Cacodemon
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Newfangled Doom > Doom 3 General > Thoughts on "Doom 3" after much time has passed
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:02. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Da Werecat
Senior Member


Posts: 1082
Registered: 11-09


Half-Life 2 was better adapted for its time.

Old Post 08-06-13 12:34 #
Da Werecat is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Touchdown
Member


Posts: 476
Registered: 06-05


I love HL franchise but HL2 was average at best, definitively the weakest entry in the series. I like to describe it as "a number of prolonged and disjointed gameplay playgrounds". E1/2 were much much better though.

Old Post 08-06-13 14:48 #
Touchdown is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
geekmarine
Senior Member


Posts: 1573
Registered: 05-00


I thought the weapons and combat scenarios were better in HL2. Encounters were more varied, and all the weapons felt really satisfying to use. Especially in the later episodes, I think they really knew how to make all kinds of different encounters, and make them fun and memorable. I think a combination of Doom 3's style with HL2's gameplay would be very interesting.

Old Post 08-06-13 17:03 #
geekmarine is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MRB_Doom
Forum Regular


Posts: 690
Registered: 09-02


I remember here on Doomworld where we watched a guy play Doom 3 before it came out on his live feed. Oh those were the days.

Old Post 08-08-13 06:29 #
MRB_Doom is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Avoozl
Senior Member


Posts: 2451
Registered: 06-09


For me HL1 was okay at best as I was late playing it but I doubt it would've made much difference if I played it earlier anyway, as for HL2 I found it interesting enough to playthrough but it was meh overall, was already bored after playing it 1.25 times, the shooting side was very weak also.

Old Post 09-06-13 11:56 #
Avoozl is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1521
Registered: 02-11


^

At least it was something other than a Quake clone.

I love Half Life, but it's not the kind of game I'd play every day. The same goes for Doom 3. I find it ironic how some people say Doom 3 is a Half Life rip-off but fail to mention that Half Life was a ripoff of Doom. Even Gaben admitted it.

Old Post 09-09-13 06:00 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Holering
Member


Posts: 304
Registered: 01-03


Is this still the only game that casts shadows from every single pixel (with self shadowing of course)?

Old Post 09-15-13 12:26 #
Holering is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Da Werecat
Senior Member


Posts: 1082
Registered: 11-09



Holering said:
casts shadows from every single pixel

That's not how stencil shadows work.

Old Post 09-15-13 13:17 #
Da Werecat is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
schwerpunk
Senior Member


Posts: 2048
Registered: 05-12



Da Werecat said:

That's not how stencil shadows work.

Be neat if it did, though. Get some interesting dithering effects. Two-tone stecil shading; now there's an idea...!

Old Post 09-16-13 01:33 #
schwerpunk is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DoomUK
Forum Staple


Posts: 3841
Registered: 04-04



Da Werecat said:
I feel so old.

I remember waiting for this game like it was yesterday. Glaring at the promotional shots, admiring the style - everything felt so radically advanced back then.


I hear you. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I don't think I've ever experienced the same excitement over a new video game.

And yes, when Doom 3 was first shown off it was the most radical step forward in visuals that I've seen before or since. Nothing has ever come close to the effect that cinematic lighting had. It's a shame Far Cry and HL2 stole some of its technological thunder, but even when it was finally released it was pretty breathtaking to look at.

Old Post 09-16-13 13:57 #
DoomUK is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1521
Registered: 02-11


Half Life didn't steal any of the thunder from Doom 3, the only advantage it had from a tech standpoint was physics and animations. In fact, I don't see what the buzz about Half Life 2 is all about, I think it's quite mediocre, especially compared to the first. I don't think it deserves all the praise it gets, Doom 3 is better imo.

Old Post 09-16-13 15:05 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DoomUK
Forum Staple


Posts: 3841
Registered: 04-04



DooM_RO said:
Half Life didn't steal any of the thunder from Doom 3, the only advantage it had from a tech standpoint was physics and animations.

Which, 10 years ago, were unrivaled. Whether you enjoyed the game or not, the physics and animations were exactly what was so impressive about it.

Though, rather infamously, the physics were implemented poorly compared to the E3 demo or whatever it was. We were originally supposed to see AI flip over benches and hide behind barrels and whatnot. None of that actually made it to the final game.

