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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 8137
Registered: 06-06

Xeros612 said:

>Get Jdoom/Doomsday/Risen3D
>Get 3d model packs
>Get bassmidi driver with good soundfont
>Get fancy sound pack
>Enjoy

Done and done. Ultimate Doom "remake" that you don't have to spend extra money for. The world's full enough of remakes/rehashes/etc. and we don't need more of them. Not even Doom ones.

Replace Ultimate Doom with Heretic and I'll agree. It looks just outstanding upgraded like that.

08-11-11 22:48 #

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DoomzRules
Loser

Posts: 11
Registered: 08-11

geo said:
I think I have a good question....

Should Doom 4 have a weapon reload like Doom 4 or should it require no reload like Doom 1?

No reload...
That's the way I like it.
It makes much more sense. We all played DOOM 1 and we were happy with no reloading. Am I right? Or wrong? I just want DOOM 4 to play like it's classic old-self.

08-12-11 02:29 #

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Tetzlaff
Senior Member

Posts: 1053
Registered: 06-00

Wrong. Reloading adds a slim layer of tactical depth to the gameplay and I don't want to miss it.

08-12-11 04:59 #

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Gordon
Mini-Member

Posts: 65
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Actually, the Super Shotgun reloaded with every shot, so there technically was reloading in classic Doom.

But I really don't care if Doom 4 has reloading or not.

08-12-11 08:27 #

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AirRaid
Graphics Zealot

Posts: 2703
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Gordon said:
Actually, the Super Shotgun reloaded with every shot, so there technically was reloading in classic Doom.

But I really don't care if Doom 4 has reloading or not.

Not really. The animation shows fresh cartridges being loaded, but the mechanic is identical to every other weapon, just with a really slow fire rate.

08-12-11 16:27 #

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TheEndOfUs
Junior Member

Posts: 137
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I dont want super realistic weapons in Doom 4, but reloading should def. be in.

08-12-11 20:54 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 8137
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AirRaid said:

Not really. The animation shows fresh cartridges being loaded, but the mechanic is identical to every other weapon, just with a really slow fire rate.

The point is that it's possible to camouflage reloading weapons as non-reloading ones. Just see the SSG in Doom 3 expansion, it acts like the old guns because you don't have to press R, it has to reload anyway mandatorily.

08-12-11 22:04 #

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AirRaid
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Posts: 2703
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No, you've got that the wrong way round.

Doom 2 camouflages a nonreloading weapon as a reloading one. You could edit the singlebarrel shotgun anim so that he flips it and pushes a shell in every time if you wanted. Same concept. But it wouldn't make sense for that weapon.

Yes, the DB shotty in ROE works kind of the same way because it uses it's entire clip in one shot. So does the BFG, if you charge it fully. One shot, reload, one shot, reload. That's all in the weapon design, in the choices they made for the clip sizes, though. You can make the DB shotty in ROE have a bigger clip, lets say, 6, if you want. Then it'll fire 3 times before reloading, or you could reload at any time. But it wouldn't make sense for that weapon.

For that matter, you could mod the Chaingun in Doom 3 to hold every single bullet you can carry in it's clip. THEN it would truly act like the Doom 2 chaingun. And incidentally, have the exact same mechanics as the ROE DBS at that point.

It's entirely possible even with todays real weapons to have a double barreled shotgun that can hold more than two rounds. But they didn't design those guns like that. The ROE DBS was a throwback to Doom2s DB shotty, so of course it would be 2 shells only.

08-12-11 22:50 #

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DoomzRules
Loser

Posts: 11
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I would like to say... DOOM 4 in my opinion...
Should be a sequel to DOOM 2. It should tell us what happened. I wouldn't mind running through a destroyed city with a shotgun. An Imp is on top of a car. I shoot it. No reloading. Same gameplay. Just new graphics and some badass music. I think DOOM 4 should be an old-school styled game. id Software if you are reading this... please take hints from games like Serious Sam. Make it open and fun. Make it like when we first played it back in '93.

08-22-11 02:57 #

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DoomzRules
Loser

Posts: 11
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Maybe I'm a bit crazy... But I think the pistol should have a clip the size of 200. But the clip is small. And the Single Shotgun should be able to hold 100 shells. And the Chaingun should be able to hold 500. and you get the idea. The point is that would work. 200 shots... then you have to reload. Just when you thought you had it under control... you have to reload. Or not. LOL JK. THERE SHOULD BE NO RELOADING!

