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DooM_RO
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At least they scrapped the horrible Call of Doom idea. Instead of copying RAGE they copied COD. I'm gonna post Call of Dooty on their twitter just for lulz. (you should do it too)

I also applaud Zenimax's decision to spank Id, they really needed it. Your flagship game is not doing well and you are planning a sequel to a game that received lukewarm reception? Yeaaaaaah, not very smart.

Old Post 04-04-13 05:46 #
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DoomUK
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DooM_RO said:
Words cannot describe how disappointed I am...they REALLY need a serious kick in the butt, haven't you learned anything from Doom 3 or RAGE? People don't want mindless linear shooters. ALSO, Doom is not only about shotguns and demons, these are only the most superficial traits of doom.What it also needs is atmosphere and at least some degree of exploration. I think we should mass tweet them with what gamers truly want. SERIOUSLY, W.T.F were they even thinking?! Call of Doom?! (as the article states). WTF is going on?! Looks like I was right about them copying modern games in a servile manner. I don't mind if there are a few or more inspirations from modern games, but THIS?!After four years?! Wtf are they doing?They are not some new company? They're ID!! I'm seriously thinking about posting the "Should Id fire Tim Willits" thread on their Twitter until they get a fucking clue. If there is anyone who can do anything to change their minds then it's Doomworld.

If you are reading this Id, then look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution, THAT'S how you make a sequel to a classic game, not by making a fucking Call of Duty clone. People don't care if you are Id, if you screw this up, gamers will not forgive you for it.

EDIT: They are apparently recruiting talent for the reboot...maybe some of you could join as level designers?That would be awesome! http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming...eeks-new-staff/


Did you stop reading halfway through the article?

EDIT: Oops, I didn't see your follow-up post.

Last edited by DoomUK on 04-04-13 at 19:59

Old Post 04-04-13 07:30 #
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Urban Space Cowboy
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Trasher][ said:
Project reboots, power struggles, serious morale issues, thinly-veiled threats... it's basically Heaven's Gate with Cacodemons.
Well, now we know where all the former 3D Realms employees went after that company died!

Old Post 04-04-13 09:21 #
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Woolie Wool
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doom_is_great said:
Anyway, I don't think id needs to carbon copy Brutal Doom, however, I think they should take a look at it and consider some of the cool aspects of the mod which they could emulate in Doom 4.


Almost every element of Brutal Doom introduces the sort of modern shooter elements and "bro culture" that most people around here don't want in Doom 4.

(Brutal Hexen is better anyway.)

Old Post 04-04-13 23:56 #
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Mr. Freeze
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the article said:
Call
of
Doom



http://asportinggoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/a_projectile_vomiting_and_guy_jpg.jpg
http://macsoda.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/screaming-man-jpg.jpeg
http://www.swallowfood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/sad-man.jpg
http://2guystalkingmetsbaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Businessman_Holding_Gun_To_Head_MON098143.jpg

Old Post 04-05-13 00:04 #
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Kontra Kommando
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When I think of how Doom 4 should play, i feel the enemy AI should utilize coverage in gun-fights to some degree, but should generally be gung-ho, ruthless, and suicidal. I picture gangs of marauding shotgunners using their numbers to take you down, not really caring about taking a hit, since they're crazed, reanimated, and possessed. What Doom 3 was missing were huge climatic battles against dozens of expendable enemies in large areas; I feel that's what gave Doom, and Doom 2 its character. The classic Doom games were much more chaotic, and that's what made them better in my opinion.

For me, levels like E1M4, E3M3, and E4M2 are definitively Doom; the music, the layout; and the enemy placements.

Last edited by Kontra Kommando on 04-05-13 at 16:25

Old Post 04-05-13 16:09 #
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Woolie Wool
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"Huge climatic battles against dozens of expendable enemies in large areas" as a central fixture of gameplay is not Doom, it's Serious Sam. What would make it a lot more Doom-like would be (A) very high player mobility (in fact, just crib Quake III Arena's movement physics), (B) open, branching level design with a minimum of scripting and set-piece elements, and most importantly (C) do not split enemy encounters into separate, discrete fights, but rather have them populating the entire map, with handfuls of enemies here and there as well as bigger fights.

I cannot overstate the importance of the latter. Segmenting level design into a series of shooting galleries is bad practice.

Old Post 04-05-13 23:47 #
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doom_is_great
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Woolie Wool said:
"Huge climatic battles against dozens of expendable enemies in large areas" as a central fixture of gameplay is not Doom, it's Serious Sam. What would make it a lot more Doom-like would be (A) very high player mobility (in fact, just crib Quake III Arena's movement physics), (B) open, branching level design with a minimum of scripting and set-piece elements, and most importantly (C) do not split enemy encounters into separate, discrete fights, but rather have them populating the entire map, with handfuls of enemies here and there as well as bigger fights.

