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hardcore_gamer
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Don't read if you don't like spoilers, obviously.

I just played The Lost Mission from the BFG version and there are some interesting new things we learn about the story.

There are 2 new things that we learn that we did not know before.

The first thing is how Betruger started to work for the demons. According to a video disc that you obtain from a scientist you meet, Betruger was contacted by the demons in his dreams where they offered him god like powers in exchange for control of Earth.

The second new interesting bit is that at the end a group of marines come and rescue both you as well as the scientist that gave you the video disc. This however doesn't add up, because according to RoE there were no survivors except for the Doom marine in the first game and yet the Lost Mission takes place during the events of Doom 3.

There is however a possible explanation that makes sense: The UAC covered it up.

Think about it. If the marine from the first game had been the only survivor then it is possible that nobody believed him and that he was simply considered mad, but since we now know that there were at least 3 people that knew the truth and did not die then that means that the UAC must have known the truth also, because it would not make sense for 3 people to all tell the same mad lie. This means that the UAC must be corrupt and simply decided to cover things ups.

What are your thoughts on this?

Old Post 10-20-12 23:35 #
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Eris Falling
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If the UAC is corrupt, then I see a very good plot for Doom 4.

Old Post 10-20-12 23:38 #
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Fuzzyfireball
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

Besides being lazy, it's called the lost mission and is scrapped material, so I wouldn't think it's canon? IDK. That's my thought.

Old Post 10-21-12 00:49 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Fuzzyfireball said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

Besides being lazy, it's called the lost mission and is scrapped material, so I wouldn't think it's canon? IDK. That's my thought.



Wow! That video showed ENTIRE TWO rooms that looked similar!

While I did notice that there were some areas and rooms in The Lost Mission that did look just a bit too familar they still weren't all copy pasted. And the 2 new hell levels were completely new, and they were both fairly awesome.

I also liked it how past faced the action was in The Lost Levels compared to the original Doom 3.

I know that there are some issues with the BFG version but it seriously sounds like a lot of people are complaining just for the sake of complaining.

Old Post 10-21-12 02:32 #
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Clonehunter
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Eris Falling said:
If the UAC is corrupt, then I see a very good plot for Doom 4.


Not that Doom 4 is a sequel to Doom 3 (Or is it now). But yes, the UAC has always intrigued me slightly. I'd actually like to see more if it.

Old Post 10-21-12 02:45 #
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Caffeine Freak
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hardcore_gamer said:


Wow! That video showed ENTIRE TWO rooms that looked similar!

While I did notice that there were some areas and rooms in The Lost Mission that did look just a bit too familar they still weren't all copy pasted. And the 2 new hell levels were completely new, and they were both fairly awesome.



I noticed this as well, and actually thought the copy-paste was a bit excessive at times. But to say it made up about half the game is pretty ridiculous. Also, I think what some people fail to grasp is the concept of pre-fabs(re-useable set pieces in maps, either brushes or models) that are used for the sake of design consistency. This game takes place parallel to D3, and in the same base to boot, so for there not to be at least SOME similarities and re-used architecture would be quite strange.


Video poster said:
I would guess that nearly half of the "all-new" Lost Mission maps taking place in the UAC facility are based directly on previously existing Doom 3 levels with minimal modifications.


Umm, no.

Old Post 10-21-12 02:52 #
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DooM_RO
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Fuzzyfireball said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv1nKtRH4xE

Besides being lazy, it's called the lost mission and is scrapped material, so I wouldn't think it's canon? IDK. That's my thought.



I knew it! I knew something was fishy. Perhaps they are the vanilla maps in alpha stage? I am not majorly upset or anything but I am going to show this video to some Id Software employees just for shit and giggles,

Old Post 10-21-12 07:28 #
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hardcore_gamer
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DooM_RO said:


I knew it! I knew something was fishy. Perhaps they are the vanilla maps in alpha stage? I am not majorly upset or anything but I am going to show this video to some Id Software employees just for shit and giggles,



And how are you going to show it to them? Do you know any of them?

