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tsareppsun
Junior Member

Posts: 210
Registered: 07-00

Ghastly_dragon said:

I think he means the gun in the lower-right corner of the screen, which has been in almost all FPSs since at least Quake 2.

@Tsareppsun: I'm guessing you have these same problems with: Halo, Quake, Doom 2 (that's still not nearly as realistic as even Doom 3), Unreal, etc. Science-fiction first person shooters, such as Doom and Quake, never have to be completely realistic when it comes to the game's interface. "Oh my god! I will never play this game ever again, since it has the gun at the botton of the screen!"

Also, if they do as you say and copy Rainbow Six: Vegas, how popular do you think that'll be? I mean, I heard people complaining that Quake 4 was a complete, direct rip-off of Halo. Imagine the people complaining about that, lol.

Anywho, the game engine itself is already done, so those are moot suggestions.

To "Ghastly_dragon & esselfortium" I have no probs with the floating gun. What I meant is that id "should spice it up" more. Give US MORE animations than JUST the gun on the lower right angle. Most FPS today give at least 2 P.O.V, the obvious and the scope/iron sites closeup view. And I'm damn tired not being able to see my legs when I'm runnin' around shooting stuff.

And I'm glad you mentioned HALO esselfortium, you notice on BUNGIE's Halo engine that when you kill a enemy and you vacate the area, even for a long time and for whatever reason you return to that area you took down the enemy, the bodies are STILL there. Things like that are still important to me. And I can't understand why alot of these so called ADVANCED gaming engines can't handle things like that without choaking. This includes id's DOOM3 engine.

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02-07-09 04:52 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6119
Registered: 06-06

I think corpses disappear in many games to avoid the display of death, or maybe that the artists don't know how to render corpses so they resort to cheap 'gibbing' or quick decomposing, at most. Still, realistic display of death in a FPS, which normally suggests lots of killing, would trigger its BAN in lots of big countries.

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02-07-09 08:16 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 3953
Registered: 10-05

I have no problem with corpse evaporation. That's only one of the extreme departures from reality that the FPS medium makes, and probably should make. If this trope wasn't universally used, playing games would be very depressing.

02-07-09 18:12 #

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Ghastly_dragon
Mini-Member

Posts: 85
Registered: 05-07

printz said:
I think corpses disappear in many games to avoid the display of death, or maybe that the artists don't know how to render corpses so they resort to cheap 'gibbing' or quick decomposing, at most. Still, realistic display of death in a FPS, which normally suggests lots of killing, would trigger its BAN in lots of big countries.

Nope, it was performance issues. Doom 3's engine was fairly messy when it came to several actors on screen at once. It was fixed, partly, in Quake 4, but they still removed corpses to ease up on lag.

02-07-09 19:15 #

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kristus
Megablast!

Posts: 9568
Registered: 07-00

The problem with Doom3 is that all the models and scripts and decls etc are in ASKII as opposed to binary format. This was changed some in Quake4 with more stuff being moved to the SDK, and even more so in ETQW where the MD5 models were made into binary format.

Doom3's version of the engine is plenty powerful. Just that it's not making any compromises.
Everything is insantly moddable (being in ASKII), it's got per poly hit detecion, unified lighting.
Even the maps and ragdolls (that are more powerful than people might realize)are in ASKII format making them instandly moddable
The only limit really is the computer running game.

Plenty of games (even Strife) has had evaporating corpses to keep the game running smoothly. No one made a fuss before. What is it with Doom3 doing it?

02-07-09 19:27 #

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Deeforce
Member

Posts: 618
Registered: 04-06

For me it is just important that the blood stays. With this mod I get what I want for Doom 3, but for Quake 4 there is not such a mod, so it�s bullshit playing Quake 4, when you always look at the disappearing blood!

02-08-09 00:32 #

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Ghastly_dragon
Mini-Member

Posts: 85
Registered: 05-07

Deeforce said:
so it�s bullshit playing Quake 4, when you always look at the disappearing blood!

Yeah, people should never play games with minor cosmetic changes like that that were implemented to try to improve performance!

Seriously, though, some option to leave decals like that would've worked, but it's stupid not liking a game because of something like that.