I cannot overstate the importance of the latter. Segmenting level design into a series of shooting galleries is bad practice.



Totally agree. I imagine one of the levels of Doom 4 being like Dead City in Rage only bigger and more explorable and not linear with lots of enemies roaming around looking for random humans to kill. That's what id needs to make the levels of Doom 4 like.

Old Post 04-06-13 04:05 #
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Glaice
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I would not forgive ID for that Call of Doom shit if Zenimax or Bethesda didn't tell them to scrap that. Linear CoD-like nonsense with cutscenes and an on-rails driving sequence is not Doom, that reeks of modern shooters.

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Old Post 04-07-13 06:12 #
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Touchdown
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Again, id made the decision to restart, not Zenimax.

Old Post 04-07-13 08:33 #
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DoomUK
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Whoever was behind the decision to restart, I don't think many people could deny that it's in the game's best interests. It's probably in Id's best interests, too.

I'm just going to echo what's been said ad nauseum about Call of Doom being a horribly bad idea: It's a horribly bad idea.

Old Post 04-07-13 09:54 #
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Kontra Kommando
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Woolie Wool said:
I cannot overstate the importance of the latter. Segmenting level design into a series of shooting galleries is bad practice.


That's pretty much what I meant; moreover, those enemies in the classic doom games are numerous, and pretty expendable if you ask me. I liked the chaotic feel the old games had, I guess that's what you mean by not segmenting the gun fights.

Old Post 04-08-13 18:17 #
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Kontra Kommando
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doom_is_great said:

not linear with lots of enemies roaming around looking for random humans to kill.



Not saying doom was linear, but what else do you think the AI in the classic doom was set out to do? It's not like you were able to reason with them. lol At most maybe they would kill each other, if one hit another with friendly-fire.

Old Post 04-08-13 18:42 #
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doom_is_great
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Kontra Kommando said:


Not saying doom was linear, but what else do you think the AI in the classic doom was set out to do? It's not like you were able to reason with them. lol At most maybe they would kill each other, if one hit another with friendly-fire.



I meant to say that the levels should be non linear with lots of enemies roaming around to kill random humans. I should have structured my sentence better.

Old Post 04-08-13 18:51 #
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Kontra Kommando
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When it comes to gun fighting, Doom 4 needs to include those moments when hordes of enemies would just pop out of secret rooms after something is triggered or walked over. It worked with the graphics and level design of the old Doom games, but may be a little hard recreate in Doom 4 without looking awkward. They could probably get away with doing more of that in Hellish levels, but it would seem strange in the human world.

Old Post 04-08-13 18:53 #
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Face23785
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Fuck.

Old Post 04-08-13 20:11 #
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Kontra Kommando
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Also, Doom 4 needs to be more occult-oriented. For example, I didn't like the look of the Hell Knights in Doom 3; they looked too alien-like. Personally, I prefer more demonic, goat-headed enemies, in levels riddled with pentagrams, and suspended corpses in chains. I know doom is a blend of sci-fi and the occult, but I felt that Doom 3 went more towards sci-fi. That was probably a conscience decision they made, to avoid extra flak from religious groups.

That's also a big reason why Doom the movie was crap(among many others). They didn't make any references to hell really. For me, Doom should be overtly satanic in it's themes.

Last edited by Kontra Kommando on 04-08-13 at 20:52

Old Post 04-08-13 20:46 #
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Enjay
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Kontra Kommando said:
Stuff about hell imagery versus alien imagery

I very much agree. I don't actually dislike the imp and hell knight designs but, to me, they say "alien" and not "hell". They'd be fine in a straight up sci-fi game but they do not (IMO) get across the hellish nature that these creatures are supposed to have.

I also think that the look of them was something of a fashion; a look that was in vogue at the time. As such, I think the designs are already starting to look a little dated and "of their time". I feel that more traditional looking hell imagery would have been more timeless.

Old Post 04-08-13 21:57 #
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printz
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Enjay said:
but they do not (IMO) get across the hellish nature that these creatures are supposed to have.
I like the Doom 3 Hell Knight. It's a design as simple as it can get: a huge humanoid who throws very dangerous projectiles. Its look is basic and the vocalizations are forgettable and too familiar (SC1 Zerg Ultralisk), but it's scary precisely because of the threat level shit gets real when they're around. I like how they seem to toy with you by hesitating to throw that plasma of death while you shiver. I also don't see how a generic humanoid shape can become 'dated'.

The Doom 3 imp doesn't look so good (multiple eyes is corny) and makes annoying sounds, but still is a better challenge than the classic Doom imp.

