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Orchid87
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Imagine yourself being a Doom 3 creative director in 2002-2004. What whould you change about the game? Only realistic changes, not "open-world" or something similar please.

I would get rid of Betruger because I've always found the idea of some old fart being behind the demonic invasion atmosphere-ruining. And his taunts were really silly. I'd like to have some ancient faceless demonic force as my enemy.

Also both Swann and Campbell are lame characters as well, so I would cut them too.

I do like Sarge though and the idea of a higher-in command who gets corrupted is nice.

Also I'd bring back mastermind and arachnotrons, redesign plasma-rifle to look and sound more similar to it's classic incarnation, and add some concrete walls to the martian base. Sure, metal walls everywhere are nice and high-tec, but some rusty concrete walls a la Stalker would be neat.

Last edited by Orchid87 on 10-14-11 at 11:31

Old Post 10-14-11 11:26 #
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Redeemer812
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I would make the game less centered on overly complicated steel machinery and use more of a bulky and clunky aesthetic for the game's technology, like the original Doom.


Orchid87 said:
I would get rid of Betruger because I've always found the idea of some old fart being behind the demonic invasion atmosphere-ruining. And his taunts were really silly. I'd like to have some ancient faceless demonic force as my enemy.

I completely agree with this.


Orchid87 said:
Also both Swann and Campbell are lame characters as well, so I would cut them too.

You could cut Swann, but Campbell is pretty of cool. :-)


Orchid87 said:
Sure, metal walls everywhere are nice and high-tec, but some rusty concrete walls a la Stalker would be neat.

Not only that, but it's more realistic as well. While it makes perfect sense that the outer walls of the base should be steel, there's no reason for them to use steel for all of the inner walls too. Concrete and brick walls would be cheaper and do the job just fine.

Old Post 10-14-11 14:36 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Concrete and Brick I'd think would be easier to repair than steel.

However, I do sorta like Betruger, but I don't exactly like that he was sorta the one to bring Hell to Mars as opposed to the UAC in general. That's the idea I got out of it anyway.

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Old Post 10-14-11 23:00 #
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DeumReaper
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I thought there wasn't enough hell levels compared to the amount of techbase ones, I would have changed it so that the player goes to hell from delta labs like it is now; but have nothing but Hell levels for the rest of the game (like original episode 3), and maybe have it so the last level is the portal back to Mars/Earth.

Old Post 10-14-11 23:43 #
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printz
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- Change Betruger from being an ugly villain to just a hapless (non-)victim or secondary villain (Faustian opportunist). Motivation: he looked too obvious as a villain he became corny when he started being antagonistic.

- Remove the hell level altogether and keep it for a sequel. Motivation: it just doesn't fit with the large quantity of realistic Mars levels and doesn't work well placed in the middle, with an average boss and utterly linear (non-looping) level design. It felt like shoved in just so that Doom 3 has a hell level.

- Encourage more optional puzzle solving or secret finding by reading PDAs, and not only security codes. Motivation: games should encourage you to think as well as act quickly. People, especially popular games, really neglect the potential of intelligence, and tend to make you lazy with the brain.

Old Post 10-15-11 07:49 #
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Redstar
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Orchid87 said:I would get rid of Betruger because I've always found the idea of some old fart being behind the demonic invasion atmosphere-ruining. And his taunts were really silly. I'd like to have some ancient faceless demonic force as my enemy.

I liked Betruger, though I admit his character was extremely obvious and cliched. It would have helped if they had given him some motivation for wanting "Hell on Earth."

Like, is he just insane or was he possessed by a demon during the initial experiments? The backstory suggests that he was once a talented and ambitious man, but the experiments "changed him." Was he possessed or just corrupted by the prospect of ungodly power?

Making him possessed would make the game so much more interesting, though making him literally an evil human being and a demon much like the Hellspawn would make him as a character more interesting.