Old Post 10-21-12 08:34 #
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DooM_RO
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hardcore_gamer said:


And how are you going to show it to them? Do you know any of them?



On twitter.

Old Post 10-21-12 08:43 #
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Fuzzyfireball
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hardcore_gamer said:
Wow! That video showed ENTIRE TWO rooms that looked similar!


Read the video description and you'll see more. I'm complaining because it's lazy, I expect more from id.

Old Post 10-21-12 09:00 #
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Avoozl
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Well they are most likely prefabs, quite a few games use prefabs especially Hellgate: London which used them too much.

Old Post 10-21-12 10:10 #
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Sodaholic
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I think I just realized where that 60 FOV bullshit is coming from, people might be referring to the vertical FOV instead of the 4:3 aspect ratio FOV that people should be referring to. In this case, yes, it is 60 degrees vertically, but guess what? The original vertical FOV was 67.5 degrees. 8 degree difference in vertical FOV isn't a big deal. It just isn't.

Old Post 10-21-12 10:31 #
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Jimi
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Or maybe the rescue ship that saved them got into an accident after the rescue? Mixom door bolts exploded and everyone was flushed out into the space!

Old Post 10-21-12 17:06 #
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printz
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hardcore_gamer said:

The first thing is how Betruger started to work for the demons. According to a video disc that you obtain from a scientist you meet, Betruger was contacted by the demons in his dreams where they offered him god like powers in exchange for control of Earth.

That was obvious.


The second new interesting bit is that at the end a group of marines come and rescue both you as well as the scientist that gave you the video disc. This however doesn't add up, because according to RoE there were no survivors except for the Doom marine in the first game and yet the Lost Mission takes place during the events of Doom 3.

There is however a possible explanation that makes sense: The UAC covered it up.

Think about it. If the marine from the first game had been the only survivor then it is possible that nobody believed him and that he was simply considered mad, but since we now know that there were at least 3 people that knew the truth and did not die then that means that the UAC must have known the truth also, because it would not make sense for 3 people to all tell the same mad lie. This means that the UAC must be corrupt and simply decided to cover things ups.

What are your thoughts on this?

That was obvious too.

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Old Post 10-21-12 17:11 #
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Revenant100
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hardcore_gamer said:
Wow! That video showed ENTIRE TWO rooms that looked similar!
Greetings, hardcore_gamer! If you check my video description, you'll see I had no intention of including all identical areas within the video itself as recording those side-by-side comparisons is a lot of trouble, especially considering just how many there are.

However, I've been collecting additional comparisons as screenshots and including them in the description. These are the identical Lost Mission/Doom 3 rooms I've captured so far:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6472/d3bfglobby.jpg
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/...3bfggarage2.jpg
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/2175/d3bfgchasar.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3825/d3bfgsurfacen.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5720/d3bfgoffice.jpg
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/...ghallwindow.jpg
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8428/d3bfgbridge.jpg
http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/...fgmetalhall.jpg

The Lost Mission's EnPro and Exis Labs are Doom 3's own EnPro and Delta Labs, respectively, copied to a tee. Of course, LM seems to lift from far more than that, namely Mars City as evidenced in the video, but it's tricky cataloging everything when the LM devs used some clever (and not-so-clever) tricks to disguise the areas they copied. It also doesn't help that I haven't played Doom 3 in about seven years. I may just call for help from the community on this one. It could be a fun group effort!

Old Post 10-21-12 18:06 #
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Gez
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Revenant100 said:
The Lost Mission's EnPro and Exis Labs are Doom 3's own EnPro and Delta Labs, respectively, copied to a tee.


It'd make sense that the EnPro labs are the same, since they actually are the same. Just visited at different times by different marines.

This explanation, however, doesn't extend to Exis Labs/Delta labs.

Old Post 10-21-12 18:29 #
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Revenant100
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Gez said:
It'd make sense that the EnPro labs are the same, since they actually are the same. Just visited at different times by different marines.
The Lost Mission's Bravo Team marine doesn't visit the same locations as Doom Guy, however. You visit two new sectors of EnPro. It's just that those new sectors of EnPro happen to be comprised of cut up and mish-mashed bits of Doom 3's EnPro with some Mars City (and likely more, I haven't finished checking) thrown in for good measure.

