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Captain Red
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I want to be late to the party. No long train rides, no wondering through labs blabbing at NPCs about teleport technology or the war ageist the demons; the time between hitting new game and when I watch the first zombie expire from bullet wounds inflicted from my service pistol should be measured in seconds, including loading time. A skippable intro is fine, but I want to start in a demon infested Space station/Military base/ city/kitten orphanage with the ability to monster stomping right from the word go.

No forced tutorial. No “Push SPACE to jump” prompts please. You either teach us Mega Man style or have an optional tutorial selectable from the main menu and not some in game NPC asking you if you need a refresher course or whatever. in fact...

No NPCs. I don't want a squad, I don't want some asshole telling me what to do through a headset. Maybe seeing the odd shoot out in the distance would be ok, but one thing I like about doom is the crushing loneliness of it all. It's all down to you and only you (and possibly a co-op buddy if that's your bag). NO NPCS.

Wood paneling on my shotgun. Because it's doom. Shut up.

Old Post 01-21-13 07:11 #
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Clusterone666
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Wow it's been a while since i've posted on here. o.o
I honestly think Doom 4 should either be one of two things, revamp of Doom 2, or they make it something completely different.
If it is a revamp.
- Have a good amount of easter eggs regarding Doom 2.
- Have all the old weapons and stick to the old weapons, but of course with reloading, and iron sights with all that normal next gen stuff :P
- Have it be level base and stick to the concept of Doom 2 as much as possible, little story, more based on gameplay, of course have everything upped to today's standards, graphics wise.
- Have massive, city oriented levels that span extremely wide, while having hard, intense kill, strafe, kill, repeat battles.
- Have the original enemies, and original secret levels.
- include some new things like maybe a couple new enemies, but don't make the bosses like the cyberdemon in Doom 3, make them killable with all guns, just all guns do certain damage.
-BFG back :D and not the BFG from Doom 3 >.>
So ya that's all I can think of right now, that's what I want anyways, may not be what other people want, but that would be nice. :) If not i'm still excited to see what comes of it.
ALTHOUGH... with Bethesda now owning ID (and everything else on the planet lol) I REALLY hope they don't have some RPG system in it like Fallout or Skyrim (Yes I know they originally did, but there doing that for all there games, I love RPG FPS's but Doom has never been that.)
So ya :)
And what's up with that IDSoftware guy? o.o does he not realize he's repeating himself? :o
Edit: Oh I've been using this site since 2005, just something happened to my profile and for some reason I had to re-activate it o.o

Old Post 01-21-13 07:30 #
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DooM_RO
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Captain Red said:
I want to be late to the party. No long train rides, no wondering through labs blabbing at NPCs about teleport technology or the war ageist the demons; the time between hitting new game and when I watch the first zombie expire from bullet wounds inflicted from my service pistol should be measured in seconds, including loading time. A skippable intro is fine, but I want to start in a demon infested Space station/Military base/ city/kitten orphanage with the ability to monster stomping right from the word go.

No forced tutorial. No “Push SPACE to jump” prompts please. You either teach us Mega Man style or have an optional tutorial selectable from the main menu and not some in game NPC asking you if you need a refresher course or whatever. in fact...

No NPCs. I don't want a squad, I don't want some asshole telling me what to do through a headset. Maybe seeing the odd shoot out in the distance would be ok, but one thing I like about doom is the crushing loneliness of it all. It's all down to you and only you (and possibly a co-op buddy if that's your bag). NO NPCS.

Wood paneling on my shotgun. Because it's doom. Shut up.



As I said before, in a game like Doom any kind of story (especially one that tries to be overly philosophical) could easily turn out to be obnoxious.

HOWEVER, good storytelling is another thing entirely. PDAs and secrets are an excellent tool for this because they are optional, they do not detract you from the gameplay and you can get as much story as you want. There could be interesting subplots in PDAs (which Doom 3 didn't have) about the lives of UAC employees, life on earth etc.. I agree about the megaman style tutorial.

Visual storytelling like in Alien or System Shock 2 (both major influences on Doom 3) would also be very fitting especially since the abstract levels in Doom tend tell a story. Just check out maps like E2M7 or E3M4 to see what I'm talking about.

Regarding your last comment, expecting Doom 4 to be EXACTLY like the classic Doom will lead only to dissapointment. Just look at Doom 3 maps that are carbon copies of the originals, they look VERY weird and not in a good way.