Old Post 09-16-13 15:17 #
DoomUK is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Da Werecat
Senior Member


Posts: 1082
Registered: 11-09



DoomUK said:
Though, rather infamously, the physics were implemented poorly compared to the E3 demo or whatever it was.

Same with Doom 3.

Old Post 09-16-13 15:42 #
Da Werecat is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1521
Registered: 02-11


Am I the only one who thinks that Alyx is dreadfully annoying?

Old Post 09-16-13 15:48 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DoomUK
Forum Staple


Posts: 3841
Registered: 04-04



Da Werecat said:

Same with Doom 3.


True. But then, Doom 3's big claim to fame was always its lighting system, not its psychics.

Though I'm not saying the physics should have taken a back seat in the final game like they did. So many cool little things were missing.

Old Post 09-16-13 16:02 #
DoomUK is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Holering
Member


Posts: 304
Registered: 01-03



Da Werecat said:

That's not how stencil shadows work.



You're right. I should've said per-pixel lighting. Is it still the only game that does per-pixel lighting?

Here's a quote from the wiki:

By contrast in the new Doom 3 engine, most light sources are computed on the fly. This allows lights to cast shadows even on non-static objects such as monsters or machinery, which was impossible with static lightmaps. A shortcoming of this approach is the engine's inability to render soft shadows and global illumination.


I'll kind of answer my own question and say I wouldn't be suprised if most games still use static light sources. It's a typical way to have a typical "pretty game" without a speed hit. This wouldn't make other games bad but I think it's kind of cheap. Doom 3 was also designed for Geforce 3 hardware which I find pretty amazing (direct x 9 haze effect was only tacked on at the very end so directx 9 users could be more happy).

I honestly wish John Carmack would make his favorite game engine for Nintendo so a Metroid Prime like title would be released. Guess I can only dream it...

Last edited by Holering on 09-17-13 at 11:40

Old Post 09-17-13 11:30 #
Holering is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Da Werecat
Senior Member


Posts: 1082
Registered: 11-09



Holering said:
Is it still the only game that does per-pixel lighting?

Of course not. It's hard to imagine a modern game without per-pixel lighting.

By the way, it has nothing to do with real-time shadows. But full dynamic shadows are quite common too, stencil or not. There were examples even before Doom 3 came out.

Old Post 09-17-13 16:01 #
Da Werecat is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
FireFish
Member


Posts: 392
Registered: 04-13


almost everything you see in modern games is calculated LIVE. all the special effects, lighting, motion blur, depth of field,SSAO and more...

in this day and age the cpu its main stress point is "streaming" the content to the graphics card, where the multiple cores of the GPU will calculate anything ranging from visuals to physics... but because people tend to need quad cores in this day and age you will have 3 cores most of the time, which are free to do the rest of the game calculations like gameplay and whatever needs to be calculated on your cpu.

games look nothing like they did in 2004 when doom 3 was "extreme", there is no comparing possible between then and now. id-tech-4 is an obsolete game engine with rendering technology which most other company's started using or "inventing" 4 years after doom 3.

so, on its own it is an revolutionary piece of gaming history, containing systems close to SSAO, which was 4 years ahead of the world.

still thumbs up to ID, ID-tech 4 is the only engine i have seen next to the source engine from valve that survives time in a way no other engine visually could.

Old Post 09-18-13 19:20 #
FireFish is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2550
Registered: 07-02


Some more thoughts on Doom 3:

Judging from the save menu, I've gone through no less than 15 levels and the only signs of Hell I've seen are a couple of pentagrams and the infrequent goo flesh. In the original Doom, you were encountering some pretty hellish stuff by map 8. This is ridiculous.

Some of the story details are really cool, such as the video elaborating on attempts to dissect the monsters, but then it's juxtaposed with what's-his-face telling you the soul cube is in Hell, a monumentally cheesy line.

The way id depicted the teleport chambers is really cool.

I like all the details like knocked over trash cans, smashed computer monitors and even the presence of janitorial equipment.

In the original Doom, even in the darkest areas, you could still rely on your precise aiming to get you through. It's so dark in Doom 3 that I was frequently shooting blindly if enemies were more than a few feet away, seeing as they were caked in black.