02-09-09 00:47 #

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Airman266
Loser

Posts: 197
Registered: 08-04

Nancy said:
A wink to the old Doom fans is nice, but old Doom fans also want new stuff sometimes.

Did you PLAY Doom 3 by any chance? It had lots of new ideas. In fact the most common complaint I saw about it when it first came out was people whining because it wasn't like the originals. These people apparently just wanted the game to be exactly the same just with better graphics. LAME. Unfortunately from what I've been hearing they're probably gonna make Doom 4 include the hordes and hordes of monsters like the originals and spend less time on atmosphere, which if you ask me sucks. The feel of the game is alot more important than the body count to me.

If all you did was run through Doom 3 as fast as you could blasting demons as they popped out in front of you, then yeah the game was repetitive and boring and just the same. The first time I played it it took me about 10 days playing 2-3 hours a day to complete it. The reason being I took my time and went through the game almost like playing through a movie. If you take your time to LOOK at all the little details they put in to make the experience, the game is awesome.

I will agree though that they could've done a better job exploiting the engine. The single level where part of it you could take 2 different routes was kind of insulting and lazy on their part. The linear corridors you had to follow because the door to go the other way was broken was pretty frustrating. And the choice whether to send the message or not was laughable seeing as how it didn't affect the outcome AT ALL. I also didn't like when I rushed to get the reactor stabilized so the place didn't blow itself to pieces, only to find later that it didn't matter how fast I got there. Same thing with reaching Bravo company. I remember first starting the game and going through that decon chamber, I was looking all over the place and the guy told me to hold still and I thought that was so cool. But he tells you that even if you stand perfectly still. I don't think games really need gimmicks like that to be good, but if you're gonna include them don't make them so half assed.

02-19-09 18:35 #

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Coopersville
Get Psyched!

Posts: 2722
Registered: 10-01

It wasn't about wanting a Doom sequel with just better graphics. It was having a sequel that was still simular to Doom, without adding elements that strayed from the original concept, trying to make the game all tacticool.

That said, I felt Quake IV did that, and people still bitched.

02-20-09 18:05 #

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kristus
Megablast!

Posts: 9568
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I didn't think Quake4 did that at all.
I liked Quake4 but I never felt like I was playing a sequel to Quake2. Everything that made Quake2 what it was was gone.

You can say the same about Doom3 of course. But it wasn't really trying to be that either. And it wasn't expected that it'd try to be it either. It was a retelling I knew that all along.

Quake4 though was a direct sequel that didn't have the weight of the original.

02-20-09 18:23 #

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UtimateDoom_64Fan
Banned

Posts: 2
Registered: 01-09

hardcore_gamer said:
Doom 4 won't come out in the next 4 years or so, and if it does Id better start working in it soon as i don't think it will be very good if it takes less than 3 years to make.

I know and i really do hope they come out with a doom4 because i think doom would have to be my number one game besides quake

02-22-09 19:34 #

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UtimateDoom_64Fan
Banned

Posts: 2
Registered: 01-09

Hex_Moon said:

Your damn right he did. John Romero was the boss for DooM2/Final DooM
for both TNT:Eviloution and The Plutonia Project. Or, so he might have been, but that was the basis for the facial work T_T John Romero was incredible, I always wanted to meet him... (there again, whoever is a doom fan, DOESNT wanna meet him?)

Haha yea let the old fans kick ass like they used to and allow new fans to know how much fun it was then and now!!!

02-22-09 19:36 #

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Zocker4ever
Registered just to make one post

Posts: 1
Registered: 03-09

I hope Doom 4 will be a real badass game.
And more like the classice games (especially like D64).
With more weapons, like a flamethrower, a sniper rifle, or other demonic weapons like the unmaker.
Or modifyable weapons, that the unmaker suck out life from enemys (and other humans ;)), the flame-weapon with a chemical additive, rocket launchers with target tracking etc.
More (diffrent) demons in bigger/diffrent areas, like a deep circle in hell without fire, only with cold and ice and ice-demons of course.

All in one just a good Doom like the classice games with cool additional stuff...

03-13-09 15:09 #

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kristus
Megablast!

Posts: 9568
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@Zocker4ever: So in other words. You hope it'll be nothing like the classic Doom games.