Old Post 10-21-12 19:10 #
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Sodaholic
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I'm wondering what the UAC did to the other survivors besides the main Doom 3 marine if they covered it up. I hope they weren't killed by the UAC and acted like the demons did it during the invasion.

Furthermore, why would the UAC have any reason to cover up other survivors? Was it to prevent the real story of how the demon invasion began getting leaked? If so, why wouldn't they cover up the main marine's survival as well, considering that he also learned the true events during the course of his mission?

Lastly, I wonder if there was no coverup and that they just retconned it so that more people survived but didn't bother changing the original opening text of RoE.

Old Post 11-01-12 08:22 #
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DeimosKnight
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The UAC in Doom, and most particularly in Doom 3, is modeled off of the Weyland-Yutani Company from Aliens. The most obvious example is in Doom 3 when Betruger claims that the UAC is only concerned about making money (which is what the Company in Aliens is also only concerned with). If id wanted to be even more closer to Aliens, perhaps the UAC thought that the denizens from Hell could make a pretty nifty superweapon? Non, that would make the UAC seem like a bunch of morons. Or--

What if the main staff of the UAC have made pacts with the demons already, for the promise of greater glory and wealth? That seems more likely, since every ominous business has established the Faustian Model as the most efficient way to be successful. Unless the demons decide to outsource the company to the deepest level of Hell...

Yep. The UAC are run by morons.

Old Post 12-06-12 07:32 #
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Gez
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DeimosKnight said:
The UAC in Doom, and most particularly in Doom 3, is modeled off of any large corporation, real or fictional. The most obvious example is in Doom 3 when Betruger claims that the UAC is only concerned about making money (which is what any and all large corporations are solely concerned about).


Fixed.

Old Post 12-06-12 12:51 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Gez said:


Fixed.



That movie sounds like its full of cringeworthy anti-capitalist garbage and is obviously intended to serve as some kind of left leaning political propaganda.

Reading this piece alone in the wiki article was enough to put me off from checking it out:


wiki said:The Economist review suggests that the idea for an organization as a psychopathic entity originated with Max Weber, in regards to government bureaucracy. Also, the reviewer remarks that the film weighs heavily in favor of public ownership as a solution to the evils depicted



Yes, bad people exist and some of them are in control of corporations. But to argue that all corporations are these really evil groups of people that should all be done away with is just pure and utter trash.

Old Post 12-06-12 14:03 #
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Gez
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A corporation is a for-profit entity (making profit is its entire raison d'ętre) and has limited responsibility (that's what the "ltd" or "llc" means: limited).

The documentary shows that even if each member of the company's administration are, individually, ethical people who wouldn't commit crimes for personal gain; the company as a whole inevitably will act in unethical ways.

Fictional corporations like the UAC, Umbrella, Weyland-Yutani, OCP, and others are merely sci-fi caricatures of real corporations such as Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, Chiquita Brands, the supermajors, etc.

Old Post 12-06-12 15:43 #
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hardcore_gamer
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Gez said:
A corporation is a for-profit entity (making profit is its entire raison d'ętre) and has limited responsibility (that's what the "ltd" or "llc" means: limited).

The documentary shows that even if each member of the company's administration are, individually, ethical people who wouldn't commit crimes for personal gain; the company as a whole inevitably will act in unethical ways.

Fictional corporations like the UAC, Umbrella, Weyland-Yutani, OCP, and others are merely sci-fi caricatures of real corporations such as Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Halliburton, Chiquita Brands, the supermajors, etc.



So most real world corporations would be willing to build zombie factories or gateways to hell if they could? Because that is what it sounds like when you claim that the UAC and Umbrella is based of "real world corporations".

I get it that there are some corrupt corps, but dismissing corporations as being evil in general is just left-wing hogwash.

Old Post 12-06-12 16:22 #
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Gez
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hardcore_gamer said:
So most real world corporations would be willing to build zombie factories or gateways to hell if they could?