They can still retain the original feel of the games while making the game look completely new and they have already done that in a few levels from Doom 3.

For instance, the Central Processing level is a reimagination of the original (if you look closely) and while it looks different, it also uses 4 or 5 textures from the original Doom and also preserves the layout. Two more examples would be the excellent Hell maps from the BFG edition that feel very much like modern Doom maps. They feel new but so familiar at the same time and this is the kind of feeling Doom 4 should give. New but familiar at the same time.

Old Post 01-21-13 07:40 #
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Sahkan
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Clusterone666 said:
Wow it's been a while since i've posted on here. o.o
I honestly think Doom 4 should either be one of two things, revamp of Doom 2, or they make it something completely different.
If it is a revamp.
- Have a good amount of easter eggs regarding Doom 2.
- Have all the old weapons and stick to the old weapons, but of course with reloading, and iron sights with all that normal next gen stuff :P
- Have it be level base and stick to the concept of Doom 2 as much as possible, little story, more based on gameplay, of course have everything upped to today's standards, graphics wise.
- Have massive, city oriented levels that span extremely wide, while having hard, intense kill, strafe, kill, repeat battles.
- Have the original enemies, and original secret levels.
- include some new things like maybe a couple new enemies, but don't make the bosses like the cyberdemon in Doom 3, make them killable with all guns, just all guns do certain damage.
-BFG back :D and not the BFG from Doom 3 >.>


Me Want !!!

Old Post 01-21-13 08:47 #
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Clusterone666
Green Marine


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Sahkan said:

Me Want !!!


Right? :D
If they make it that way I would be really happy. :)

Old Post 01-21-13 08:49 #
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Eris Falling
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Clusterone666 said:
(list)


I may have said this before, but I wouldn't mind seeing an Icon of Sin, with the head of Tim Willit's on the inside...

I personally didn't have a problem with the BFG in Doom 3, although of course, the original was always superior.
Obviously the original enemies are a must (Arachnotron + Mastermind please!), but I think incorporating some of Doom 3's own monsters would be an idea. Or classic doom monsters + new demons.

And let's not have grenades this time..I never used them..

Old Post 01-21-13 08:55 #
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bcwood16
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Eris Falling said:

And let's not have grenades this time..I never used them..



I dont know, I have mixed feelings about this.

I did indeed use them in Doom3, but maybe more for fun, rather then actually needing them.
I had a mod that made them less 'bouncy' so they simply dropped to the floor and rolled away towards the monster (well it had a bit of throw to it). I had the shortcut key linked to one of mouse buttons, for very quick access. Thats the key I think, by the time you find it, its too late.

I guess it would be the same if grenades were in Original Doom, you dont need them, but I must admit rolling them into a small room full of imps and zombies, then watching them explode all over the walls would be amusing!

Old Post 01-21-13 12:57 #
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DooM_RO
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bcwood16 said:


I dont know, I have mixed feelings about this.

I did indeed use them in Doom3, but maybe more for fun, rather then actually needing them.
I had a mod that made them less 'bouncy' so they simply dropped to the floor and rolled away towards the monster (well it had a bit of throw to it). I had the shortcut key linked to one of mouse buttons, for very quick access. Thats the key I think, by the time you find it, its too late.

I guess it would be the same if grenades were in Original Doom, you dont need them, but I must admit rolling them into a small room full of imps and zombies, then watching them explode all over the walls would be amusing!



They were very tedious to use. There should have been a quick throw button. Thankfully this was resolved in RAGE.

Old Post 01-21-13 15:35 #
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Eris Falling
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bcwood16 said:

I had a mod that made them less 'bouncy' so they simply dropped to the floor and rolled away towards the monster (well it had a bit of throw to it).



Personally if I was modding grenades, I'd make them MORE bouncy, for the fun of it.
Only time I've enjoyed using grenades is using the Rubber Grenades cheat in Medal of Honour: Frontline

Old Post 01-21-13 15:56 #
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mrthejoshmon
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IMO doom 4 needs one thing...
co-op, don't care if it sucks, I just love co-op!

