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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
Registered: 04-12

idSoftware981 said:
DOOM 4 should have...

Dynamic deaths. I should be able to see decapitation. And many death animations like Brutal DOOM.

That's what I have to say.

But if you guys are going to hate on me... then I feel very sad. And yes I do have a "damn life".

DOOM 4 should NOT have idSoftware981.

And yes, we hate you.

12-27-12 19:14 #

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schwerpunk
Senior Member

Posts: 1228
Registered: 05-12

idSoftware981 is the Peter Molyneux of this forum.

Jokes aside, the guy just likes to dream. I personally don't see the problem, even if he is a little all-over-the-place with his feature ideas. It actually reminds me almost exactly of how I used to talk about Turok 2 back when it was still in development. God, I was so hyped for that game... Anyway, I don't hate you, idSoftware981.

P.S. re: 'Rage with Demons.' I wouldn't actually mind it that much, because Rage was decently fun (IMHO), and the engine is pretty badass. That said, I would prefer a much more 'Doom-y' aesthetic.
Anyway, id's glory days may be behind them, but I don't think I have to worry about them pulling a pallet swap on Doom 4.

Last edited by schwerpunk on 12-28-12 at 00:06

12-28-12 00:00 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
Registered: 04-12

schwerpunk said:
idSoftware981 is the Peter Molyneux of this forum.

Jokes aside, the guy just likes to dream. I personally don't see the problem, even if he is a little all-over-the-place with his feature ideas.

I don't mind people sharing ideas, but he posts the same shit every single time.

You could easily sum this guy's opinion up in one post. Or just like this:

"DOOM 4 should be oldschool, running 200 miles per hour, huhuhuh, heavy metal blaring everywhere, fatalities, blood gore and violence everywhere bwaaaaaaarhrrr nobody likes me!!".

While I'm on the issue; I haven't adressed this yet, but I don't think any game needs fatalities. Its just another form of a quick time event, and I'm sick of that shit. Let game developers come up with REAL gameplay for fuck sake instead of coming up with cheap button presses.

12-28-12 00:07 #

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schwerpunk
Senior Member

Posts: 1228
Registered: 05-12

Regarding fatalities (which I'm 98% sure won't be in the game): I agree that the quick-time-y variety aren't enjoyable past maybe the first couple of applications (even in Brutal Doom, they're optional), but something like being able to blow off individual appendages while running & gunning would be fine with me (to use Brutal as an example again, something like the cruelty bonus you get for wasting ammo on a dying monster).

Although gore is of very minimal importance to me, and I would imagine it being the same with most gamers over 20.

12-28-12 11:40 #

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idSoftware981
Loser

Posts: 95
Registered: 07-12

When I mean fatalities I mean in real-time. None of this quick-time event bullshit you see in modern games. I just want DOOM 4 to disregard all of the "modern" gaming mechanics.

DOOM 4 should have levels that are open, big, and have multiple paths.

DOOM 4 should allow exploration of levels. (None of that RETURN TO COMBAT ZONE shit)

DOOM 4 should have easter eggs (put 4 levels. 2 that are tributes to Wolfenstein 3D and 2 that are tributes to Quake! Also this time DO NOT CENSOR OUT THE SWASTIKAS OR KILLING THE NAZIS! NOTHING WRONG WITH KILLING NAZIS YA KNOW!)

DOOM 4 should have secrets (I should be able to find secrets)

DOOM 4 should have secondary firing modes for your guns.

DOOM 4 should have a really cool story with a really cool ending that keeps us waiting for the next one.

DOOM 4 should be fun, and there should be tons of replay value.

DOOM 4 should have a horde mode and a co-op mode that you can play with your friends.

DOOM 4 should have a multiplayer that's really awesome.

Here are some ideas.

Instead of boring old headshots... what about decapitation instead with a shotgun?! :D

Instead of boring old multiplayer levels....

What about playing on the campaign levels and not only do you have to worry about your enemy... but also you have to worry about the demons!

DOOM 4 should embrace everything that DOOM represents to the DOOM community.

Which reminds me, thank you schwerpunk for not hating me. By the way, cool username I'm of German-Austrian descent!

Hallo, Sie sprechen Deutsch auch? Wie auch immer, ich danke Ihnen f�r nicht hassen mich.

Ich bin wirklich f�r DOOM 4 aufgeregt!

By the way, I was just asking how he is in German and how much I'm excited for DOOM 4.

And agent or DOOMUK you better not say that I'm a Nazi for speaking in German. It's offensive because I'm a Jew and on top of that if you hate me just because you hate me that sucks.

