DOOM 3 is "really close" says Carmack

AndrewB said:

I don't think that ID is capable of producing anything revolutionary. They're too deep into traditional design techniques.

You deserve DooMBoy's title "Stupidity cannot be concealed" Seriously how could wolfenstein 3d, DOOM, Hexen, Quake 1, 2, 3 arena etc, RTCW, and Doom3 not be revolutionary? Shut up

I think he means that most id games are alike. I think he's right. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, since I like fps games. But it would be nice if id would try to do something that others haven't done before.

Dron said:

You deserve DooMBoy's title "Stupidity cannot be concealed" Seriously how could wolfenstein 3d, DOOM, Hexen, Quake 1, 2, 3 arena etc, RTCW, and Doom3 not be revolutionary? Shut up

Irony much?

TH-555 said:

if you still dont have it, here it is, partley at least.

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/130000/138664.shtml

Ummm, I was aware of the Softimage XSI exporter for HL2, but they also indicated that it wasn't an SDK. Please, for pity's sake make sure you know the subject matter of what you're talking about when it pertains to other forumgoers; it really wasn't fair or necessary to jump all over AndrewB because he voiced his opinion about Id, and I frankly agree with him when it pertains to certain aspects. Now, I'm not trying to grill ya, I just am trying to help you, since I've been here for quite some time (And when I made a blunder the same way you did, I lost my precious Asswarts username).

Dron said:

You deserve DooMBoy's title "Stupidity cannot be concealed" Seriously how could wolfenstein 3d, DOOM, Hexen, Quake 1, 2, 3 arena etc, RTCW, and Doom3 not be revolutionary? Shut up

Certainly, Quake III was revolutionary. A mutliplayer only game, whoa. And Hexen and Heretic, who would have ever thought of using the Doom and Quake engines, replacing the sci-fi themes with medieval ones, and then making games out of them? Mad crazy.

Dron said:

You deserve DooMBoy's title "Stupidity cannot be concealed" Seriously how could wolfenstein 3d, DOOM, Hexen, Quake 1, 2, 3 arena etc, RTCW, and Doom3 not be revolutionary? Shut up

Only wolf3d, doom and quake were revolutionary, if you can call it that. The rest are just good games of the same concepts. I mean Doom 3 isn't exactly gonna be revolutionary, even though its quite close with that graphics engine (Love those shadows).
Now if ID were the first to make a VR fps that worked really well, now THAT would be counted as revolutionary imo, but whom i kidding. ;D

Hexen and Heretic

...which werent made by ID...

deathbringer said:

...which werent made by ID...

Produced.

While I'd love to argue over which id games(and others that used their engines) are revolutionary, you'd have to agree that even a company with such a reputation earns the right to ride on a game's success for a while. Do you think they have the time to draw up a "new revolutionary" engine from scratch every time they have a design concept? Give 'em some slack.

The main point that I was making is that ID Software of today is totally different from the ID Software of the Doom days. They were completely different talent bodies at work.

Hexan and Quake one were more 'evolutionary' then 'revolutionary' but thats just my opinion.

Black Hand said:

Hexan and Quake one were more 'evolutionary' then 'revolutionary' but thats just my opinion.

In terms of what, gameplay or technology?

Quake WAS revolutionary. It had the first fully three-dimensional game engine, the objects were programmable, it was the first game to have 3D models instead of sprites, etc. Plus it was at least a bit scary the first time you played it

Quake 2 rocked then, and rocks now. Though choosing Q2 specifically for a quick remake using the Doom 3 engine would seem like a silly idea, since Raven are already making a sequel to Q2 based on the Doom III engine.

I'm all for id making smaller, tighter games with less content that can be developed in under a year - but I'd like to see them finally come up with some original concept. Remember they've been doing Doom and Quake titles for over a decade now.

Doom 3 being released in the next two months would be ultra-sweet.

Lord FlatHead said:

Doom 3 being released in the next two months would be ultra-sweet.

