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DooM_RO
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Megamur said:

I absolutely am. What direction are you hoping they'll take that's neither Doom nor CoD?




Id did their best work when they were a small dev team, so I'd still like to see something like this attempted. And Id really hasn't been graphically innovative for the last decade anyway, and haven't had innovative gameplay since 1993 (and that's only because they included Deathmatch).

And really, the very best Doom games that have been released since the mid-90's have all been indie titles, specifically free mods. They've created some amazing things with absolutely no budget at all.



Doom 3 was made by under 30 people.

The player wads do not count. There is a reason why AAA games are made by 100 people.

I'm starting to think that Doom 4 should be an AA title, I have been playing Thief and there is something I have noticed. The visuals are incredibly detailed and well made, they even evoke the atmosphere of the originals most of the times however, this comes with noticeable drawbacks.

1. They take a long time to make.

2. The more stuff you put in, the harder it is to find relevant objects. I got lost even in the simplest parts of the level. This also happened in Doom 3 way back although to a much lesser extent.

3. It costs a fuckton, which takes away from the other, more important parts of the game.

4. If you screw the level design, it will take a lot longer to correct it.

I am not saying that visuals are not important, for me they are crucial but functionality should never be sacrificed for aesthetics. The aesthetics should complement the gameplay.

Therefore, I think the visuals should not be absolute detail porn. More detail does not necessarily equate better visuals, I think we've seen this plenty of times in WADs. It should be detailed just as much as needs without sacrificing quality.

Old Post 02-27-14 14:55 #
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Shaviro
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Megamur said:
I absolutely am. What direction are you hoping they'll take that's neither Doom nor CoD?


What I'm hoping (or what I'd do), but not expecting, is something more or less like this: On the larger scale I would center the story around the invasion, showing the world during AND pre event. The player would go through the world experiencing first hand what it means when civilization and society starts to crumble. The main goal would be less "stopping the invasion" and more about surviving the initial invasion/helping out whatever people is close/relevant to the player. There would of course be an endgame, but it wouldn't be shutting down the gate (or whatever).

Keep the cutscenes to a minimum. Show and progress the story through first person view as much as possible and don't take away the controls (stupid quicktime events etc.) without a damn good reason. As for how the action would play out, I'd go for a semi-open world where you have sharply defined objectives, but loosely defined routes. The missions themselves would be long instead of short errand boy jobs. Every larger objective should progress the story and this could be underlined by opening up new areas for the player - perhaps moving a mobile base. That said, the player would not be some army guy fighting with the military. Those guys pulled out long ago.

Ideally there would be overarching chapters with different themes and visuals. It could be City/urban -> base/nature?/twisted areas -> hell -> resolution(end). The game would of course play a little differently in hell than in tight office buildings.

It's not that different from what many studios have attempted, but some of them have been *almost* right in my opinion. My main complaint about them is that the missions are a little too short and often take place in unspectacular locations that don't really differ much in nature from just walking around.

Old Post 02-27-14 14:55 #
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doom_is_great
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Shaviro said:


What I'm hoping (or what I'd do), but not expecting, is something more or less like this: On the larger scale I would center the story around the invasion, showing the world during AND pre event. The player would go through the world experiencing first hand what it means when civilization and society starts to crumble. The main goal would be less "stopping the invasion" and more about surviving the initial invasion/helping out whatever people is close/relevant to the player. There would of course be an endgame, but it wouldn't be shutting down the gate (or whatever).

Keep the cutscenes to a minimum. Show and progress the story through first person view as much as possible and don't take away the controls (stupid quicktime events etc.) without a damn good reason. As for how the action would play out, I'd go for a semi-open world where you have sharply defined objectives, but loosely defined routes. The missions themselves would be long instead of short errand boy jobs. Every larger objective should progress the story and this could be underlined by opening up new areas for the player - perhaps moving a mobile base. That said, the player would not be some army guy fighting with the military. Those guys pulled out long ago.

Ideally there would be overarching chapters with different themes and visuals. It could be City/urban -> base/nature?/twisted areas -> hell -> resolution(end). The game would of course play a little differently in hell than in tight office buildings.