I'd love to see a Doom 4 going in the other extreme direction, by depicting satyrs and alleged baphomet symbols as demons, considering that Doom 3 opted to be more alien-like, and classic Doom was somewhere in the middle (more elemental than magical, but still with horns and hooves).

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Last edited by printz on 04-08-13 at 23:23

Old Post 04-08-13 23:14 #
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DooM_RO
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Kontra Kommando said:
When it comes to gun fighting, Doom 4 needs to include those moments when hordes of enemies would just pop out of secret rooms after something is triggered or walked over. It worked with the graphics and level design of the old Doom games, but may be a little hard recreate in Doom 4 without looking awkward. They could probably get away with doing more of that in Hellish levels, but it would seem strange in the human world.


They kind of overdid that in Doom 3.

Old Post 04-09-13 06:36 #
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bcwood16
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Im certainly loosing faith that Doom 4 will be any good at all :(

Guess we shall just have to wait it out and see what pops out from id

Old Post 04-18-13 15:31 #
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Squadallah
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I think that whatever the number of reboots etc, we WILL get a Call of Doom.
Saying "do it like Skyrim" includes : make it easy enough so that kids don't ragequit because damn, they have to make an effort to be able to brag in front of their friends!

In other words , I'm very pessimistic about this since the beginning.

Old Post 04-21-13 10:35 #
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Solarn
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It's Kotaku, therefore I don't believe a word of it.

Old Post 04-21-13 11:16 #
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DooM_RO
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Squadallah said:
I think that whatever the number of reboots etc, we WILL get a Call of Doom.
Saying "do it like Skyrim" includes : make it easy enough so that kids don't ragequit because damn, they have to make an effort to be able to brag in front of their friends!

In other words , I'm very pessimistic about this since the beginning.



Because the original Doom was so hard right?

Old Post 04-21-13 13:23 #
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Squadallah
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The original Doom was introducing something quite new in gameplay so it couldn't get straight away with hectic difficulty. After this "introduction" you got Doom 2 that was already pretty much harder. Which is not the case of most fps we have today with autoaim etc...

Old Post 04-21-13 13:54 #
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Gez
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Squadallah said:
Saying "do it like Skyrim"

And they never said that.

Old Post 04-21-13 14:37 #
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Caffeine Freak
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DooM_RO said:


Because the original Doom was so hard right?



The classic Doom games are only occasionally challenging for me on UV. On NM, they're impossible for me. And that's generally how it plays out with custom WADS as well.

Old Post 04-22-13 06:16 #
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DoomUK
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Skyrim isn't all that easy if you play it on Legendary, either. Unless it's your nth playthrough and you know exactly where everything is and what perks are upgraded the fastest.

I challenge anyone to play the game using only magicka and wearing only mage robes.

Old Post 04-22-13 13:55 #
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bcwood16
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DoomUK said:
Skyrim isn't all that easy if you play it on Legendary, either. Unless it's your nth playthrough and you know exactly where everything is and what perks are upgraded the fastest.

I challenge anyone to play the game using only magicka and wearing only mage robes.



Can you take followers with you ?

Otherwise I thick its going to be a short life for Mr/Mrs Mage

Old Post 04-22-13 14:06 #
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StevieCybernetik
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Jesus. That article made me lose even more faith in ID. Ever since Q3A they've been in serious decline when it comes to gaming originality. Doom3, Rage, and the newer Wolfenstein were "alright", but not anything timeless and unforgettable. They were unbelievably generic and very uninspired. I think that ID is slowing tiring from making games as opposed to standalone Tech and that is becoming more and more apparent.

If Doom4 tanks, like I've speculated it will for some time now, even before reading this article, it will effectively be the death of the company to gamers. I mean for fuck's sake, a reboot? Really? So the BFG edition and the millions of re-releases of DooM (including its laundry list of ports over the years) wasn't enough? They keep wanting to do something original and yet settle for the lowest common denominator.

It also did not make me very pleased to hear how dysfunctional they've become as a team. A production crew of any sort has to have some cohesiveness and ability to work together to work at all, and this honestly sounds like 3DRealms before they eventually shitcanned themselves.

Personally, Doom4 needs to stick to the basics to work at all. Minimal narrative, nonstop action, and no more of this "passe brutality". Doom3 really pissed me off when the bodies of fallen enemies crumpled away into dust. Games are getting so soft and weak now because overly sensitive bastards that its making them all suffer as a whole. Doom4 needs to be as bloody, as fucked up, and as gory as you can possibly make it. doom_is_great said it best. Take the best elements of what is making Brutal Doom so popular, but don't lift them cold, EXPAND on them. Doomguy is a pissed off space marine that just got down executing a whole planet from a demonic invasion, and gets back to earth just to have to do it all over again. So make it fucking rock, not this ridiculous "cawadooty" bullshit.

Get it together ID.

Old Post 05-05-13 16:58 #
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