08-22-11 03:01 #

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DoomzRules
Loser

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TheEndOfUs said:
I dont want super realistic weapons in Doom 4, but reloading should def. be in.

I have an idea.... this might actually work. Remember the ammo limit from DOOM 1 & 2? Good, now imagine that after you've fired it all up... you have to reload. Like say you have 50 rounds in your 200 round carrying pistol... You reload that.... and you can collect more clips. It would work. Don't ya think?

08-22-11 03:02 #

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Shaviro
Team Future Chief

Posts: 10750
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DoomzRules said:
please take hints from games like Serious Sam.......... Make it like when we first played it back in '93.

What? Which is it?
There's a world of difference between Serious Sam's closed arena slaughterfest style play and Doom's (somewhat) open environment approach.
Anyway. Want a classic doom carbon copy? Play classic doom.

This is what I don't get. You, like so many others, argue that Doom should be an arcadish slaughterfest. Something that I'd a
rgue Doom never was. There are a lot of custom wads that have turned it into this, but I don't see Doom as anything remotely close to Serious Sam. Wanting Doom to be arcadeish slaughterfest is completely valid of course, but you then proceed to say "Make it like when we first played it back in '93."
This is where it makes no sense to me. Back in '93, Doom was cutting edge with much more realistic graphics, environments and weapons. They even had simulated reloading (visually, not functionally) in there on some of them. The play was also a whole lot less arcadeish back then than pretty much any other action game.

Doom was cutting edge. It was going in the realistic direction compared to most anything else and it had a more atmospheric approach. I remember this as being extremely apparent when I myself played it back then. In this category, Doom has a lot more in common with Half-Life 1 than with Serious Sam.

Also, when people demand a carbon copy of Doom, only with awesome graphics, they're usually referring to realistic looking graphics. This will never ever work. A more realistic looking game will also require more realistic movement and environments. Doom's somewhat abstract leveldesign will never work in a realistic looking graphics engine. This has been proven over and over again in various modern Doom level "remakes".

Id needs to pick a direction and stick to it or they will be caught between two chairs. Doom3 suffered a little from this. Hyper-realistic environments with cheap monster closets did not work.

Last edited by Shaviro on 08-22-11 at 14:26

08-22-11 14:07 #

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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.

Posts: 1860
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I don't know if you can really do abstract level designs with simplified gameplay mechanics in this day and age. I think id will be forced to make a realistic and detailed game. I think it's possible to make it in the vein of the old games, but it would be career suicide for them to try to go back nearly 20 years just for the sake of fanatics like us.

08-22-11 16:15 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

Posts: 979
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DoomzRules said:
Maybe I'm a bit crazy... But I think the pistol should have a clip the size of 200. But the clip is small. And the Single Shotgun should be able to hold 100 shells. And the Chaingun should be able to hold 500. and you get the idea. The point is that would work. 200 shots... then you have to reload. Just when you thought you had it under control... you have to reload. Or not. LOL JK. THERE SHOULD BE NO RELOADING!

Or maybe you should just play the Doom games made in the 90s. Regression in game design is no less bad than stagnation, and certainly won't fix any of the issues and "issues" in modern shooters. Also, edit button. Use it.

08-22-11 16:42 #

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geo
Senior Member

Posts: 1643
Registered: 10-05

I really think they need to make Doom fresh. Not fresh for Doom, but fresh from every other FPS game out there. Reinvent the wheel. Do it all over again.

08-22-11 20:45 #

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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.

Posts: 1860
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But that's not id software's attitude. Doom may have been ahead of its time because of its powerful engine, but keep in mind that the original game was going to be much more detailed and story-driven. They abandoned that aesthetic in exchange for brutal, straightforward running-and-gunning.

Then again, Rage appears to be their first attempt to create a more progressive shooter, so Doom 4 may surprise us all. But it seems to me that it's going to be like most id games: It'll be incredibly immersive and visually distinctive, but probably not innovative.