Old Post 01-21-13 20:53 #
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Avoozl
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Captain Red said:
Wood paneling on my shotgun. Because it's doom. Shut up.
I don't think the wood on guns is refered to as "paneling", also they didn't just randomly pick a gun with wood on it for the sake of it, they just picked it because it was a good old fashioned gun dispite the fact they could only get their hands on a toy variation of it, but yes a old fasioned shotgun like a winchester with wood and metal rather than just metal would be great and same goes for the supershotgun, the supershotgun obviously should be the doubleshot kind rather than the one shot at a time kind which I loathe in modern shooters because it's called "super" rather than "double barreled" for that reason.

Last edited by Avoozl on 01-22-13 at 00:48

Old Post 01-22-13 00:42 #
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D00mfan
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mrthejoshmon said:
IMO doom 4 needs one thing...
co-op, don't care if it sucks, I just love co-op!



Definitely this.

-A full sized Icon of Sin, apparently it has a body, so it would be interesting to see how they would do that in a level.

-Put an assault rifle in there, the standard weapon for a marine today is a assault rifle not a machine gun.

-Huge levels like in Doom 2.

-Redesign some of the monsters to look more like demons from hell , some of them look like generic mutants.

-More Chainsaw zombies, there's wasn't many of them in Doom 3.

-Maybe they could do a spec-ops version of the Z-secs, which use more advanced tactics and weapons like plasma rifles.

-If this is set on earth, we could have different types of zombies to fight with different levels of difficulty , example: police zombies with pistols and shotguns, SWAT zombies with assault rifles, machine guns and shotguns, ARMY zombies with assault rifles, machine guns,shotguns, rocket launchers and miniguns.

-Bring back the Spider Master Mind.

Old Post 01-22-13 13:47 #
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mrthejoshmon
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D00mfan said:


Definitely this.

-A full sized Icon of Sin, apparently it has a body, so it would be interesting to see how they would do that in a level.

-Put an assault rifle in there, the standard weapon for a marine today is a assault rifle not a machine gun.

-Huge levels like in Doom 2.

-Redesign some of the monsters to look more like demons from hell , some of them look like generic mutants.

-More Chainsaw zombies, there's wasn't many of them in Doom 3.

-Maybe they could do a spec-ops version of the Z-secs, which use more advanced tactics and weapons like plasma rifles.

-If this is set on earth, we could have different types of zombies to fight with different levels of difficulty , example: police zombies with pistols and shotguns, SWAT zombies with assault rifles, machine guns and shotguns, ARMY zombies with assault rifles, machine guns,shotguns, rocket launchers and miniguns.

-Bring back the Spider Master Mind.


this idea is actually brilliant! it would also fit in with the co-op but besides that, it would make it a whole lot better!

Old Post 01-22-13 16:41 #
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Captain Red
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DooM_RO said:


As I said before, in a game like Doom any kind of story (especially one that tries to be overly philosophical) could easily turn out to be obnoxious.

HOWEVER, good storytelling is another thing entirely. PDAs and secrets are an excellent tool for this because they are optional, they do not detract you from the gameplay and you can get as much story as you want. There could be interesting subplots in PDAs (which Doom 3 didn't have) about the lives of UAC employees, life on earth etc.. I agree about the megaman style tutorial.

Visual storytelling like in Alien or System Shock 2 (both major influences on Doom 3) would also be very fitting especially since the abstract levels in Doom tend tell a story. Just check out maps like E2M7 or E3M4 to see what I'm talking about.

Regarding your last comment, expecting Doom 4 to be EXACTLY like the classic Doom will lead only to dissapointment. Just look at Doom 3 maps that are carbon copies of the originals, they look VERY weird and not in a good way.

They can still retain the original feel of the games while making the game look completely new and they have already done that in a few levels from Doom 3.

For instance, the Central Processing level is a reimagination of the original (if you look closely) and while it looks different, it also uses 4 or 5 textures from the original Doom and also preserves the layout. Two more examples would be the excellent Hell maps from the BFG edition that feel very much like modern Doom maps. They feel new but so familiar at the same time and this is the kind of feeling Doom 4 should give. New but familiar at the same time.


Eh as much as I'd love to see doom's monster sprites come alive with id tech 5 I'm not really holding my breath for a shot for shot remake.

Honestly, if Doom 4 was basically Rage's shooting with Doom's magical array of beasties and some decent level design I'd be pretty happy. (Just Rages shooting mind you. leave the Driving and RPG-lite stuff at the door).

Old Post 01-23-13 07:10 #
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bcwood16
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D00mfan said:


-Maybe they could do a spec-ops version of the Z-secs, which use more advanced tactics and weapons like plasma rifles.

