BahdKo
Mini-Member
Posts: 62
Registered: 07-00 |
Brings a game to the wider masses, I'm all for that. What difference would you think it would have made if Doom 2 had TCP/IP play? Same thing, you're just elitist because "oh look we had Doom 2 before all these newbie lamers came along and had Quake and could play games easily."
Here's what "bringing a game to the wider masses" means:
I remember when Quake1 first came out, there was a group of guys on our BBS who were, well, lamers. They were the ones who always sucked, and never improved. They had the attitude that practicing movement or aim for a game was beneath them, playing someone who is better than them and learning from the experience was beneath them, and they had no respect either. If they were in a game with a good player, they would simply leave, and just play the people who, like them, sucked. A few were keyboarders, and a few were kids who were mousers but had horrible attitudes.
Quake1 came out and OH my god. I remember we were all in a few games together, and the scores were roughly even because all you had to do was run and get a rocket launcher and start firing it. It was like, whoever made it there first would be the one getting frags, and since movement was practically skilless in comparison to Doom, the real skill of the players didnt matter. They were screaming "I LOVE THIS!! I LOVE THIS!!" into the game, as they were finally getting frags on the players who were, actually, skilled.
This is a degredation of the game, without a doubt. when "bringing the game to the masses" means making the thing so much easier to play that the complete losers fall in love with it on first sight, IMO that does not mean it is, even in a twisted respect (except perhaps profits for the makers), an improvement.
Quake was fine, for its time. DM was a bit of a pisser tho. And again, it's the expectations of a select few of the doom community, and what you think or feel should be in a Doom 3 will likely not determine what id actually puts in it. Personally I would prefer a more convenient, less of a pain system than what old-Doom espouses.
Yeah we are few, but you know what. The list of people who share most of this opinion are for the most part the best Doom2 deathmatchers in the world. And yes, I know that ID is not too likely to care what this small group wants. Hence, like I said, Doom3 kinda scares me ..
That just makes the game less enjoyable for the majority of gamers, Doom or otherwise. Again, it's the difference between the elitist "old Doom" attitude and what people who're out to just have fun would like/want. I don't think id has any obligations to certain segments of our community just because we've been around for this long.
It's not an elitest attitude. That's different. Here is an example of an elitest attitude.
There was this really neat group of guys that I used to Doom with back in 1996 who lived in the Maryland/Virginia/DC area. They frequented the DC Dwango server primarily, and had netparties once every few months. They were friendly, nice people who enjoyed having new people come into their group, and would play and talk to just about anyone. Just overall, a great group of guys.
When Quake1 came out, they liked the clan aspect of it, and formed a Quake clan named Clan Gib. Some years passed, and evidently they became well known. I finally caught up with them about a year ago, and experienced what "elitest" really means. For them, an IRC channel that is not Invite-Only status is a "public presence." Seeing people they do not know is referred to as, more or less, a flood of lamers. Their expectation when seeing people they do not know is that they are automatically a lower status somehow, and it is ok to be disrespectful and, even, harrass them.
I have not met a high-skilled doomer who is elitest. Their choice of game and high requirements does not make them elitest, as elitest is an attitude where the person thinks they are *personally* better. It's a whole different concept.
what harm is there in keeping that stuff in, when it's all part of what we want anyway? "Again, that's what you want, not necessarily what anybody else wants. Even if this were a democracy, you would likely not get your way, because your position (making a game arbitrarily difficult - anyone ever hear about Daikatana?) is quite unpopular."
Not me alone. You should stop pretending that I'm the only one who is like this. I don't really feel like wasting the time of the great players, dragging them in here to agree with me.
Neat engines are cool and all but, theres so much more to a game then genius graphics. When i see the press releases where John Carmack is talking about the new engine, it makes me worry more, not less. The engine isnt the important part!
I tend to agree with Flathead here. The new engine has all sorts of potential to make the game what Doom really should've been (in my opinion).
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Engine alone cannot do it.. surely you must know that. Donno what to say there.
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08-08-01 09:13 
