then yes, there ARE no vertical components, hence we can safely negate those affects altogether.

(makes me look like a complete jack ass)

Don't worry, stuff like that happens. I must admit that I was really close to calling you something inappropriate though :)

As far as the outdoor landscape goes, I'm sure a Martian landscape could look quite impressive if implemented correctly. I would love to see some stuff along the lines of what you're saying though, dsm, the cities and such, that would be VERY impressive, and a good way to show off the engine's capabilities.

Fredrik said:

Don't worry, stuff like that happens. I must admit that I was really close to calling you something inappropriate though :)

Heh, kudos to your control.