It's not that different from what many studios have attempted, but some of them have been *almost* right in my opinion. My main complaint about them is that the missions are a little too short and often take place in unspectacular locations that don't really differ much in nature from just walking around.



Those are some pretty cool ideas. However, I would still have the player be related to the military somehow. He doesn't have to be active duty. He could be a veteran or someone who was dishonorably discharged for not following orders to fire upon civilians and then assaulting the superior officer who gave the order. I mean, the player is going to be using lots of weapons and explosives in order to fight the demons and zombies. If he's some average joe schmoe, how would he know how to use all those weapons? It just wouldn't be as believable for me.

Old Post 02-27-14 20:01 #
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Doominator2
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An Icon of Sin should also be a mid game boss.

Old Post 02-27-14 22:02 #
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Doomguy777
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DooM_RO said:


Sounds like a shitty indie title.



Now that I think about it... it does. Maybe DOOM should go into the late 90's early 2000's gameplay. It shouldn't be DOOM 3. It should be action-packed like the originals. It should have atmosphere and an awesome heavy metal/ambience soundtrack. It should have a story that's more gripping than DOOM 3. It should be like DOOM 3: Phobos. Except, it should have lots and lots of Hell in the game (see Abandon All Hope In Hell for example of what I want to see from DOOM 4.) It should be scary, fast-paced, have heavy metal and ambience, a good story (not generic) and it should be a modern reimagining of DOOM the same way that Shadow Warrior was a good modern reimagining of Shadow Warrior (1997).

Last edited by Doomguy777 on 03-01-14 at 18:31

Old Post 03-01-14 18:24 #
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DooM_RO
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You can't have scary and heavy metal at the same time.

When will people understand, Doom is a game of powerful constrasts, no vision of the game in true or fales, they are all true to a certain degree.

One moment you are in a dark, eerie and cramped room with monster closets, the next you are in a bright, open area. One moment you hear heavy metal midis, the next creepy and mysterious tracks, one moment you are in an Alienesque base, the next you are in the downright weird Doom 2, one moment you fight hordes of monsters, the next just a few imps.

Doom is HARDLY just heavy metal and 30 monsters on the screen. Of course, it is a very important part of the game but there are other parts of it too.

As for gameplay, even Doom has to evolve, but in a way that makes sense for the franchise, I've already laid out my ideas for themed episodes that introduce weapons based on those themes, with gameplay twists on the Doom formula every episode.

People keep talking about Painkiller and Serious Sam as "perfect" references for a modern Doom sequel, but the fact is that Doom has far more in common with 2d sidescrollers only in 3d.

Secret hunting, searching for keys, backtracking, emphasis on maneuverability are all taken from 2d sidescrollers such as Commander Keen and even Mario but in 3D and with demons from hell.

Other things they could do is add vehicles. Now I know what you're thinking but you don't hate vehicles just because they are vehicles, you hate them because vehicles are often just glorified turret sections.

One of the very best vehicles in gaming is, I believe Yoshi. Why?

Well let's see.

You are NOT railroaded into riding him, the levels are perfectly navigable without him.

He has interesting gameplay mechanics such as swallowing enemies, which can be thrown back, after he eats enough, he lays an egg with a random powerup.

Moreover, he also gives you extra possibilities of exploring the levels with his light flying abilities.

In short, the mechanics in sidescrollers like Mario are far more complex that what you see in your average MMS, every time a modern game makes something similar to Yoshi, it is considered revolutionary, when mario already did it before.

Now imagine that instead of a cute dinosaur you get a vehicle with light hovering capabilities that provides extra ways to find secrets, has a powerful cannon that destroys demons but has limited ammo, and you have to manage fuel/ammo. The vehicle is simply just another way of advancing/exploring the level, the game does not railroad you into using it.

I believe that after a certain amount of time, the more you have a weapon/vehicle the less interesting it becomes. Special weapons/vehicles should be made in a way that they are rare, powerful, offer new strategies and the resources have to be managed carefully because they deplete rapidly.