Who you kidding m8 LOL.

Quake 2 rocked then, and rocks now. Though choosing Q2 specifically for a quick remake using the Doom 3 engine would seem like a silly id, since Raven are already making a sequel to Q2 based on the Doom III

But yes i agree Quake 2 is the ultimate in classic games. If they do more than up the graphics and sound, and add greater features and possibly a doom3 like story, i'm sure it will be a good remake. A bit like that Resident Evil remake they made for the gamecube.

Dron said:

It had the first fully three-dimensional game engine

No it didn't.

it was the first game to have 3D models instead of sprites, etc.

No it wasn't.

Fredrik said:

No it wasn't.

It was virtua fighter wasnt it lol.

Dron said:

Quake WAS revolutionary. It had the first fully three-dimensional game engine, the objects were programmable, it was the first game to have 3D models instead of sprites, etc. Plus it was at least a bit scary the first time you played it

Dude, the first PC game to have these features came along AT LEAST six years prior.

Actually, it was the first to have levels made like models, in true3D

insertwackynamehere said:

Actually, it was the first to have levels made like models, in true3D

No, not that either.

http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/q/quake.html

Nuff said.

Zoorado said:

http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/q/quake.html

Link to the original on Wikipedia instead :P ...or don't, the wording in the latest version on Wikipedia is inaccurate.

Mmmm

id may not have revolutionary game design, but I have to point out two things.

Number one, Carmack's engines are ALWAYS "revolutionary" in at least some ways. With Keen, he was the first to produce smooth side-scrolling on the PC. With Hovetank and Catacombs 3d, he put similar scrolling technology to use in first person. Wolfenstein improved on the concept, but in my opinion was revoutionary for other, obvious reasons.

With the DOOM engine game the concept of diminished lighting, and also interactive environments, and floors of different heights, etc. Quake was the first fps to operate in arbitrary 3d. Quake II introduced colored lighting to PC games, as well as set the standard as far as the use of openGL was concerned (as I recall). Quake III's engine I'm sure was revolutionary in some way. If nothing can be said about the engine being revolutionary (which it likely is in some ways, as I'd guess it's the most licensed engine ever), you can at least say that it was LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything that came out around the same time (as is the case with all id games vs. competition), and also, it is probably the most well-balanced competitive fps ever (to date). What a sentence.

DOOM 3 is already revolutionary because of its awesome unified lighting system. Other games (... halo 2) have already started to rip this off, but I guess that's what id gets for taking so long.

But anyway - the point is - I believe they've always kept up the standard of being innovative or revolutionary or whatever. Even today.

The cool thing about Doom3's engine is how incredibly painless (based on my observation) the editing will be. In the last 10 years of my life, I've moved back and forth editing for games and never being able to make something I was truly proud of, because my goals were too far out of reach for the game engines at the time. Now, I think these things are completely possible. A person can really just about build ANYTHING with the Doom 3 engine, and the nicer thing about this engine is the lack of a need for precompiling a level for playing (usually a lot of it depends on lightmaps). What I like about Doom3 is that it is all dynamic as far as lighting goes. The only thing really needed to compile is geometry.

Zoorado said:

http://www.encyclopedia4u.com/q/quake.html

Nuff said.

Shub-Niggurath was a Lovecraft inspired boss? SWEET!

Scabbed Angel said:

Shub-Niggurath was a Lovecraft inspired boss? SWEET!

Timeline.

I no longer care whether Id's games are revolutionary - what matters is that I like them.

dsm said:

Timeline.

I no longer care whether Id's games are revolutionary - what matters is that I like them.

Yes that's exactly the whole point of playing not just ID's games. But any game.

dsm said:

Timeline.

What? I didn't know that : (

Scabbed Angel said:

Shub-Niggurath was a Lovecraft inspired boss? SWEET!

Question - if you, yourself, can't tell, then why does it matter? :)

I'm not sure about this, but on the forums I moderate at, bumping half-month old topics is considered a no-no.

Is this true here?