Also, if people can speak Spanish I can speak my German. And yes I speak English perfectly.

Now back on topic....

DOOM 4 should have a long campaign none of these chinsy ass campaigns that only last 15 hours. We need long campaigns that have 192 levels.
Since the levels are big and are long.... heheh! Tons of playtime! :D

12-28-12 14:24 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
Registered: 04-12

idSoftware981 said:
When I mean fatalities I mean in real-time. None of this quick-time event bullshit you see in modern games. I just want DOOM 4 to disregard all of the "modern" gaming mechanics.

See, this is why people call you a troll. If you say Doom 4 should discard all modern game mechanics, then why are you saying Doom 4 should have iron sights, bloom and all that? Those are all modern mechanics.

12-28-12 15:14 #

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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.

Posts: 1870
Registered: 07-02

I've been thinking about it a lot lately and it's clear to me that id should take the following approach:

1. Implement, in a modern fashion, the elements which made the previous "Doom" games great.
2. Learn from past mistakes.
3. Understand the contributions made by the community and implement at least some of those features.

#1 is pretty obvious. Fast player speed, dozens of simultaneous enemies, constant action with very little plot development, straightforward gameplay, linear but exploratory level design, and a unique mix of themes: Militant, industrial, archaic and demonic.

#2 is much more subjective. "Doom 3" is a good game but id dropped the ball more than once, resulting in slow player speed, flimsy weapons, repetitive maps, non-threatening enemies, a deemphasis on Hell and demonic abstraction, forgettable music and cramped spaces. Then there's Rage, which I have not played, so my only comment there is for id to work out the kinks with the texture buffering issues, and to improve the lighting, which in some ways was a downgrade from "Doom 3."

#3. The community has developed a deep love for the PS1 and N64 versions of "Doom." id should take note of the fact that the eerie lighting, dark ambient soundtrack and the transformational sequences ("Doom 64" only) made for a highly immersive experience. Additionally, mods such as "Brutal Doom" are a strong indication of the kind of brutality fans are expecting. The fact that vanilla "Doom" is still used prominently in mapping has made it clear that fans love the bizarre abstract reality imposed by the original engine.

12-28-12 17:48 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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GoatLord said:
I've been thinking about it a lot lately and it's clear to me that id should take the following approach:

1. Implement, in a modern fashion, the elements which made the previous "Doom" games great.
2. Learn from past mistakes.
3. Understand the contributions made by the community and implement at least some of those features.

#1 is pretty obvious. Fast player speed, dozens of simultaneous enemies, constant action with very little plot development, straightforward gameplay, linear but exploratory level design, and a unique mix of themes: Militant, industrial, archaic and demonic.

#2 is much more subjective. "Doom 3" is a good game but id dropped the ball more than once, resulting in slow player speed, flimsy weapons, repetitive maps, non-threatening enemies, a deemphasis on Hell and demonic abstraction, forgettable music and cramped spaces. Then there's Rage, which I have not played, so my only comment there is for id to work out the kinks with the texture buffering issues, and to improve the lighting, which in some ways was a downgrade from "Doom 3."

#3. The community has developed a deep love for the PS1 and N64 versions of "Doom." id should take note of the fact that the eerie lighting, dark ambient soundtrack and the transformational sequences ("Doom 64" only) made for a highly immersive experience. Additionally, mods such as "Brutal Doom" are a strong indication of the kind of brutality fans are expecting. The fact that vanilla "Doom" is still used prominently in mapping has made it clear that fans love the bizarre abstract reality imposed by the original engine.

I'm sorry, but I didn't find Brutal Doom interesting enough to warrant a full length game.

The thing that irks me the most is that on one hand, I like the oldschool Doom gameplay. But on the other hand, if they were to implement these things into a modern game I think alot of these elements would come off as something "just to please the fans", or just out of place.

I think alot of these oldschool gameplay elements that we know and love in the classic Doom games are something that id should respect, but not copy directly. Like having a absurdly high walking speed for instance; there are different ways to create fast paced gameplay, and I've seen Doom 3 mods that demonstrate this.

12-28-12 21:52 #

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idSoftware981
Loser

Posts: 95
Registered: 07-12

I want a mix of music. I don't want ambience blaring throughout the whole game (It's not Resident Evil) and I don't want heavy metal blaring throughout the whole game either (This isn't a SLAYER concert). We need a balance of both this way it's enjoyable for both PC DOOM fans and PS1 DOOM/DOOM 64 fans.

The enemies should scare you. I hated how in DOOM 3 hardly any enemy scared me. They should stay true to the original DOOM monster design and make it 3D and HD and make it scary as fuck.