The blackness gets so disorienting in small areas that even my flashlight doesn't help and I'm bumping into walls left and right.

The monster scares are cool the first time, then significantly less so each time I die and have to play that area again.

Some of tech areas are extremely well designed and memorable.

The voice acting is pretty shit for the most part.

Seems like the enemies rarely exhibit stun animations. This is especially bothersome on fucks like the chaingunner, who will just keep filling you with lead while you shoot him in the face.

AI is sometimes surprising, like when imps strafe out of the way and are suddenly to your extreme left or right.

I like that there's a variety of different humans to fight, much more so than the originals.

Sometimes the game reminds me a bit of Doom 64.

Old Post 09-24-13 16:36 #
GoatLord is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Jayextee
Darth Jrrr


Posts: 1250
Registered: 10-00



GoatLord said:

The voice acting is pretty shit for the most part.



In cutscenes, yes. I found that all the best and most believable stuff is in the audio logs on PDAs. Odd, that.

Old Post 09-24-13 17:58 #
Jayextee is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1521
Registered: 02-11


I think Swann's VA was quite good, actually. Betruger was horrible in all aspects though. The game would have been better without him.

Old Post 09-24-13 19:43 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Clonehunter
Forum Staple


Posts: 3609
Registered: 03-10



DooM_RO said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Alyx is dreadfully annoying?


Not as annoying as not being able to flip a boat right side up in the water, thus preventing any chance of finishing a boat level where one may of come into the exit to fast and flipped over feet from the boat garage.

Old Post 09-25-13 14:30 #
Clonehunter is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2550
Registered: 07-02



DooM_RO said:
I think Swann's VA was quite good, actually. Betruger was horrible in all aspects though. The game would have been better without him.


Absolutely. A lot of the story is pretty serious and immersive when he's not involved.

Old Post 09-25-13 14:33 #
GoatLord is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Touchdown
Member


Posts: 476
Registered: 06-05


If they had made him less cheesy and cut out all of his laughters and taunts, that would have made the tone of the game a lot better. That's what always annoys me in games, when you've got great atmosphere and tone and suddenly there's this... something, incredibly cliche and cheesy... and it just ruins it.

Old Post 09-25-13 17:25 #
Touchdown is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
DooM_RO
Senior Member


Posts: 1521
Registered: 02-11


Yeah, this shows that when everything is serious and realistic, you can't have cheesy lines and storylines like in Doom, it just feels out of place. The same is for run speeds and level design. Doom is a product of its time, you can't just copy paste stuff in a modern incarnation and expect it to be good.

Old Post 09-26-13 05:46 #
DooM_RO is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Orchid87
Junior Member


Posts: 111
Registered: 01-11


Lol still remember that HL2 vs Doom 3 holywar. In 2004 HL2 was obviously the winner, but looking at the both games now I can see that Doom 3 aged better in both gameplay and graphics (although sfx/music are still much better in HL2). HL2 has that theme park ride feel with occasional gimmicky physics puzzle while Doom 3 is just like the corridor shooter of the old like Doom 1 or HL1 which is still fun on the second playthrough. Anyway, I love both this games.

And now is my list of what Doom 3 did not good enough:

- Weapon sounds. It's the crucial part of what makes gunplay feel satisfying. Doom 3 guns sound really weak. Doom 2 SG and SSG were so much better.

- Atmosphere was not pronounced enough. Too many closet monsters and cheesy characters. I wish martian base was more lonely and frightening. Like those underground labs in Stalker. id software chose Doom 3 to be more like a horror game but they forgot what separates a good horror from stupid slasher. Ressurecting zombies and more ambient music tracks would help too. What's really funny is that Doom 3 has some atmospheric locations but you have to kill everyone beforehand to enjoy them. A good example is the toliet in the beginning of alpha labs sector 2. Creepy place

- Characters. I've said this before in another thread. Swann and Campbell are useless and boring. Also Swann looks too lame. Balding with goatee and stupid glasses. I cringe every time I see his face. Betruger is even more lame. His stupid taunts and laughs during the game ruined the atmosphere for me. For the good examples of scientists gone bad look at Half-Life 2 and Stalker games. Dr. Breen is cool and we clearly see that he is just a pawn in the hands of the myserious and very powerful forces. The collective mind in Stalker is just doing it's work on an experiment and even the post-apocalyptic Zone is a part of it. In Betruger's case we see just a mad scientist that taunts you the entire game and is the leader of the demon forces for some reason. Crazy old man should not lead demon forces period. Some kinda Lovecraftian entity should. Something very ancient, enormous and frightening.