I agree that lots of atmospheric and gameplay mechanics should have been changed, but I'll just say that they only went halfway with the story. They hooked me, but after that they just didn't explore those concepts well enough. They might as well have just not had a story at all if they were going to underutilize it in the actual game.

Old Post 10-15-11 08:14 #
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ducon
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More demons, more swarms, more speed.

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Old Post 10-15-11 13:04 #
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Xeros612
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Not a damn thing. Well, no, that's not true. I'd make Bertruger a more menacing villain and less of a childrens' cartoon villain. "I have the soulcube with me in HELL! And you'll NEVER find it!" / "You will NEVER find the thing you seek!"

Also, change his name. Considering (I can't remember where the hell I found it, but I remember something stating) his name is basically a minor alteration of the German word for "traitor". Too obvious.

@Redstar: I think the motivation was given in the game, was it not? He went through the portal because he was motivated and really into the portal tech, and by the time he returned, he was a different person. That give the impression that he was possessed, went mad, or was fully taken over by something in hell.

Old Post 10-15-11 16:05 #
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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang
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First of all, I would like to change the darkness of the game, or add some original pickups like light goggles, soulspheres etc.

Second I hope to add original monsters like Barons and PEs back to Doom 3.

And finally I would like to have Dr. Betruger back to fight with the players, not as a maledict, but a original human with super-strength or something like Sergeant Kelly(Saboath) does.

Old Post 10-15-11 18:36 #
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Redstar
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Xeros612 said:@Redstar: I think the motivation was given in the game, was it not? He went through the portal because he was motivated and really into the portal tech, and by the time he returned, he was a different person. That give the impression that he was possessed, went mad, or was fully taken over by something in hell.

Well, that's the explanation for *how*, not for *why*.

Old Post 10-15-11 20:28 #
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Dr. Durr
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Make Betruger being evil less obvious.
And make it less Half-Lifey.

Old Post 10-17-11 01:33 #
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geo
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Realistic changes? I'd dumb down the realism. Sure have glass and no air on mars terrain, but understand the game is about action not horror.

More monsters on screen... less polygons. You can have uber detailed polygonal sweat dripping monsters face to face, but from a far I don't think anyone really cares.

I'd have wider spaces and less darkness in 90% of the places. Less blasting forward more having to actually aim your gun. I'd bluntly tell people shotgun = shot range death weapon instead of people complaining how they can't kill a gnat from 100 meters away.

I'd have an old school shotgun as well as the futuristic shotgun. The old school one can kill from a distance. But it will only hold 2 shots.

I'd put a flashlight on the end of your shotgun or ON YOUR HELMET!!!! Find some duct tape and put the flashlight on your helmet, armor or weapons. It just makes sense... But you need to find more than 1 flashlight, because all weapons would need them.

Flashlights would use power... you'd need to turn it off to recharge it or whatever. I'd have night vision goggles. Heat vision just for the fun of it, but that might feel too Predator.

I'd have better fish punches. Like dynamic ones. Puch once and its a straight jab, hold left and its a hook, hold right its a right hook, hold back and punch then its an uppercut. Turkey puncher indeed... Anyway, when brawling with enemies if you dare to run out of ammo. Different enemies would require different punches... but maybe people would feel its too complex.

I'd have a flame thrower... just for fun. I'd make the pipe bombs get shot out of the end of the machine gun or assault rifle so the pipe bombs are useful...

When you or enemies run through flames you get lit on fire and take constant damage for a while. It will look cool to see certain enemies on fire and smoking.

I'd have more helper AI chumps. I mean other marines that briefly help you... but then get shot and rise as zombies. I'd have LESS friendlies. Everyone is dead but you and five people. Then one of those 5 people can explain why all of you haven't changed... its because soul whisps didn't go through you... you weren't bit by a zombie, you weren't ressurected by an arch vile... and you didn't go through the portal... yet.