Weapons should feel powerful. And it should be you slowly progress your way up the weapon ladder (ala Half-Life 1/System Shock 2). Guns should sound powerful but not too powerful. A shotgun should sound VERY powerful. A pistol should sound not too powerful but still like a pistol and NOT like a Nerf Gun (points at DOOM 3). A Machine Gun should sound like a Machine Gun not like an airsoft gun. A Chaingun should sound like an Assault Rifle. A Rocket Launcher like a Rocket Launcher. A Plasma Rifle like a Plasma Rifle. A BFG9000 should sound super powerful.

Also if there's going to be gore. Let there be dynamic gore. I want to be able to shoot off legs, shoot of arms, heads, and much more. And each enemy should have their own unique death animation.

Scary levels and puzzling levels are a must. I loved PC DOOM for some of it's puzzling levels and bizarre levels. And I loved PS1 DOOM/DOOM 64 for it's ambience and scary levels (Cat and Mouse, etc.etc.etc.) Being surprised by a Cyberdemon in Cat and Mouse was scary as hell. I swear....

DOOM 4's boss encounters should challenge you and scare you. The bosses shouldn't look like big ass dinosaurs ripped right out of Ocarina of Time (King Dondogo) and then have these floating Scrags that have lights. I'm sorry but none of the bosses in DOOM 3 scared me.

If your going to make DOOM 4. Make it scary, make it fun, make it exciting, make it very fast-paced, make it what DOOM represents to us the DOOM Community.

Thank you for your time.

12-29-12 16:41 #

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Caffeine Freak
Member

Posts: 530
Registered: 05-10

You've changed your stances on things so many times in this thread, how can anybody take you seriously anymore? Why are you doing this? Why are you wasting your time?

12-29-12 18:12 #

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Grazza
Inventor of "Y Y" to quit

Posts: 11784
Registered: 07-02

idSoftware981, you need to stop posting.

12-29-12 18:36 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
Registered: 04-12

Caffeine Freak said:
You've changed your stances on things so many times in this thread, how can anybody take you seriously anymore? Why are you doing this? Why are you wasting your time?

Maybe he thinks Tim Willits is reading this.

12-29-12 19:29 #

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Eris Falling
Senior Member

Posts: 1445
Registered: 07-12

He's gone! HE'S GONE! Grazza saved us all. But it was so abrupt...Let's give him a final send off:

Now, I think Doom 4 should have iron sights, heavy metal music blasting loud, fatalities, and extreme gore and blood, and dynamic weather. But it should have ambient music and none of these shit modern game mechanics. Also it should have new weapons:

machine pistol
quad shotgun
minigun
grenade launcher
plasma rocket launcher
plasma nuke launcher
bfg10K
black hole generator 1337
super chicken duster V3

and best of all! plasma fists!

--
idsoftware981, for the final time

Do you see that in his last post? 3D enemies? As opposed to 2D then?
I think he was a children's character that went by the name of Little Miss Fickle.

12-29-12 20:00 #

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Touchdown
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 06-05

You guys are also to blame because you all kept replying to him instead of ignoring him.

12-30-12 09:43 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
Registered: 04-12

Touchdown said:
You guys are also to blame because you all kept replying to him instead of ignoring him.

Sure, but thats hard to do when you get an e-mail for every reply in this topic.

12-30-12 11:51 #

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Caffeine Freak
Member

Posts: 530
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Agentbromsnor said:

Maybe he thinks Tim Willits is reading this.

He probably thinks on of us is Tim Willits, hence why he seems to re-formulate his opinions based upon certain things we say.

Touchdown said:
You guys are also to blame because you all kept replying to him instead of ignoring him.

I agree. I was part of this, too. We all were, we knew what we were dealing with and we unleashed the evil, the madness, upon the thread.

DoomUK said:
I'm going to come out and say it:-

To me, Bobby Prince's semi-cheerful style would be no more out of place in a modern shooter than it was in Doom. If it "worked" 20 years ago then it can "work" today. Of course the instruments might sound different but if the music had the same feel then there would be no incongruity as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I also started with PC Doom. I don't mean to bash Prince's work entirely; his sound effects are integral to Doom's iconic status. But I was never a fan of his music MIDIs, long before PSX Doom was even thought of.

Commence flaming. :p

YOU'RE A FUCKING RETAR---, no, I'm kidding.

I disagree though, I think one of the reasons Prince's MIDIs worked was because of the limitations of the engine technology at the time, which put very definitive restrictions on how realistic the gaming world felt.