08-23-11 18:50 #

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geo
Senior Member

Posts: 1643
Registered: 10-05

LOL was going to is the key word. Quake was going to be a lot of things too. But you know like Mario / Zelda / Doom... start with a back story and just have a game :-)

08-24-11 04:24 #

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AirRaid
Graphics Zealot

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Shaviro said:

What? Which is it?
There's a world of difference between Serious Sam's closed arena slaughterfest style play and Doom's (somewhat) open environment approach.
Anyway. Want a classic doom carbon copy? Play classic doom.

This is what I don't get. You, like so many others, argue that Doom should be an arcadish slaughterfest. Something that I'd a
rgue Doom never was. There are a lot of custom wads that have turned it into this, but I don't see Doom as anything remotely close to Serious Sam. Wanting Doom to be arcadeish slaughterfest is completely valid of course, but you then proceed to say "Make it like when we first played it back in '93."
This is where it makes no sense to me. Back in '93, Doom was cutting edge with much more realistic graphics, environments and weapons. They even had simulated reloading (visually, not functionally) in there on some of them. The play was also a whole lot less arcadeish back then than pretty much any other action game.

Doom was cutting edge. It was going in the realistic direction compared to most anything else and it had a more atmospheric approach. I remember this as being extremely apparent when I myself played it back then. In this category, Doom has a lot more in common with Half-Life 1 than with Serious Sam.

Also, when people demand a carbon copy of Doom, only with awesome graphics, they're usually referring to realistic looking graphics. This will never ever work. A more realistic looking game will also require more realistic movement and environments. Doom's somewhat abstract leveldesign will never work in a realistic looking graphics engine. This has been proven over and over again in various modern Doom level "remakes".

Id needs to pick a direction and stick to it or they will be caught between two chairs. Doom3 suffered a little from this. Hyper-realistic environments with cheap monster closets did not work.

I wonder if I can get this entire post in huge neon letters at the top of the Doom 4 forum. Would save some hassle I think! Pure truth.

08-24-11 17:30 #

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DooM_RO
Member

Posts: 604
Registered: 02-11

I totally agree with what shaviro said.There are indeed a lot of mods and maps that practically copy paste classic doom assets in doom 3 and you know what?It looks very ugly.Classic doom 3 is and exception but even that isn't good enough.

After playing DooM 3 a few times I have come to the conclusion that it is NOT a bad game in the end,it's actually quite fun.The problem is that well...it's just...not good enough.

To me DooM 3 had a HUGE amount of potential and Id almost got it with DooM 3.The art style is amazing and they actually used 3 or 4 textures from DooM 1.Some of the rooms also really look like classic doom.

The things they did wrong were the flashlight,weapons(from looks, functionality and sounds),monsters(they were all grey and looked the same), and level design failed to surprise us after a while even though the art style is top notch.

The darkness is another touchy subject mainly because it wasn't bad, it just wasn't handled properly.DooM 1 had a lot of dark areas(computer room from E1M2) but the difference between the darkness in doom 1 and doom 3 is that in doom 1 it doesn't slow the gameplay,it is just used to set the mood not to scare the player.

In conclusion I think Id went in the right direction with doom 3 but stumbled somewhere during development and a few things that could have been easily fixed considerably slowed the gameplay.I hope doom 4 will improve doom 3 in every possible way and make it the game it was meant to be.

I have faith that Id will make doom 4 a fantastic game but that remains to be seen until we see the first trailers and screenshots.In a recent rage interview id said that they dropped the cover system because it slowed the gameplay a lot.I believe that they learned their lesson after doom 3.

AirRaid said:

I wonder if I can get this entire post in huge neon letters at the top of the Doom 4 forum. Would save some hassle I think! Pure truth.

That and a sticky where all doom 4 related news is posted :D

08-24-11 19:23 #

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DASI-I
Mini-Member

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DooM_RO said:
The things they did wrong were the flashlight,weapons(from looks, functionality and sounds),monsters(they were all grey and looked the same), and level design failed to surprise us after a while even though the art style is top notch.

The darkness is another touchy subject mainly because it wasn't bad, it just wasn't handled properly.DooM 1 had a lot of dark areas(computer room from E1M2) but the difference between the darkness in doom 1 and doom 3 is that in doom 1 it doesn't slow the gameplay,it is just used to set the mood not to scare the player.

You're right about doom 3 monsters and the repetitive levels. But I actually liked the scary lighting bits in Doom 3 (although I'm not a huge fan of fPSs that forces the player to constantly walk in thick darkness).