-If this is set on earth, we could have different types of zombies to fight with different levels of difficulty , example: police zombies with pistols and shotguns, SWAT zombies with assault rifles, machine guns and shotguns, ARMY zombies with assault rifles, machine guns,shotguns, rocket launchers and miniguns.



Im not sure if these points would turn doom into a boring Zombie shooter....Zombie Island etc?

I think Zombies are Zombies, they should pretty much react the same way, just because they were former special ops, I dont think they should have the ability to run fast, do rolling stunts, have deadly accuracy etc. I think they should all be dumb moving, slow idiots, but happen to use what ever gun they had on them when they turned, such as chainguns, pistols and Shotguns etc. (Not saying that what you said, but gave me that impression).

Old Post 01-23-13 10:00 #
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macsmol
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I've just read this.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/9...d-how-to-fix-it
I couldn't agree more with whats written there (except maybe combat model - I like it simple). I hope guys at id will consider it before shipping Doom 4.

Old Post 01-23-13 13:11 #
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Caffeine Freak
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I can't say anything in that article was something I hadn't already thought of, but that article was also written only about a week after Rage's release, so I have the benefit of having had much more time to think about it. And I agree with most of it. The only nitpick I have right off the bat is the fact that the author took issue with the pile of corpses in the well under Wellspring, saying it made no sense (his implication being that the townspeople placed them there) when it was pretty clear that they had been stacked there by the bandits, not the people of Wellspring.

Other than that small issue, I agree with pretty much everything.

Old Post 01-25-13 01:11 #
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Krispy
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Yeah, I keep waiting in DOOM 3 or Rage for the creepy pulsing slime tube artery things that grow everywhere to serve some purpose, but they never do.

Old Post 01-25-13 02:03 #
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DoomUK
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Captain Red said:
Honestly, if Doom 4 was basically Rage's shooting with Doom's magical array of beasties and some decent level design I'd be pretty happy. (Just Rages shooting mind you. leave the Driving and RPG-lite stuff at the door).

Realistically, this is the best we can hope for.

As far as I'm concerned, id haven't made a predominantly good game since Quake III Arena (not counting Quake Live). Doom 3 and Rage were both disappointments, each of them having one redeeming quality respectively; Doom 3 had great atmosphere and visuals for it's time*, Rage had great combat. If these saving graces could be combined into one game, running on a slightly updated or refined version of idtech 5 which doesn't suffer from horrible visual hiccups and inconsistencies, I'll be content.

I'd like to have something as revolutionary as that game they released in 1993, yet one which doesn't forgo all of the qualities that made Doom great, but it's just not going to happen.


*yes, technically that's two qualities, but you know what I mean ;)

Old Post 01-25-13 08:44 #
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Agentbromsnor
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Quake 3 Arena to me was the turning point of ID's games. They were never good storytellers, but the whole e-sports approach to games never really appealed to me at all. So in that regard, I do think Rage was a step forwards again. Even though Rage had pretty bad storytelling, its still better than no story at all I suppose.

Old Post 01-25-13 09:08 #
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DooM_RO
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Captain Red said:

Eh as much as I'd love to see doom's monster sprites come alive with id tech 5 I'm not really holding my breath for a shot for shot remake.

Honestly, if Doom 4 was basically Rage's shooting with Doom's magical array of beasties and some decent level design I'd be pretty happy. (Just Rages shooting mind you. leave the Driving and RPG-lite stuff at the door).



The fact that they included racing and RPG mechanics indicates that Id does not consider CoD-like design to be their future and I am extremely happy about that. The fact that they don't rush their games also garners respect, rarely does a developer still spend 4 years on a game. Of course this is not enough but it is clear that they DO love what they do.

Old Post 01-25-13 14:23 #
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Caffeine Freak
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DoomUK said

I'd like to have something as revolutionary as that game they released in 1993, yet one which doesn't forgo all of the qualities that made Doom great, but it's just not going to happen. [/B]


Doom was revolutionary because it kick-started many of the staples of the FPS genre that still define it today. Any game that had as much of an impact as Doom would have to completely redefine the industry all over again, and that game just isn't likely to appear any time soon, not from id or any other developer.

On another note, I'm impatient as hell to see Doom 4, but I also think the fact that id have learned not to repeatedly showcase a game years before it's release shows that they're willing to learn from past mistakes. I just hope that also carries over into their game design as well, especially since Carmack acknowledged a lot of Rage's most glaring errors at Quakecon 2012.