Classic Doom, despite being set apart from other games of it's era, still has a lot of the odd, somewhat cartoony feel to it that a lot of video games did in the late 80's and early 90's. I really feel that's a good part of the reason Bobby Prince's score works for those games.

12-31-12 06:03 #

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Eris Falling
Senior Member

Posts: 1445
Registered: 07-12

Caffeine Freak said:
I disagree though, I think one of the reasons Prince's MIDIs worked was because of the limitations of the engine technology at the time, which put very definitive restrictions on how realistic the gaming world felt.

I'm sort of neutral. While I think Hodges' soundtrack was more appropriate than Prince's, the latter's music is still pretty cool.

Besides, without Prince's soundtrack, there would be no music for those awesome remakes

Last edited by Eris Falling on 12-31-12 at 13:38

12-31-12 13:33 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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Caffeine Freak said:

I disagree though, I think one of the reasons Prince's MIDIs worked was because of the limitations of the engine technology at the time, which put very definitive restrictions on how realistic the gaming world felt.

Classic Doom, despite being set apart from other games of it's era, still has a lot of the odd, somewhat cartoony feel to it that a lot of video games did in the late 80's and early 90's. I really feel that's a good part of the reason Bobby Prince's score works for those games.

Was Doom really cartoony then to you? If so, then I apparently missed something. I know there's a lot of nostalgia that goes with oldschool midi-songs like Prince's, but I never felt that it truly connected to the game.

For example, the song for level two in Doom 2 has a part with African drums in it, and a part that sounds like something out of a jazz caf�. There's no denying the quality of the songs themselves, but I think it was in no way a proper soundtrack for the game that id intended to make.

I don't blame them though, Prince is a good composer and he served id well in the games previous to Doom. But like I said, he should stick to composing for kids games.

01-01-13 22:19 #

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Avoozl
Indecisive

Posts: 1046
Registered: 06-09

Agentbromsnor said:
For example, the song for level two in Doom 2 has a part with African drums in it, and a part that sounds like something out of a jazz caf�.

I always thought d_runnin from MAP01 sounded like music from a food parlour but not the beginning part though.

01-03-13 07:04 #

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doom_is_great
Mini-Member

Posts: 53
Registered: 04-12

The Doom 64 music was pretty good at making the game seem really moody and dark. I also think the way the music that was done in the first FEAR was pretty good too. During the slow paced parts, the music was slow and moody. During the fast paced parts, the music became more intense.

01-03-13 21:36 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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Jason said:
I always thought d_runnin from MAP01 sounded like music from a food parlour but not the beginning part though.

Hahaha! That kinda fits the description too.

01-04-13 04:25 #

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macsmol
Newbie

Posts: 6
Registered: 12-12

Hi everybody!
I just created account here with hopes that someone at id takes suggestions from this thread into consideration. :)
For me Doom 4 should come back to it's origins and focus on shooting. Sounds obvious but I have few specific things in mind.

1. Skip all the unnecessary elements that do not contribute to shooting. This includes mostly RPG stuff:
1.1. Accepting quests is silly (you have to accept them so move the plot so what's the point of pressing accept button),
1.2 Crafting, shopping (I think it's just a way to make gameplay last longer - but not necessarily more fun). Player could find items ready made as it used to be in Duke Nukem 3d for example.
1.3 Excessive reading like PDA's in D3 - for most of the time I was just scanning them for access codes. They didn't contribute anything more as the plot was completely linear. If I want to enjoy reading (plot) I play Fallout. Half-Life 2 had good narration - all the plot was conveyed on the go by the NPCs and there was no reading.
1.4. Card games, mini games (as in Rage) - They are OK but I think that time spent creating them could be spent on some other stuff.

2. Give us more of good, old style gameplay!
2.1. Mooore shooting! Specifically I would love to see dozens of monsters rushing at player as once (promised by the authors :D)
2.2 Give up player's health regeneration in favour of medikits lying around. I liked that feeling in HalfLife 1 & 2 when I was low on health and had to proceed very cautiously until I found next medikit. It gave me that extra thrill of being cornered. In modern games you can just hide and come back unharmed (or even use the defibrillator - another mini game). Regeneration and defibrillator made Rage way too easy. Adding 'ultra nightmare' difficulty in Rage: Scorchers was not the way to go - still for most of the time the game was supereasy except for few frustrating arenas (i.e mutant bash episode 2).