I'd have more dead bodies look like they've been tortured. More zombie look variety. Sure its all the same body... but having different clothes and faces with random gore. Heck random faces, random hair, random clothes, random gore already on them.

I'd have previously damaged enemies like Pinkies with broken teeth and gory openings. Zombies would already have missing legs and arms. Shoot out a zombie's legs and it drops, but still crawls to you ala Resident Evil.

Men and women tied to the walls who are obviously dead can have their heads lift off into a futuristic lost soul (not the old school one those are made by pain elementals).

I'd have more hell... less base. More outdoor Mars to change things up. More sewers. More blood rivers. More glowing nukage.

I'd have tower of babel in hell complete with the cyber demon.

I'd use cheap mirror tricks like you shoot at an enemy... turns out its your reflection. You walk by a mirror to notice an enemy in the mirror. You walk by a mirror with no enemy, but the enemy is there when you come back. Then I'd have mind fucks where you walk by the mirror and there's an enemy... you turn around and there's nothing there.

I'd have the Arch Vile ressurect zombies since the demons burn up.

Blogs and PDAs would be audio logs or holo-logs where you push a button and vwoosh there's something like a cut scene right there in blue scratchy hologram form. Complete with the horrible deaths. You're not forced to watch it, but you can walk through it or turn it off.

In fact you can even hear voices of giggles and hapiness or someone yelling help... help only to discover its a holo-log... complete with a trap. Maybe the holo log is a bit much...

Maybe just ghostly echos of the dead.

Maybe I'm just on crack....

Old Post 10-24-11 02:21 #
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yellowmadness54
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The alpha shot gun would have stayed. It looked far cooler.

Bodies wouldn't fade away, more gore, more hell...

I mean really, I'm just going to repeat whats been said plenty before.

I'd perhaps.... make the cacodemons furrier and more common, and make pinkies a little bulkier than they are.

I, too, have always wanted it to be like

On Mars- demons appear as they are

In Hell- appear as they would if doom 2 was updated, with hooves, all the classic demon stuff.

Old Post 10-24-11 02:31 #
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Grantman711
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Doom 3 changes?

Doom 3 would have drivable Vehicles,
Campaign Coop like LMS mod
Better Lighting
Classic feel

Better music,

Better online play with game Modes like halo and monster hunt

And the Maps would be more open to Allow you to go outside and explore mars more, explore hell more...

Doom 3's disappointment...
The fact that Even though your on mars, There's only a couple of scenes where you actually get to go outside...It was sad...

Also More monsters would have been added Like in classic Doom

Old Post 10-24-11 02:42 #
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yellowmadness54
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Grantman711 said:

Also More monsters would have been added Like in classic Doom



What do you mean? A lot of the enemies from doom were in there plus new ones.

-----Same-----
cyberdemon
cacodemon
zombie man
shotgun guy
chaingunner
imp
mancubus
hell knight
demon
lost soul
arch-vile
revenant

-----New-----
trite
tick
wraith
bruiser
commando (tentacle one)
forgotten one
guardian
vulgar

and plenty others.

Old Post 10-24-11 03:29 #
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geo
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... yep sometimes people overlook the obvious.

Old Post 10-24-11 04:57 #
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DoomUK
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Orchid87 said:
I would get rid of Betruger because I've always found the idea of some old fart being behind the demonic invasion atmosphere-ruining. And his taunts were really silly. I'd like to have some ancient faceless demonic force as my enemy.

Strictly speaking Betruger wasn't the primary antagonist of Doom 3. He just happened to be the mad/evil scientist who opened the metaphorical gates of hell. You could also argue that he was possessed by some demonic power to do the things he did in the first place.

Wait, why am I taking the plot of Doom 3 so seriously?

Old Post 10-24-11 09:44 #
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Phml
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More demons, more swarms, more speed.


That's about it, yep.