03-13-09 15:24 #

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geo
Senior Member

Posts: 1295
Registered: 10-05

I saw an interview on GameTrailers TV where a designer (with long hair, wish I could remember his name) gave some brief updates on games set to be released. He made Doom sound like it was going to be very changed. The host of the show was hinting that players want open outdoor combat (like how Doom II was opened). The programmer gave no hints.

03-13-09 15:41 #

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Satyr000
Member

Posts: 268
Registered: 10-08

tsareppsun said:
And I'm damn tired not being able to see my legs when I'm runnin' around shooting stuff.

And I'm glad you mentioned HALO esselfortium, you notice on BUNGIE's Halo engine that when you kill a enemy and you vacate the area, even for a long time and for whatever reason you return to that area you took down the enemy, the bodies are STILL there.

I don't care about things like this. They do nothing to improve game play. If being a floating torso and having enemies that disappear will allow more game engine/system resources to be used for other things, I'm all for it. I would much rather see more enemies in screen at once or more detailed/larger level.

Game play over every thing else.

03-13-09 16:37 #

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Necros20
Junior Member

Posts: 190
Registered: 12-07

I'm expecting that they'll reveal something about Doom 4 at this year's Quakecon.

03-19-09 17:28 #

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Airman266
Loser

Posts: 197
Registered: 08-04

Doom 4 is probably gonna suck because apparently Carmack is listening to the whiners who thought the game should've just been a shoot'em up like Halo, where you go into a room and the same old cast of characters bombards you for a min or two, then you go to the next room and the same thing happens, with no variation. Just as long as there's lots of stuff to shoot these people are happy; nevermind having atmosphere, great visuals and a gripping story. Sorry, games just aren't made for target practice anymore. I like to immerse myself in a game, not blow through it as fast as possible.

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03-21-09 10:43 #

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Edward850
Member

Posts: 313
Registered: 08-07

Airman266 said:
Doom 4 is probably gonna suck because apparently Carmack is listening to the whiners who thought the game should've just been a shoot'em up like Halo,

I'm sorry, could you tell us where your source for this information is, again?

03-21-09 11:36 #

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Airman266
Loser

Posts: 197
Registered: 08-04

It was a passing comment by Carmack that they were gonna try to give the game more action, which I took to mean he read too much garbage from junk players who just wanted to run around like maniacs via deathmatch shooting wildly instead of having a structured game.

03-21-09 18:58 #

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Coopersville
Get Psyched!

Posts: 2722
Registered: 10-01

It's not trying to make Doom 4 like Halo, it's making Doom 4 like Doom. If they start adding a separate grenade key, a melee attack, and newb tubes, I might be inclined to side with you. Otherwise, if you're looking for something else, there are several IP's to choose from.

03-21-09 19:52 #

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Airman266
Loser

Posts: 197
Registered: 08-04

I'm not looking for that either, that's just the impression I got from what Carmack said. It sounded like he read too many complaints by people who thought the game had too much atmosphere and that there weren't 60 monsters on screen at once. There were plenty of people, like me, who thought the game was great the way it was. Hopefully they don't fuck up.

03-22-09 18:08 #

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DoomMaster
Warming Up

Posts: 16
Registered: 03-09

IF DOOM 4 IS LIKE DOOM 3, I WILL NOT BUY IT! COME ON ID! MAKE DOOM IV LIKE THE ORIGNAL DOOM OR DOOM II! NONE OF THIS HORROR SILENT HILL TYPE GAMEPLAY! LIKE ORIGANAL DOOM 3 THAT WAS FUN!

03-23-09 18:04 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6119
Registered: 06-06

DoomMaster said:
IF DOOM 4 IS LIKE DOOM 3, I WILL NOT BUY IT! COME ON ID! MAKE DOOM IV LIKE THE ORIGNAL DOOM OR DOOM II! NONE OF THIS HORROR SILENT HILL TYPE GAMEPLAY! LIKE ORIGANAL DOOM 3 THAT WAS FUN!

You just contradicted yourself, and Doom 3 is cool, because it already is called Doom. Whoever says it sucks just can't take it. And even I may get sick or tired of Doom 3, just like I may get so of Doom 2 or 1.