That's where the "sci-fi caricature" angle comes from. Remove the fantastic angle, and the result is merely "killing people for money", which is exactly what has happened countless times with real corporations. Bankrupting entire countries, starting wars and civil wars, propping up dictatorships, polluting millions of square miles with toxic wastes, hiring mercenaries to shoot on workers on strike, and so on.

Old Post 12-06-12 16:34 #
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DeimosKnight
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hardcore_gamer, just because Aliens and Doom feature a corporation as being amoral or unethical, that doesn't make it anti-capitalist, or hateful of every single damn corporation. Usually, depictions of those kinds of corporations can be self-referential. Game companies certainly aren't guiltless. EA, for instance, has a infamous reputation for being a purely greedy corporation (based upon their rushed games and poor treatment of employees), and Bethesda is known for its overzealous impulse for lawsuits. Even Hollywood has a reputation of being motivated purely by profit, and I think the Weyland Corporation could be seen as a subtle jab at Hollywood business (as well as one of the corporations Gez mentioned).

Keep in mind, I was being satirical when I claimed the UAC made a bargain with Hell to boost profits. No one's being ad hominem about corporations in the Doomworld forum, so relax. We all know that not all corporations are evil: only EA, IBM, SPECTRE, and that one corporation which Dilbert works for. (Just Joking!)

Old Post 12-07-12 08:03 #
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idSoftware981
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DOOM 3 BFG Edition... meh I could do more on this PC.

They had the chance to put in Sikkmod, Wulfen Parallax Textures, Monoxead's Textures, Xio's Skin Pack 2.0?, and much more.

Also, they could have remade DOOM 3 to be more like DOOM 3 Alpha both gameplay-wise and story-wise! (Oh and they could have made the DOOM 3 Alpha Shotgun model.) But oh no... they had to make it crappy..


One more thing, they censored our beloved DOOM by putting in pills instead of red crosses, and erasing all the swastikas from the Wolfenstein maps and all the Nazis that you could kill. On top of that rumors are spreading around that they will put in green blood! >:(

Old Post 12-27-12 17:48 #
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Gez
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idSoftware981 said:
They had the chance to put in Sikkmod, Wulfen Parallax Textures, Monoxead's Textures, Xio's Skin Pack 2.0?, and much more.

No. It'd be a legal headache to blindly reuse third-party content in a commercial product.


idSoftware981 said:
Also, they could have remade DOOM 3 to be more like DOOM 3 Alpha both gameplay-wise and story-wise! (Oh and they could have made the DOOM 3 Alpha Shotgun model.) But oh no... they had to make it crappy..

That's dumb. They aren't going to make a game more like its unfinished draft.


idSoftware981 said:
One more thing, they censored our beloved DOOM by putting in pills instead of red crosses, and erasing all the swastikas from the Wolfenstein maps and all the Nazis that you could kill. On top of that rumors are spreading around that they will put in green blood! >:(

Such rumors are stupid.

Old Post 12-27-12 17:57 #
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Eduardo
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hardcore_gamer said:

The second new interesting bit is that at the end a group of marines come and rescue both you as well as the scientist that gave you the video disc. This however doesn't add up, because according to RoE there were no survivors except for the Doom marine in the first game and yet the Lost Mission takes place during the events of Doom 3.

There is however a possible explanation that makes sense: The UAC covered it up.

Think about it. If the marine from the first game had been the only survivor then it is possible that nobody believed him and that he was simply considered mad, but since we now know that there were at least 3 people that knew the truth and did not die then that means that the UAC must have known the truth also, because it would not make sense for 3 people to all tell the same mad lie. This means that the UAC must be corrupt and simply decided to cover things ups.

What are your thoughts on this? [/B]


A lot of that was hinted in the DOOM Resurrection game for the iPhone.


spoiler - highlight to read:

You play another survivor of Bravo, who gathers evidence against UAC and is evacuated along other survivors.

IIRC, while showing the evac ships in space, a text appears mentioning there were no survivors...

Old Post 12-31-12 18:25 #
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