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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2686
Registered: 07-02


With a severe lack of concrete information, it's understandable that most Doom 4 threads are necessarily deleted. I'm hoping to encourage this one's staying power by asking a series of relevant questions, which will be limited to answers of no more than three sentences, starting with my thoughts.

Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
I'd love to see a combination, because while an Earth setting would offer tons of variety, it would also be interesting to see environments set in space, the moon, starships or some otherworldly vision of Hell.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
I personally don't need bleeding inverted crosses, pentagrams or monsters resembling classic descriptions of demons. It would be more effective to utilize images which are nightmarish, monsterous, disturbing and visceral. Demonic elements should be present, but specifically referencing Christian imagery would be too B-movie for a modern Doom.

How much emphasis should there be on story?
Enough to keep the player genuinely interested without making them feel like the gameplay is being needlessly interrupted. It shouldn't be bare bones nor should it be convoluted and overly deep. Avoiding being cheesy will be difficult.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
If these and other elements are used infrequently and subtly, they could not only work but offer a fun change of pace. Anything with vehicles should probably be on-rails and high octane.

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
Get too high concept and it won't feel like Doom, while offering the same familiar setup with minor contemporizing (as in Doom 3) won't cut it, either. The guns need to be brutal and satisfying, but should utilize elements that more strategic gamers can take advantage of.

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
The basic designs of the classics would be a good starting point, although they should look truly horrific and threatening, not just detailed or realistic. I'd love to see some inventive new designs and maybe varieties of similar types.

How should multiplayer be handled?
Online matches will need to have solid, built-for-MP maps, as well as a versus mode where you can play as the monsters. A co-op campaign mode is a must.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
Giving the player numerous pathways to explore while requiring that a specific criteria for exiting be met has always been a cornerstone of the series. Giving the player a moderate degree of exploratory freedom within a linear setting is a must. Realism mixed with nightmarish surrealism would make for good map design.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?
Dramatic lighting, organic looking surfaces, realistic animation, competent physics and lots of viscera. I wouldn't mind seeing fluid simulation, day-to-night transitions, weather systems and dynamic destructibility.

What should be the approach to sound design?
Abandon hard rock and metal riffs, although droning feedback and guitar noise touches could work. Focus primarily on dark ambient; no cheesy orchestral scores. Sound effects need to have punch, proper reverb, and variation (not just the same two footstep samples over and over).

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
Used sparingly, this could work very effectively, though it complicates the possibility of co-op. a combination of human and robot assistance would be interesting.

How much emphasis should Hell have?
The classic games typically feature a steady descent into a progressively more "corrupt" environment, and Doom 4 should follow suit. One should get the implication that the force responsible for the invasion is transforming Earth into a living nightmare.

Old Post 04-17-13 17:17 #
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Shaviro
Team Future Chief


Posts: 8855
Registered: 06-00


Great post!

Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
Well. It's a combination. Assuming that we're going Earth, let's have a campaign that starts out pre-invasion and then shows the fall of society. They could have the events happening on Mars and its moons play out in the background with rumours and news reports. Uncertainty. Then one day things descend into Chaos.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
I personally don't need any demon stuff in the religious context. Alternate dimension fuckery is enough for me.

How much emphasis should there be on story?
Lots, but it doesn't necessarily need to be a typical shooter story. What I mean by "lots" is that the game should be rooted in its story and constantly use it to reinforce whatever feelings that benefit the game. For instance, if it's about an invasion of Earth, show us how every day life is first. Show us some characters that live in the world and have their own hopes and dreams that are completely urelated to demon invasions. The impact of said invasion will be tenfold with the right storytelling. I'm not really interested in having a brainless action game anymore. Also. No need to be military crap. I'm so sick of hearing stuff like "HQ WANTS YOU AT THE LZ ASAP!". Show some depth, some heart. Then take it away in a brutal invasion.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
I'm at a crossroads here. On the one hand I enjoyed Far Cry 3, but on the other hand that game still suffers from the sandbox plague. And what's that? Well. Driving around the Island and fucking about is too unorchestrated. It's too random and feels detached from the story portion of the game. Compare this game to Rage where things are too orchestrated. It's extremely difficult to pull off, but I'd really like to see something in between. I'd like free roaming, but directed missions. Some kind of FPS version of Mass Effect's Ship/Mission would be nice. Anyway. If vehicles/etc. compliments the structure of the game (like in Far Cry 1) then I'm all for them. If they don't (Like in Quake 4), then please leave them out. NPC interaction? Yes please. Let me decide what to say and who to talk to/help. It doesn't need to be bioware dialogue tree of "death", but if there are NPCs I want to interact with them, not just stand around and listen to their boring monologues.