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03-23-09 21:14 #

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Nems
I don't know how to use the [img] tag

Posts: 246
Registered: 07-05

DoomMaster said:
IF DOOM 4 IS LIKE DOOM 3, I WILL NOT BUY IT! COME ON ID! MAKE DOOM IV LIKE THE ORIGNAL DOOM OR DOOM II! NONE OF THIS HORROR SILENT HILL TYPE GAMEPLAY! LIKE ORIGANAL DOOM 3 THAT WAS FUN!

http://www.352media.com/rantingandr...es/CapsLock.jpg

Also, Doom 4 needs more Spider Masterminds, Arachnatrons, Pain Elementals, and a final boss that not only proves to be a challenge, but gives the player a "Oh balls" moment. The Cyberdemon battle was, for me, too easy. ):

Last edited by Nems on 03-24-09 at 04:34

03-24-09 04:27 #

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Ghastly_dragon
Mini-Member

Posts: 85
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Nems said:

Doom 4 needs more Spider Masterminds, Arachnatrons, Pain Elementals

If not in the actual game, then leave it to the community.

03-24-09 14:32 #

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Nems
I don't know how to use the [img] tag

Posts: 246
Registered: 07-05

Ghastly_dragon said:

If not in the actual game, then leave it to the community.

One of the reasons I love the Doom community as well as the modding community in general. I'm liking what they're doing so far. (:

03-24-09 23:19 #

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Airman266
Loser

Posts: 197
Registered: 08-04

DoomMaster said:
IF DOOM 4 IS LIKE DOOM 3, I WILL NOT BUY IT! COME ON ID! MAKE DOOM IV LIKE THE ORIGNAL DOOM OR DOOM II! NONE OF THIS HORROR SILENT HILL TYPE GAMEPLAY! LIKE ORIGANAL DOOM 3 THAT WAS FUN!

This is the kinda garbage I get the impression Carmack has been reading and wants to cater to these idiots who just wanna run around and shoot stuff with better graphics. LAME. Doom 3 was interesting, it had story, it had feeling. The people who complained were mostly people that ran through the game trying to play it like the old Doom and didn't take the time to read or listen to anything or pick up the clues to what was going on. If you immersed yourself in the game, it was a helluva ride.

I will agree though that I'd like to see the monsters that were missing added back in, if anything at least the Spiders. I thought the concept art for the spider looked amazing, was very disappointed I didn't get to fight that mother. The cyberdemon did give me a heart attack when I was going down through the ruins and I could hear it, and when I first saw it. But then the battle was indeed way too easy. The thing was dumb as a box of rocks, and the area you fought it in provided a braindead easy strategy.

03-25-09 02:44 #

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TheDarkArchon
Forum Staple

Posts: 2281
Registered: 08-04

Airman266 said:

This is the kinda garbage I get the impression Carmack has been reading and wants to cater to these idiots who just wanna run around and shoot stuff with better graphics. LAME.

You realise this is mostly a classic Doom forum, classic Doom being a game that involves running around and shooting shit with state-of-the-art graphics (Well, state-of-the-art by 1993 standards), right?

Doom 3 was interesting, it had story, it had feeling. The people who complained were mostly people that ran through the game trying to play it like the old Doom and didn't take the time to read or listen to anything or pick up the clues to what was going on. If you immersed yourself in the game, it was a helluva ride.

Doom 3's story in less that 5 words: Completely and utterly forgettable

03-25-09 03:40 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 6119
Registered: 06-06

TheDarkArchon said:

You realise this is mostly a classic Doom forum, classic Doom being a game that involves running around and shooting shit with state-of-the-art graphics (Well, state-of-the-art by 1993 standards), right?[/B]

But it's not called anything like classicdoomworld (classicdoom in fact is another site) but generally doomworld, and it seems that its front page also tells news stories about totally other games, like Wolfenstein or Rage.

It just happens that most persistently posting members here are from before August 2004 so they've created a thicker theme around Doom 1 and 2. We may have to wait until some new poster decides to break the trend and write interesting and playable and well-advertised mods or stories in this subforum, that have no more to do with DOOM 3 not running on their comp, or actually present the game in more appealing palettes, with similarities with the older two chapters.

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03-25-09 08:55 #

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