Also agree that too much emphasis was put on Betruger. Doom is at its best when the source of evil remains abstract and inhuman. Trying to force people into the story just comes off as yet another B movie. If you can't write, stay vague and players can interpret the plot the best possible way, with their own imagination.

Old Post 10-24-11 10:24 #
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Gez
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Orchid87 said:
Imagine yourself being a Doom 3 creative director in 2002-2004. What whould you change about the game? Only realistic changes, not "open-world" or something similar please.


Given the engine and the hardware limitations, I won't, contrarily to the rest of Doomworld, say "moar monsters at once".

However, more colorful monsters. Pink, red, brown, tan, blue, green, like in the classic. Instead of just sickly zombie flesh gray and sickly anal-probing alien gray.

Monsters slightly slower, so you have more time to actually look at them and see the difference between an imp, a wraith and a maggot.

Corpses wouldn't burn immediately. Instead, a simple Hexen-style corpse queue system would be implemented. That way, when revisiting an area, the bodies might have disappeared to leave some computational power for new fights at the same place, but at least it doesn't happen right before your eyes. (And it opens some ambiguity about what happened exactly, especially if the level features arch-viles.)

Old Post 10-24-11 10:48 #
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Xeros612
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Grantman711 said:
Better Lighting



1. WHAT? iD Tech IV had the most advanced lighting system of any game engine of its time and hell, it even surpasses many engines today.


geo said:
fish punches.

Heh.

Old Post 10-24-11 17:55 #
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geo
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Fish punches lol At least someone read my wall-o-text. :-)

Chances are the guy that wanted lighting wanted... brighter lighting. Less dark. Chances are better lighting would really make everything dull and the sameish.

Old Post 10-24-11 17:58 #
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Vordakk
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Gez said:

Corpses wouldn't burn immediately. Instead, a simple Hexen-style corpse queue system would be implemented. That way, when revisiting an area, the bodies might have disappeared to leave some computational power for new fights at the same place, but at least it doesn't happen right before your eyes. (And it opens some ambiguity about what happened exactly, especially if the level features arch-viles.)



Yeah, I remember being a bit bummed when I realized that corpses never stayed around. It's fun sometimes to go back through an area and see the mayhem you caused. Now that the DOOM 3 source code is out, I wonder if someone could alter this behavior with a mod?

Old Post 10-26-11 21:08 #
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Grantman711
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To clear up my previous Post

More monsters, Not means More monster Characters,

I would Like to have 20 imps coming at me at once and try to fight off massive hoards of enemies, that's what could improve doom 3. Tons of hoards coming at you, but low on ammo. I like that instead of the whole, Lets put one bad guy against you and scare the crap out of you with cheap holly wood scare tactics. Game should be about skill, not a house of horrors. It did have a good story line however, I think It made it realistic.

As for the Better Lighting, The fact that the Lighting in the whole game Is amazing, mixed with the dark is good, But I was disappointed that throughout half the game, You were fumbling in the dark and had to bring up your flashlight every time to enjoy any of the graphics or scenery. Not that Having some Pitch black moments in a game is bad, Its just if you make the whole game that way with a new graphics engine...It really defeats the purpose of having better graphics if your players can't even enjoy them cuz the whole game is played in the dark.

As for Coop I was really disappointed that ID games didn't incorporate that into their originals, that would have been amazing to see your buddies get freaked out the same with you...It would be hallarious....

Better music, It was really disappointing the whole...Death metal...They could have had Got a better band to play....something that would pump you up rather than demonic metal songs...Yea it went with the game, but It was disappointing...

I think lastly like I said before, Not enough gametime in the martian atmosphere, If your gonna make a game based on mars...People need to see the martian surface every once and a while...Players dont wanna be cooped up in some dark ass place where theres no room to explore...

open world thankyou...

thats all I have to say, Doom 3 is an amazing games, with the right mods...

Call me old fashioned, but I wish doom 3 was like the originals with better graphics, you just cant beat killing massive hords of enemies...