Old Post 09-27-13 11:01 #
Orchid87 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Shaviro
Team Future Chief


Posts: 8846
Registered: 06-00


What I guess disappointed me most about Doom 3 was how it all seemed to go off the rails post the ultimate high point of the game; E3 2002. The trailer released that year was so amazing. At that time I was still confident that we'd see birdman, the arachnotron and plenty more variety. Since then they changed the shotgun for the worst, replaced the amazing sounds by extremely inferior versions. We saw 100% of the game's monsters and weapons save the cyberdemon before hand.

Old Post 09-30-13 09:33 #
Shaviro is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
MFG38
Member


Posts: 399
Registered: 05-13



DooM_RO said:
I think Swann's VA was quite good, actually.


And Sgt Kelly's.

__________________
I am mad. I am Finnish. I am a gamer. But I don't know where the number 38 came from.

Old Post 09-30-13 13:59 #
MFG38 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Da Werecat
Senior Member


Posts: 1082
Registered: 11-09


And Betruger's. His problem lies in the fact that he won't shut up, ruining the suspense.

Old Post 09-30-13 15:00 #
Da Werecat is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2550
Registered: 07-02


Betruger is so oddly out of place. He's like a relic from cheesy 80s b-horror movies, and is in conflicting contrast to the other NPCs. And yeah, his stupid laugh and taunts only serve to take away whatever suspense and atmosphere you might have been experiencing prior. I've come to see the source of the invasion as an unseen force, something that is clearly alive and sentient, but not a "creature" in the traditional sense. "Event Horizon," a film I've mentioned several times in the past, comes to mind, as the starship was somehow "alive" without an actual singular entity ever being revealed. Here are a few more thoughts I've recently had on Doom 3:

Finally made it to hell. The lack of a transition is disappointing. Doom, Doom 2 and Doom 64 all had this very effective aesthetic that slowly introduced you to hell in such a way that the human realm and the demon realm are actually part of the same universe. Here, you see some blood splattered on the walls and some infrequent flesh goo, and suddenly, bam, you're transported to a completely different place. That just isn't satisfying.

Lots of fire, brimstone and lava. It's a very Christian hell for the most part. It looks good, and there are some wonderfully unsettling environments, but where's the articulated demonic architecture? From the looks of it, this is a hell where things are built crudely and haphazardly. I'd really like to see some impressive buildings and temples, something that implies the demons have their own culture (as in the original games), rather than mere dungeons for humans.

Hell has some really nice sound effects and ambient music.

I like that the crushing ceilings have been reinterpreted as some sort of literal hell hammer.

Medikits in hell? It's a good throwback element.

I've started to really notice how little gore there is in this game. When I shoot enemies, I never see any blood spraying or even blood decals. I don't know if it's too subtle or too dark, but I rarely feel like I'm really damaging baddies.

What is up with the baron's fireball attack? Numerous times I've watched it go right past me--not nick me, but straight up go past my body--only to somehow be hit by it anyway, and lose mounds of health, despite being at nearly full armor.

Speaking of armor, who the fuck play tested this and didn't notice that your armor barely deteriorates while your health takes a significant plunge? It's supposed to work the opposite way.


Slow player speed has become painfully apparent. Tried rushing past a baron only to get scratched to death. The ability to doge both enemy attacks and the enemies themselves was such a huge part of the original games.

Jumping sections in hell? Not necessarily a bad idea, but Doom 3 is so dark that it's more frustrating than anything. I've been saving more frequently in hell than in any previous part of the game.

Old Post 09-30-13 21:54 #
GoatLord is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:02. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (4): « 1 2 [3] 4 »  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Newfangled Doom > Doom 3 General > Thoughts on "Doom 3" after much time has passed

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.