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
Something like Doom2's original arsenal would be great. Somewhat contemporary weapons (not replicas of real guns) with the odd futuristic (experimental?) weapon.

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
I think they should definitely try to nail the original style. The balance of getting it just right without resorting to "cartoonish" or watering the design down into generic grey is extremely difficult, but it's important that a new Doom game looks like a Doom game. If it doesn't, make a new IP instead.

How should multiplayer be handled?
I really see this as something taking a backseat to the single player. I don't have much to say here.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
I'd love to see something that combines somewhat realistic looking streets with awesome sci-fi underground bases, towers what have you. Free roaming in a city/forest/desert and then missions where you go down into a complex (for instance), but not short worthless Rage missions that last 5 minutes. Something like what we saw in SC2 HotS would be nice.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?More dynamic options. Rage was a static backdrop. If they go the semi-sandbox route, then let's have the works with dynamic weather, cycles, etc.

What should be the approach to sound design?
As important as it is the game looks like a Doom game, as important it is that it sounds like a Doom game. Base the monster/weapon sounds on the originals without simply using them. Again, a very hard job.

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
I'd personally love to have a base of operations and huge firefights, but not all the time.

How much emphasis should Hell have?
The place? I think it's important that the environment changes throughout the game so it's not 12 hours of city. Hell could help twist the environment and even provide some more classic play later in the game.

Old Post 04-17-13 18:36 #
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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2686
Registered: 07-02


You made some great points, especially in regards to building up the invasion instead of throwing you in the middle if it. I haven't played Rage or Farcry, but I can understand how easy it can be to screw up gameplay elements that are not central to the game (such as driving). I did recommend answers consisting of three or less sentences, but I won't enforce it because it's really just for the benefit of those who don't want to read lengthy responses. I kind of agree on the monster designs matching the original. If Internet fan art has been any indication, it's perfectly possible to contemporize the classic designs.

Old Post 04-17-13 20:35 #
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GoatLord
I really should think before I post.


Posts: 2686
Registered: 07-02


You made some great points, especially in regards to building up the invasion instead of throwing you in the middle if it. I haven't played Rage or Farcry, but I can understand how easy it can be to screw up gameplay elements that are not central to the game (such as driving). I did recommend answers consisting of three or less sentences, but I won't enforce it because it's really just for the benefit of those who don't want to read lengthy responses. I kind of agree on the monster designs matching the original. If Internet fan art has been any indication, it's perfectly possible to contemporize the classic designs.

Old Post 04-17-13 20:42 #
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scifista42
Senior Member


Posts: 2318
Registered: 05-12


A little bump. Come on people and share your thoughts, it is so beautiful to dream... :)

Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
While I'd be happy if the story was based on the Doom2's, I think id would better not recycle it exactly, keeping references to Doom 2 to a minimum. In one sentence - just don't exaggerate it like Duke Nukem Forever did.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
I definitely think they have their place in Doom, since - it is Doom. Satanistic imagery, if used in gripping moments to complement overall unknown extradimensional forces, would amazingly add to the atmosphere. In original Doom, if you think about that, demonic stuff also isn't overused, but the developers used it to create an atmosphere - at least we must admit they tried.

How much emphasis should there be on story?
Rather low, since Doom is (should be) oriented primarily on another things. No need for interesting twists, side stories, elaborated psychology of characters etc. If they decided to go this way, I'd take it as a bonus to the shooting fun - if the story will disturb me from that, then I'd lament.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
I'd be more satisfied to not see these in Doom 4 in large scale - driveable vehicles just don't fit, however if they'd perform them well and in an interesting way, I wouldn't complain. Destructible environment in minimal measure. Also, they might come up with they own new features, that are derived (not copied, but even that is standable) from old Doom game mechanics - like secrets, secret levels, Invulspheres ;)

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
Speaking about one specific example - I'd like to see a wooden shotgun similar to the classic one, for the satisfaction from using it to kill classic-like imps (sorry for overtaking a little). In general, I'd prefer a contrast of (mostly low-power) archaic vs. (mostly high-power) futuristic weapons, like it was in classic games too.