But only time will tell. I'm really starting to suspect that they're aiming for the next generation of consoles for Doom 4.

Old Post 01-25-13 17:31 #
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Agentbromsnor
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Caffeine Freak said:


But only time will tell. I'm really starting to suspect that they're aiming for the next generation of consoles for Doom 4.



And why is that a problem exactly?

Old Post 01-25-13 17:37 #
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Caffeine Freak
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Agentbromsnor said:


And why is that a problem exactly?



It isn't a problem (other than it meaning a longer wait). I wasn't complaining, I was saying it matter-of-factly.

Old Post 01-25-13 19:04 #
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Agentbromsnor
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Caffeine Freak said:


It isn't a problem (other than it meaning a longer wait). I wasn't complaining, I was saying it matter-of-factly.



Okay, I misunderstood then.

Old Post 01-25-13 20:06 #
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doom_is_great
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bcwood16 said:


Im not sure if these points would turn doom into a boring Zombie shooter....Zombie Island etc?

I think Zombies are Zombies, they should pretty much react the same way, just because they were former special ops, I dont think they should have the ability to run fast, do rolling stunts, have deadly accuracy etc. I think they should all be dumb moving, slow idiots, but happen to use what ever gun they had on them when they turned, such as chainguns, pistols and Shotguns etc. (Not saying that what you said, but gave me that impression).



I disagree. You can have slow dumb moving zombies but some smart, advanced soldier like zombies would be a welcome addition. It would add variety to the monster AI. You can have animal like demons that charge at you blindly, you can you have slow frankenstein like zombies, and you can some smart, tactical former soldier zombies. I don't want all the monsters to be dumb. That would be boring.

One thing I would like to see in terms of AI is infighting! It would be sweet to make the monsters infight and kill each other. It would also be an awesome tactic to use to get out of tricky situations.

Old Post 01-26-13 03:47 #
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DoomUK
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Caffeine Freak said:
I just hope that also carries over into their game design as well, especially since Carmack acknowledged a lot of Rage's most glaring errors at Quakecon 2012.

I'd rather hear admissions like that from Tim Willits, or even lower-ranking employees at id who have something to do with the "game" part of their games.

Masters of Doom painted Carmack as a guy who is largely indifferent to what kind of game his technology is used for. He's probably changed over the past 20 years, and he seems less detached from the non-technical aspects of things in his more recent Quakecon speeches, but I imagine id Software board meetings consisting of his opinions on gameplay being superseded by whatever Willits thinks, with Carmack going along with them almost in acquiescence - his reasoning being "Doom 3 and Rage sold pretty well, so something is being done right".

Old Post 01-26-13 08:43 #
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Caffeine Freak
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DoomUK said:

I'd rather hear admissions like that from Tim Willits, or even lower-ranking employees at id who have something to do with the "game" part of their games.



Carmack was speaking on behalf of id, though. It wasn't just him saying 'well, this is what I personally think'.


DoomUK said:

Masters of Doom painted Carmack as a guy who is largely indifferent to what kind of game his technology is used for.



I'm really not sure what gives you that impression. The idea for Doom (hell versus technology, marines versus demons) was Carmack's, as was the idea for Quake III Arena revolving entirely around deathmatch. Doom 3 was done at Carmack's behest as well as other key figures at id, as was the idea for Rage's post-apocalyptic wastelands and how they would incorporate mega-texture tech. Carmack has always played a key part in the decision-making process of what type of games they will make, even if he isn't deeply involved in the creative side.

Old Post 01-26-13 18:04 #
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LANEGRACABRA
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man, I keep seeing dreams almost every night that DOOM 4 is revealed and I watch gameplay footage/play it myself...

Old Post 01-26-13 21:40 #
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Avoozl
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bcwood16 said:
I think Zombies are Zombies, they should pretty much react the same way, just because they were former special ops, I dont think they should have the ability to run fast, do rolling stunts, have deadly accuracy etc.
But if they are demonicly possessed then they can still do everything they could before, Doom's so called zombiemen are actually possessed humans officially called "Former Humans" and were zsecs in Doom 3, merely humans demonicly possessed while they were still alive rather than dead people rising from the grave (where ever they last died) like the zombies introduced in Doom 3, I think the Doom universe treats possessed people and zombies differenly from eachother.

Old Post 01-29-13 02:30 #
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