3 More destructible/interactive environments. Shotgun in Rage had really great sound but the impression of power weakend because it wouldn't cause any destruction of the evironment. In some interview John Carmack admitted that the world gives the feeling of being an empty shell. I'm guessing that's the constraint of the idTech5 engine (prerendered shades on the terrain) so it would be probably quite difficult to implement. But I think that at least adding more particle effects (and maybe some tesselated bulletholes) would do the job (like FEAR had or Crysis). If we could have scripted scenes of MASSIVE destruction as in Crysis 2 I would be more than happy.

What do you think of these suggestions?

01-04-13 12:42 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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I think your suggestions are absolutely nothing new to this topic.

Also, destructable envirement? Come on, this is Doom, not Red Faction. Save the gimmicks for some other franchise.

01-06-13 03:12 #

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Touchdown
Junior Member

Posts: 145
Registered: 06-05

If there are light RPG elements (from the lack of better description), such as buying / crafting I wouldn't be too terribly disappointed (though I think these fit better in the RAGE universe). Same for minigames, I'm fine with it if there's some optional stuff to do.

I thought health regen worked quite well in RAGE (because it's not rapid and you still have to use medikits), as well as defibs (it's a second chance if you die but it's not spammable because it has to recharge).

As for destructible environments, I doubt anything like that will be implemented. But some form of destruction, like destructible objects or "chipping" certain parts of the scenery upon inflicting damage would only make the gameworld more believable.

01-06-13 09:17 #

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DoomUK
Forum Spammer

Posts: 3656
Registered: 04-04

Agentbromsnor said:
I think your suggestions are absolutely nothing new to this topic.

Also, destructable envirement? Come on, this is Doom, not Red Faction. Save the gimmicks for some other franchise.

My money's on macsmol being idSoftware981's sock puppet.

Far too much of a coincidence that he gets losered and within a couple of days some other guy registers, goes straight to this thread and makes a list like that. He's not smart enough to adjust the tone of his prose enough to conceal his identity.

01-07-13 09:13 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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DoomUK said:

My money's on macsmol being idSoftware981's sock puppet.

Far too much of a coincidence that he gets losered and within a couple of days some other guy registers, goes straight to this thread and makes a list like that. He's not smart enough to adjust the tone of his prose enough to conceal his identity.

Good point. Maybe a mod can do a IP check?

01-07-13 11:54 #

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macsmol
Newbie

Posts: 6
Registered: 12-12

Agentbromsnor said:
I think your suggestions are absolutely nothing new to this topic.

Well some are.

Agentbromsnor said:
Also, destructable envirement? Come on, this is Doom, not Red Faction. Save the gimmicks for some other franchise.

I don't require Red Faction's flexibility. But interation at level like Duke Nukem 3d, Max Payne series. Rage is a good game but it really feels merely like a beautiful postcard - it looks beautiful but environment is completely static (except windmills, dirt flying around). As i said adding more particle effects could be enough to create nice illusion of 'liveness'. Adding more interactive, destructible items to the world should help even more.

Also here some news about Doom 4 you might have not heard about :
http://www.videogamer.com/news/is_d...g_next-gen.html
..Interestingly Brians twitter account seems to be closed since that time.

01-07-13 13:45 #

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Agentbromsnor
Member

Posts: 371
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I think the worst arguments for Doom 4 features are the ones that assume that Doom is only about slaughtermaps. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be action, there should be plenty of action in a Doom game, just not mindless slaughterlevels that just take long to finish. This is what I would call artificial difficulty and its also why I'm not a big fan of slaughtermaps in classic Doom. Just add a ton of enemies and have half of them spawn in later. It seems a lot like levelfiller to me.

01-10-13 20:10 #

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DooM_RO
Member

Posts: 609
Registered: 02-11

Agentbromsnor said:
I think the worst arguments for Doom 4 features are the ones that assume that Doom is only about slaughtermaps. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be action, there should be plenty of action in a Doom game, just not mindless slaughterlevels that just take long to finish. This is what I would call artificial difficulty and its also why I'm not a big fan of slaughtermaps in classic Doom. Just add a ton of enemies and have half of them spawn in later. It seems a lot like levelfiller to me.

I HATE slaughtermaps not because of the gameplay but because of how much it fucking distorts what Doom is all about. It is not about killing 10 demons at a time with a BFG, it is more about facing 10 well paced guys(at most) in one room. I also think slaughtermaps are (partly) to blame why people think Doom 3 sucked.

01-11-13 08:17 #

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Avoozl
Indecisive

Posts: 1046
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It would be nice to see chuncks of flesh blown out of demons via mainly shotgun fire upon death, I don't mean like SoF2 where you literally blow chunks out of the head but like Max Payne 3 where it shows flesh sticking out giving the illusion you have blown chuncks out of the enemy.

01-11-13 12:46 #

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