Here is another example. You are in a UAC space station that has a ship port at one point of the level. Here you can find a remaining smaller ship that can be manned. This provides the player two possibilities, either he ignores the ship and makes his way through the starship OR he uses the ship to get there faster. The catch is that the ship has little ammo left and the player is assaulted by lots of cacodemons from space. Even if you take the ship, you can still return at any time to the port in case you run out of ammo or the cacodemons prove to be too strong.

See? Instead of a glorified turret section, the vehicle now provides the player with an extra route, which also adds replayability.

Old Post 03-01-14 19:08 #
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Doomguy777
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Good point, but.... DOOM 4 should have actual music. While I understand everyone wants a pure atmospheric game.... DOOM 4 should have heavy metal for some levels (where it's appropriate) and when it's not.... then I say ambient music. I also like your idea, should be applied in the Earth areas. The Hell area, should just be pure chaos and no vehicles. Just old-school DOOM action, and just awesomeness. Here's hoping that the new DOOM game whether it's a DOOM remake or DOOM 4.... I just want it to feel like a DOOM game. That's the thing with most sequels or reimaginings.

Some sequels and reimaginings feel like their actual game, case and point... Return to Castle Wolfenstein was a great reimagining. Now, I'm hoping that this new DOOM game (be it DOOM 4 or DOOM (201-) feels and plays out like a proper DOOM game. It should feel like a DOOM game, and it should play out like a DOOM game.

Old Post 03-03-14 00:39 #
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DooM_RO
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I didn't say NO heavy metal, I simply said that Doom was not just heavy metal, not by a long shot. 5 levels of the E1 did NOT have heavy metal. There should be a mix.

Old Post 03-03-14 06:03 #
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GoatLord
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I disagree that you "can't have scary and heavy metal at the same time." Obviously, in order for it to work, vocals must be absent, but I can't help but question who wouldn't find something at least unsettling about hearing these songs in a Doom environment.

Australian experimental death metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pKjF41Yx1k

Avant garde German black metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOI72uJYd5Y (relevant part is at 3:00)

Drone metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as6Dbw1aO_w

Finnish experimental black metal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Fcqgd3fz4 (relevant part is at 0:46)

Old Post 03-03-14 15:13 #
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Piper Maru
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We don't need heavy metal in Doom 4. It's too loud and distracting. If it is in Doom 4, than I'm turning the music off right away.

Old Post 03-03-14 17:47 #
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doom_is_great
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Some heavy metal and hard rock would be cool and appropriate at the right moments. I think there needs to be a mixture of both heavy metal, and slow, suspenseful, creepy music. During parts of the game where there is heavy action, hordes of monsters coming at you, heavy metal wouldn't be too bad. During portions of the game where you are traversing through dark corridors, alley ways and empty streets, slow creepy music would be very fitting for those moments.

EDIT: I think a good example of this was the first FEAR. When big, intense fire fights ensued, sometimes the music would increase in tempo and intensity. During slow, scary portions of the game, the music was a lot slower and creepier.

Old Post 03-03-14 17:58 #
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DooM_RO
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doom_is_great said:
Some heavy metal and hard rock would be cool and appropriate at the right moments. I think there needs to be a mixture of both heavy metal, and slow, suspenseful, creepy music. During parts of the game where there is heavy action, hordes of monsters coming at you, heavy metal wouldn't be too bad. During portions of the game where you are traversing through dark corridors, alley ways and empty streets, slow creepy music would be very fitting for those moments.

EDIT: I think a good example of this was the first FEAR. When big, intense fire fights ensued, sometimes the music would increase in tempo and intensity. During slow, scary portions of the game, the music was a lot slower and creepier.



That's how I see it too.

Old Post 03-03-14 18:28 #
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LANEGRACABRA
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Also, I dont know if this has been said but:

Even if we face demons from hell, I HOPE, I fucking HOPE theres no heaven and angels in this game. I want to have atmosphere where you at times feel completely hopeless and at times (like berserker power-up) you get to feel so bad-ass theres a tear of joy in the corner of your eye.