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
Again, I would be really grateful for naked creatures with (dark-)brown skin, horns growing from different body parts, not necesarrily red eyes, human-like legs and arms with which they're throwing fireballs at you, and with just the health to be killed by one shotgun shot from quite a distance. Yeah, I'd definitely prefer returning to the classic style - while modifications making them look horrific would be cool too. But I realise how difficult it'd be to perform such modifications well.

How should multiplayer be handled?
Online coop support and additional built-in deathmatch maps that don't lag. These might try to emulate "classic level design style" by their abstraction, height variation and mechanics - but this is just wishful thinking.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
Nonlinear, with low attention to graphics and realism and greater attention to fun gameplay, sized to take you 15-60 min each, depending on how thoroughly you want to explore it.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?
All graphical features, physics, light effects and impressive environmental changes aside, I don't rely on them. The engine must be able to handle many awakened enemies on the scene and not only on the scene but also moving around the map elsewhere.

What should be the approach to sound design?
Monster sounds not necesarrily based on the classic sounds, maybe it'd be even better to avoid it and make it rather more horrific. Using realistic and/or moody (in any case, appropriate) ambient sounds *might* (to some extent) compensate lacks in graphics, which (lacks in graphics) I personally wouldn't mind either way.

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
Yes, NPCs should definitely make appearance and interact with the player, but only sometimes. And the word "assistance" is important - the player should be forced to cooperate with them, not that they do all the job for you (a la Sentry bot - well, *most* of the job) or do needless job (a la scientist with a lantern). In addition, there may of course be people who give you something valuable, or people just desperately trying to survive and WHOSE YOU CAN SAVE (in D3 and RoE they kind of overincluded people dying in front of your eyes while you cannot do anything, and I didn't like that).

How much emphasis should Hell have?
Well-worked aesthetically amazing environment looking abstract and like something that might have come from another dimension, and is continuously growing bigger and bigger and taking control over everything on Earth. The presence of Hell must be something which will make Doom 4 distinguishable from other FPSs, in the sense of design and atmosphere and ideally also gameplay.

I also expressed my expectations about Doom 4 (or ideal Doom remake, in fact it means nearly the same for me) here.

Old Post 05-08-13 00:13 #
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Captain Red
Pants


Posts: 5415
Registered: 06-01


Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
I don't see any advantage to sticking with the original doom's 'cannon' other then it maybe discouraging messing with the monster and weapons designs (not that is stopped raven from messing with quake 4). Start fresh I say.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
I'm one of those people who loves it when video game developers work in actual references to history and mythology into there aesthetics, particularly when it's wired, obscure stuff. So if they can find some bizarre piece of German folklore about demons that could be worked into a cool setting or set piece I say go hog wild, otherwise, I'd want just enough to say that "yup, these are demons from hell, not aliens or mutants"

How much emphasis should there be on story?
A simple, non intrusive story told mostly through environmental details and asset design. Like the way half-life 2 gives hints about how fucked the world actually is with things like news paper clippings on the wall, signs of a mass evacuation of populated areas, beached boats and wrecked cars, ect. No actual exposition dumps by NPCs or mission briefings thanks.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
I just don't see things like vehicles and Turret sections working in a game that wants to feel anything like doom. I could take or leave alternate fire and iron sights (they worked for Rage) a quick grenade button would be cool, as would portable med kits. Health regeneration can fuck off though.

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
I'd want to see both of the original doom shotguns to basically be remade both aesthetically and in function. Other then that... well, I'd rather they just keep the guns somewhat contemporary looking, as the attempt to make them futuristic in doom 3 just made them look more like toys then the guns in the original doom (which where, ironically, digitized photos of toy guns)

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
I want to see the old gang :3. Rendered in glorious hi poly models by professional artists. With a few new faces as well.

How should multiplayer be handled?
*shrug* multiplayer's not my scene. As long as I'm not cut off from extra content (say, multiplayer exclusive weapons or abilities) I don't really care.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
I have a fetish for seeing mundane, functional looking places torn up by violence and decay. See STALKER (or, you know, the actual exclusion zone in Chernobyl) for examples. in terms of layout, I think Shaviro's comments about following Far Cry 1's model are pretty much inline with my own.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?
the potential for large numbers of Demons that react to being shot they way raiders and mutants did in Rage and Less static environments then rage are the only things I think this game really needs from the engine.

