Mancubus
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Newfangled Doom > Doom 3 General > AI
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 22:19. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
grutsch
Mini-Member


Posts: 85
Registered: 11-00


When I compare the old Doom's AI to the AI of newer games I am kinda dissapointed.... of course doom1 has almost no AI but it doesnt really need to...
first because: especially big guys like the cyberdemon are cool to be known at a certain spot, so you can prepare to fight him....
secondly because: it is fun to run into a group of imps for example and run away from fireballs or just berserc your way through zombies.
thirdly because: i somehow forgive them to be kinda dumb i have learned to like them that way...
anyhow what i am missing from bots is real intelligence... i hate it when they try to act intelligent but look so dumb doing so.
it really sucks when you look at the screen and can almost predict what they will do --> if (rangetoplayer<5) then shoot
else movetoplayer;
i would like to see bots which do some reasonable mistakes and stuff like
-misjudging you from the enemy shooting once or twice and then noticing that it was actually a friend
-(in counterstrike) not looking like totally shaking around just to demonstrate where they are looking...this could be solved with only moving the head
-some random movements which are not predictable, like moving the feet, loosening up the shoulders, spit on the floor, act like they have to go piss. these could be done by just looking at the model skelletons and giving them certain room to flex in logical ways.
. and in other places i would like the to be less stupid if (thereisdoor) then (letswaitinfrontofitandalltrietopenitbutwecant)

Old Post 06-22-01 10:41 #
grutsch is offline Profile || Blog || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
maga
look deep into my eye


Posts: 518
Registered: 04-01




-some random movements which are not predictable, like moving the feet, loosening up the shoulders, spit on the floor, act like they have to go piss. these could be done by just looking at the model skelletons and giving them certain room to flex in logical ways.
. and in other places i would like the to be less stupid if (thereisdoor) then (letswaitinfrontofitandalltrietopenitbutwecant)



MWAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAAAAAAAAA ! this is the first thing that poped in my mind reading the "piss" thing....

now, to the serious stuff....you want "the works", AI that's very human-like....and that is very far away..maybe that will be done in 4-5 years (imagine a pissing Imp.../me fall from chair and die laughing)

Old Post 06-22-01 10:54 #
maga is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Tetzlaff
Senior Member


Posts: 1068
Registered: 06-00


I hope Doom3 will have various kinds of hellish demons, some dumb zombified soldiers and only a few real human enemies.
So, things like typical human behaviour wouldn´t be that important, details like spitting on the floor etc, would a demon hang arround, spitting on the floor and such? Some demons should have a animalish behaviour, aggressive and driven by instincts, but also with the option to be confused for example.

Old Post 06-22-01 11:26 #
Tetzlaff is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Arioch
not arioch


Posts: 2772
Registered: 05-00


Haha you're using GavinJCD's avatar icon.

Yeah, I like the idea of varied intelligence. The nearest example I can think of is from Half-Life (especially Opposing Force), where the marines have fairly decent combat AI (by fairly decent I mean it doesn't suck as horribly as most monster AI).

The demons may be hellspawn, but surely some of them are intelligent enough not to just always run up to you and start taking chunks out of your flesh? That spiderdemon for example, has a pretty damned large brain ... surely it's not all useless? :)

Old Post 06-22-01 11:55 #
Arioch is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Doom-Child
Wears the man-pants in this family


Posts: 1365
Registered: 06-01


TECHNICALLY, AI is impossible on digital machines. There's really no way to simulate the workings of a human brain (with billions of variable-strength synapes) with our kinds of processors (hard-coded and binary).

What every game ever written has used is ECAs (Evolutionary Computational Algorithms). Basically, it's a kind of genetic programming that allows some adaptability, as well as the ability to learn in a limited context (i.e. this hurts, that doesn't).

Half-Life probably does the best version of this that I've seen, with the marines realizing that they can't win in certain situations, so they run for cover (although not before putting a grenade down...hehehe).

DC

Old Post 06-22-01 14:56 #
Doom-Child is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Liam
the Bard formerly known as the Bard


Posts: 4018
Registered: 08-00


Here's my idea of what Doom3 varied enemy intellegence should be like......(Assuming all the listed monsters make it into doom3)

First you should have the easier more common monsters (riflers, shotgunners, demons, imps, spectres, chaingunners, lost souls) should be very dumb and should act as constant attackers (basically keep them the way they always have been). There should be TONS of these guys so it still seems like a DooM game.

Then, would be the next level of intelligence (Mancubi, Revenants, Cyberdemons). I didn't exactly see the cyberdemon being a genius. I think these guys should make showings in early levels and be very common in later ones. They would still pretty much do nothing but attack, but they will know when to run, hide, or try a last resort manuever.

The next level would be made up of cacodemons, pain elementals, barons, and knights. These would be "intelligent" demons that could do cool things like try to use weaker monsters as human(demon?) shields as they attacked or interacting with the environment, like throwing a torch at you or hiding a valuable item(like a key) from you.

Finally come arachnotrons and spiderminds, since all they are is a brain, i figure they must be pretty smart. These guys should also interact with the level like the previous stage of intelligence, but should also be able to trick you, or make traps, or something to that effect.

Tell me what you think of my ideas.

Old Post 06-22-01 19:31 #
Liam is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Doom-Child
Wears the man-pants in this family


Posts: 1365
Registered: 06-01


I definitely think some kind of hellspawn hierarchy would ROCK. That, and the term "hellspawn hierarchy" is fun to say.

My personal favorite enemy is the Baron of Hell, so I definitely think he should get some intelligence. The Cacodemons I DEFINITELY see as painfully intelligent, to the point of hiding and letting you attack other enemies, while it sneaks up to bite you in the ass.

DC

Old Post 06-22-01 19:35 #
Doom-Child is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Linguica


Posts: 4091
Registered: 05-00



What every game ever written has used is ECAs (Evolutionary Computational Algorithms). Basically, it's a kind of genetic programming that allows some adaptability, as well as the ability to learn in a limited context (i.e. this hurts, that doesn't).

LOL. Every game ever written? How about, almost no games ever written?

Old Post 06-22-01 19:50 #
Linguica is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
Doom-Child
Wears the man-pants in this family


Posts: 1365
Registered: 06-01


Well, I don't actually count DOOM's intelligence scheme as an ECA, more like a really simple heuristic.

But HL, Q2, and Q3, all have them (they're really the only games I play much anymore). Oh yeah, and StarCraft, Alpha Centauri, and the Sims.

DC

Old Post 06-22-01 19:56 #
Doom-Child is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
sirjuddington
Slade doesn't mean what it used to


Posts: 1406
Registered: 05-00




Finally come arachnotrons and spiderminds, since all they are is a brain, i figure they must be pretty smart. These guys should also interact with the level like the previous stage of intelligence, but should also be able to trick you, or make traps, or something to that effect.


I think archviles should be in this group. Dont ask me why, but it would make them really cool (and they look smart too).

Imagine an archvile that would hide around corners and attack barrels that are right next to you!

Old Post 06-23-01 06:03 #
sirjuddington is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
DoOmEr4LiFe
DoOm TiL dEaTh


Posts: 912
Registered: 09-00


yes i agree...the archvile appears to be one of the (if not the most) intelligent creatures in the game...they are annoying and deadly enough...now throw in brains and you got yourself one hell of a wrecking machine

Old Post 06-23-01 07:16 #
DoOmEr4LiFe is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 22:19. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Newfangled Doom > Doom 3 General > AI

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.