Old Post 03-03-14 19:40 #
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doom_is_great
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LANEGRACABRA said:
Also, I dont know if this has been said but:

Even if we face demons from hell, I HOPE, I fucking HOPE theres no heaven and angels in this game. I want to have atmosphere where you at times feel completely hopeless and at times (like berserker power-up) you get to feel so bad-ass theres a tear of joy in the corner of your eye.



Uh, I doubt that they would do that. The point of Doom has always been defeating the forces of hell with massive firepower, not with heavenly help.

Old Post 03-03-14 20:59 #
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Doomguy777
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DOOM 4 should have a mixture of heavy metal and ambient tracks. I mean look at DOOM (MS-DOS 1993) E1M1 was a metal song (No Remorse) E1M2 was a metal song (The Thing that Should Not Be) E1M3 was a metal song (Criminally Insane) E1M9 was a metal song (We Die Young) E1M4 was a metal song (Pantera - Rise) E1M5 was ambience. E1M6 (Sanity Obscure - Believer) E1M7 was Ambience! E1M8 was creepy metal ambience.

Old Post 03-04-14 01:10 #
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MFG38
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Doomguy777 said:
DOOM 4 should have a mixture of heavy metal and ambient tracks.


Quake-style ambient tracks might sound cool.

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Old Post 03-04-14 14:32 #
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Clonehunter
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Doom 4 should be Revolutionary and ditch all the cliches. And it should be filled with JAAAZZZZ

Old Post 03-04-14 14:45 #
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LANEGRACABRA
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doom_is_great said:


Uh, I doubt that they would do that. The point of Doom has always been defeating the forces of hell with massive firepower, not with heavenly help.



In Doom3 this almost happened with the ancient martian stuff. The weapon you need to use to defeat the cyberdemon seems somewhat "angelic".

Old Post 03-05-14 15:38 #
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mrthejoshmon
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Give me chromosome 24 plz.

Old Post 03-05-14 16:01 #
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Piper Maru
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LANEGRACABRA said:
Also, I dont know if this has been said but:

Even if we face demons from hell, I HOPE, I fucking HOPE theres no heaven and angels in this game. I want to have atmosphere where you at times feel completely hopeless and at times (like berserker power-up) you get to feel so bad-ass theres a tear of joy in the corner of your eye.



I HOPE, I fucking HOPE Jesus, Allah, Krishna and The Flying Spaghetti Monster have a significant role in Doom 4. I hope there is heaven and angels in this game. I want the atmosphere of where at times you feel helped and loved, and than other times you have to fucking RIP and TEAR with heavy metal music blaring in the background which causes blood to gush from your ears. FUCK YEAH DOOOOOM!

Old Post 03-07-14 09:23 #
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DooM_RO
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The nails from the nailgun are actually just the nails that were used to nail Jesus to the cross, only they are all from alternate dimensions.

Old Post 03-07-14 12:54 #
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LANEGRACABRA
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Piper Maru said:


I HOPE, I fucking HOPE Jesus, Allah, Krishna and The Flying Spaghetti Monster have a significant role in Doom 4. I hope there is heaven and angels in this game. I want the atmosphere of where at times you feel helped and loved, and than other times you have to fucking RIP and TEAR with heavy metal music blaring in the background which causes blood to gush from your ears. FUCK YEAH DOOOOOM!



that sums up the first Darksiders for me.

Old Post 03-08-14 19:18 #
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Doomguy777
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DOOM 4 or the new DOOM game should try to do what no other first-person shooter's done before. I want to see bone, shrapnel, teeth, blood, and I mean tons of blood and gore. I want it to cause controversy, I want it to be interactive, I want it to scare me the same way DOOM 1 did.

DOOM 4 should feel like a DOOM game, but it should expand upon the original ideas in ways that the designers could only have hoped to do to the engine. Also no weapon limit, no regenerating health, no dlc, and open vast huge levels with varying themes. No arenas though for God's sake that's why I didn't like Serious Sam or Painkiller....

Old Post 03-08-14 23:18 #
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Sqrrt121
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I really hope it supports mods. And the least I want is for it to not be a shitty game.

Old Post 03-09-14 00:37 #
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mrthejoshmon
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Doom 4 should do something new.

But then what really is new in this day and age? So let me rephrase: Doom 4 should do something rare/infrequent within most games.