You know: I started this thread in hopes that the guys at id would take a look right here to get an idea of what us players want. but if there was one thing that I personally would like in Doom 4 is to have SPEED and NON-REPETITIVE LEVELS (OK, maybe that's 2 things) But as for everything else, they can do what ever the heck they want (no pun intended) because everything else is a matter of opinion...well, atleast that's my opinion. ^_^

08-25-11 19:24 #

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geo
Senior Member

Posts: 1643
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I wonder if they feel repetitive because the game is twice as long as modern FPS. Or maybe if they went to different planets or if the base felt different... Like a ghetto... a high tech... a brick area... a sewer...

08-25-11 20:05 #

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AirRaid
Graphics Zealot

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DooM_RO said:

That and a sticky where all doom 4 related news is posted :D

If someone wants to make and maintain one, I'll sticky it.

08-26-11 15:06 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

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An old buddy of mine that I caught up with last night thought of a good idea for if not Doom 4, then Doom 4: limited edition:

Package the entire Doom series in as a bonus with the limited edition. (Excluding the 20 billion ports of the first two games.) It's a pretty cool idea for collector's value, and the console guys would have a much better port of Doom 3 than the xbox 1 could handle.

09-02-11 20:26 #

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Redeemer812
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Ports take time. If they did that, they would most likely just reuse existing work and apply emulation when it is needed.

09-03-11 03:48 #

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Xeros612
Forum Regular

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Redeemer812 said:
Ports take time.

All good things do. Worse comes to worse they can get a third party company to do the porting. It still stands that it would be pretty cool to have such a collector's edition, even for someone like me who already has all the good Doom games.

09-03-11 17:07 #

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Redeemer812
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Meh. I still think they could do something better with their time.

09-03-11 23:01 #

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geo
Senior Member

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Better with their time... hmmm...

Limited editions are tough to do.

Why not just have 1,000 autographed special covers of DOOM 4 for $100. If you like DOOM or ID enough, you'll buy it even though there's nothing really all that special about it...

You'll have a collector's item instead of statues or T-shirts or night vision goggles or remote control cars like the other games.

I have the collector's edition of DOOM 3 for X-BOX. It came with a few bonuses like DOOM 1 and 2 and a GTV retrospective on ID. But that's stuff the Internet has already.

09-04-11 01:59 #

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AirRaid
Graphics Zealot

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Xeros612 said:
An old buddy of mine that I caught up with last night thought of a good idea for if not Doom 4, then Doom 4: limited edition:

Package the entire Doom series in as a bonus with the limited edition. (Excluding the 20 billion ports of the first two games.) It's a pretty cool idea for collector's value, and the console guys would have a much better port of Doom 3 than the xbox 1 could handle.

This is a pretty poor idea. This basically says "Hey, we want new customers!" All you guys who've been loyal for ages? Yeah basically fuck you, pay us more money for something you've already bought probably multiple times already".

Limited Editions are usually bought by the diehard, long time fans... making the limited edition something that they already have would be a huge dick move.

Actually they kind of did this with Quake 4, the Special Edition came with Quake 2, Mission Packs, and not much else. That sucked.

I still bought it.

09-04-11 09:42 #

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Redeemer812
Junior Member

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Actually they kind of did this with Quake 4, the Special Edition came with Quake 2, Mission Packs, and not much else.

Special editions really can't contain much more than a trinket or two, some free offers, or a bunch of media, and I didn't have Quake II so this was actually a pretty good deal for me.

But Doom? That just seems like a really bad move to me. Everyone already knows what Doom was, even if they never really played it much themselves. id came under plenty of fire from the gaming community for living and breathing off of its own legacy for so long. To waste a bunch of time porting those old games and throwing them on a disc would just scream once more, "Remember how great we used to be?!" And we don't really need any of that.

09-04-11 15:23 #

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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.

Posts: 1860
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Here's a suggestion: Create attributes for each enemy that can be randomized so that if say, a cluster of imps are coming at you, each one would look distinctive. Some might have a thicker brow, darker or lighter flesh, more or less spikes, variation in height and muscularity; hell, some might even appear younger or older than others. So rather than having some silly class system where there's eight types of imps, physical characteristics could be randomly adjusted so that it doesn't look like you're fighting one imp and his 50 identical twins.

09-05-11 18:44 #

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