Old Post 10-27-11 04:15 #
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Mogul
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What would I change about Doom 3? Very little. Maybe some AI/enemy behavior mechanic tweaks to make the combat a little more fluid and fun. To ignore the incredible artistic achievement that this game brought to the table by changing everything from the lighting, to the sound and music, to the character and monster designs, would be intolerably tasteless.

It is clear that id's artists took their time with the technology and really understood how to make a scene stunningly beautiful with the then-incredible technology they got to use. The lighting in this game is still unmatched, to me, not in terms of realism or technical prowess(where it is easily trounced by several modern games), but in terms of style. The game's ability to bring out an absolutely beautiful scene in a room really does remain unmatched, I think. Turn on the lights, as some have suggested? Go fuck yourself and play DNF. Furthermore, some of the architecture and character gear designs were so good, I'd say they're reminiscent of some of the greatest designers in visual entertainment ever. Thinking specifically of Mobius. They furthered this taste in design in some of Rage's characters.

As for the gameplay? No, sorry, the game isn't an action game. It is a horror game. But, as previously mentioned, the gameplay isn't at all beyond criticism. I think some enemies are downright annoying to kill, and just aren't fun to fight. Again, this is something I think they pretty much nailed with Rage.

These things are mere tweaking problems, up against "OH LET'S GET A CHAINSAW ARM," or, "TURN ON THE LIGHTS AND CRANK UP THE METAL MUSIC MUURRRRR." Even the "I want 50 enemies" suggestion misses the point. Can you imagine having 20 (or whatever other arbitrary DOOM 1-ish number you want) Doom 3 imps on you at once? What a gameplay clusterfuck. The problem isn't the number, it's the mechanics of how the monsters behave.

The Doom 3 forum never ceases to astound me with its never-ending flow of moronic posts featuring terrible, almost senseless alternative game design suggestions. Oh, and the re-hashing of threads that have existed for years, and years... and years. It happens nearly daily.

Old Post 10-27-11 20:48 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Grantman711 said:
Better music, It was really disappointing the whole...Death metal...They could have had Got a better band to play....something that would pump you up rather than demonic metal songs...Yea it went with the game, but It was disappointing...


I played both XBox and PC Doom 3 all the way through and I have yet to hear any Death Metal. Where exactly does it play at?

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Old Post 10-27-11 20:52 #
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printz
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Grantman711 said:

Better music, It was really disappointing the whole...Death metal...They could have had Got a better band to play....something that would pump you up rather than demonic metal songs...Yea it went with the game, but It was disappointing...

I was biased against death metal music in games when I tried Doom 3, but I really liked the start-up main menu music, it felt so original. It's even better that it will most often play either at startup (which you skip quickly) or after you win the goddamn game, probably twice (often during credits), feeling very refreshing. Listening to it to the end makes me feel awesome because I associate it with finishing a mission pack.

It's also like a false victory. Hearing the same tune at the end as at the start, it's like going all over again, which is quite typical to playing Doom in general.

Old Post 10-27-11 21:23 #
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Marnetmar
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printz said:
I was biased against death metal music in games when I tried Doom 3, but I really liked the start-up main menu music,


You've not a clue what Death Metal is.

That aside, EYES AND GOATLEGS, DAMMIT!

Old Post 10-27-11 22:46 #
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Mogul
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The comments about Doom 3's music being death metal... my fucking god. I need to just stop visiting this forum.

Old Post 10-28-11 06:38 #
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printz
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Marnetmar said:


You've not a clue what Death Metal is.

Yes I do, but I was too lazy to find out the exact type, and just "Metal" sounds too trite.

Old Post 10-28-11 10:36 #
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D_GARG
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metal sounds good to me, as long as you dont throw in iron maiden or metallica(neither with vocals or not[and make it adapted to the game grim and evil]) u know what I mean

Old Post 10-28-11 11:16 #
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