Old Post 03-09-14 00:56 #
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Doomguy777
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mrthejoshmon said:
Doom 4 should do something new.

But then what really is new in this day and age? So let me rephrase: Doom 4 should do something rare/infrequent within most games.



Physics, tons of blood and gore, no weapon limit, no regenerating health, no reloading, key hunting, maps that are like mazes, maps that are linear but have different routes you can take (secret areas), atmosphere, 80's thrash metal/early 90's thrash metal/80's heavy metal/early 90's heavy metal soundtrack and ambient soundtrack. Story that exists and it's there but is only there at the beginning of the game, and at the end of chapters. Like one cutscene at the beginning explaining how you got on Phobos. One cutscene at the end of the chapter, one cutscene of the beginning of the Shores of Hell, and at the end of Shores of Hell. And also for Inferno. Which reminds me....

There should be tons of Hell in DOOM 4.

It shouldn't have an over-the-top story like Bioshock Infinite in your face and emotional. I want a video game, not an interactive book or movie. Albeit I do want a story, but I don't want an interactive book (Bioshock Infinite) or an interactive movie (practically every COD and Battlefield in existance)

DOOM 4 should be straight up awesome! Gameplay over spectacle. I want it to feel like a 90's game. I want it to be.... DOOM (1993) but remade in the best possible fashion known to mankind. The way that the fans want it to.

In fact, I'm proud to be a DOOM fan, and I would be happy if they catered to our audience rather than the stupid casuals and non-DOOM fans. Oh that's another thing. NO FUCKING TUTORIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Old Post 03-09-14 16:04 #
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DooM_RO
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Doomguy777 said:


Physics, tons of blood and gore, no weapon limit, no regenerating health, no reloading, key hunting, maps that are like mazes, maps that are linear but have different routes you can take (secret areas), atmosphere, 80's thrash metal/early 90's thrash metal/80's heavy metal/early 90's heavy metal soundtrack and ambient soundtrack. Story that exists and it's there but is only there at the beginning of the game, and at the end of chapters. Like one cutscene at the beginning explaining how you got on Phobos. One cutscene at the end of the chapter, one cutscene of the beginning of the Shores of Hell, and at the end of Shores of Hell. And also for Inferno. Which reminds me....

There should be tons of Hell in DOOM 4.

It shouldn't have an over-the-top story like Bioshock Infinite in your face and emotional. I want a video game, not an interactive book or movie. Albeit I do want a story, but I don't want an interactive book (Bioshock Infinite) or an interactive movie (practically every COD and Battlefield in existance)

DOOM 4 should be straight up awesome! Gameplay over spectacle. I want it to feel like a 90's game. I want it to be.... DOOM (1993) but remade in the best possible fashion known to mankind. The way that the fans want it to.

In fact, I'm proud to be a DOOM fan, and I would be happy if they catered to our audience rather than the stupid casuals and non-DOOM fans. Oh that's another thing. NO FUCKING TUTORIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I promise you will never get that game.

The best AAA oldschool shooter we can hope for at the moment is Wolfenstein: The New Order, because we know diddly squat about Doom 4.

Old Post 03-09-14 16:13 #
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Waffenak
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I start my wishlist negative way this time: I hope DOOM 4 doesn't have vehicles you need to use to move from point A to B, quicktime events, missions like:" go to demon fortress, collect 20 skulls to open portal to...", annoying companions--> DOOM is one man journey, not jolly good roadtrip with pals

Old Post 03-09-14 19:35 #
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Five Magics
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Doomguy777 said:

NO FUCKING TUTORIALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



But why though? As long as the tutorial is seperate from the campaign or isn't very long, I don't see why they shouldn't. Especially when you mentioned 'new technology' and 'innovation'.



Doomguy777 said:

stupid casuals



Oh of course.

Old Post 03-10-14 10:39 #
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Shaviro
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Doomguy777 said:
In fact, I'm proud to be a DOOM fan, and I would be happy if they catered to our audience rather than the stupid casuals and non-DOOM fans.


But you do realize that "our audience" is extremely small, right?

Old Post 03-10-14 11:27 #
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