What should be the approach to sound design?
Any chance Aubrey Hodges could make the soundtrack? Probably not, but it's fun to dream. :)

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
Absolutely not.

How much emphasis should Hell have?
A fair bit as the Hell levels in the newer doom games have been where we've seen the best stuff from id's mappers. [/B]

Old Post 05-08-13 07:21 #
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Clusterone666
Mini-Member


Posts: 85
Registered: 08-08


Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
In my opinion, Doom 4 should draw from hell on earth, but also create it's own story, while sticking to it's roots.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
It should be a 90% emphasis, doom 1, and 2 were all about demonic symbols and everything else, and to be quite honest, I want Doom 4 to be that way as well.

How much emphasis should there be on story?
Not really much, On earth, world gets taken over by demons and badasses, you are a retired marine, you get a shotgun, and blow demons apart.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
I think there should be alternate fire for each weapon, maybe a vehicle to get around the city, definetly have destructible enviroments, and not just scripted ones, and have health packs to be used when wanted.

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
They should stick with the basics of doom 1 and 2 imo.

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
Old and new, but all the old ones there, couple new ones thrown in. The monsters should be demonic, and scary as hell. Something you would never want to run into.

How should multiplayer be handled?
Just like the first 2 dooms. Run and gun.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
The maps should be like the original doom 2, maze like, and destroyed.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?
Not quite sure at this point till I see a picture or two of the engine's capabilities.

What should be the approach to sound design?
Something that makes players have goosebumps, and makes them look around from time to time.

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
Honestly no, you should be the lone marine, yeah there could be survivors, but they would be to terrified to do anything.

How much emphasis should Hell have?
Again, 90%, doom 1 and 2 are all about hell, and hell on earth.

As you can tell I want it to stay true to the first 2. :P

Old Post 06-06-13 08:15 #
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Face23785
Member


Posts: 275
Registered: 04-11


Should Doom 4 base itself on Doom 2, craft a new story, or a combination?
Craft a new story. As epic as Doom 2's original story is, I don't see any way they'll pull it off without fucking it up.

How much emphasis should there be on demonic aesthetics?
Alot. However, as was said earlier, I don't think it should be exclusively Christian/Western demonic imagery.

How much emphasis should there be on story?
I liked what they did in Doom 3. There was actually a lot of backstory buried in the PDAs. It was interesting and creepy finding out little details as the game progressed. But for those who don't care about story, they didn't need to bother with it. Something done in this manner would be great.

How much emphasis should there be on modern features such as alternate fire, vehicles, destructible environments, NPC interaction, inventory items, etc.?
Very little. NPC interaction should be kept to a minimum, no vehicles, alt fire I'm ok with on a few weapons but if every weapon HAS to have it it feels too gimmicky.

How futuristic or archaic should the weapons be?
I thought the original games and D3 had a great balance of old-school projectile weapons and new-age energy weapons. Stick with it.

New monsters, old monsters, or a mix; and should they follow the art direction of the classic games?
New monsters should only be introduced if they've already included the old cast and still need more depth. Otherwise it feels like not getting everything you wanted for Christmas just because they wanted you to feel surprised.

How should multiplayer be handled?
Couldn't care less about it. As long as they don't compromise the single player campaign to implement it, go ahead and put it in.

How linear, complex and realistic should the maps be?
Not very, very, and very. I loved how they actually went through the trouble of designing a realistic station for Doom 3; they just blocked off too much of it. Dead Space is another great example of a functional design.

What are your expectations concerning the engine's capabilities?
Graphics and physics that are realistic enough to be immersive but not hyper-realistic and annoying.

What should be the approach to sound design?
I second the motion for Aubrey Hodges.

Should the player receive NPC assistance during the campaign?
Assistance no. Minimal NPC appearances. No bots, no teams. Part of the original feel of Doom was the isolation, that last man standing, you against the world feeling. Keep it.

How much emphasis should Hell have?
Everyone else has pretty much covered this. None at first, but slowly descending into it throughout the game. Total chaos in the last quarter of the game.

Old Post 06-06-13 14:28 #
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