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Use3D
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Quick question, will creatures in a cloned sector out in the void waken when the player is firing in the original sector? I'd like to do a teleportation trap but there's not much room for a sound pipe. I think this will work but I wanted to check here first. Thanks!

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Old Post 02-05-03 22:24 #
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rf`
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Always try first.

And, yes it does.

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Old Post 02-05-03 22:33 #
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Enjay
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I've been doing teleporting monsters that way for years. Dunno why so many people still insist on using the "sound pipe" method. Just remember to not make your monsters deaf. :-)

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Old Post 02-05-03 22:43 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Remember that sound pipes can be 2 units wide and 1 unit high, so there should be some room for one that size (unless you're really cramped for space)

I don't use them now I've switched to ZDoom, I use TeleportGroup instead.
Old Post 02-05-03 23:03 #
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Fredrik
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Sound pipes = extra lines = redundant.
Old Post 02-05-03 23:16 #
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Use3D
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I got used to the pipe cause my old editor can't clone sectors, piece of crud. So in this map there are two types of teleporting traps, the pipe kind and the cloned kind :P Thanks guys!

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Old Post 02-05-03 23:37 #
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Danarchy
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Hmm...I never knew you could do that. Interesting...I'll have to try that out.

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Old Post 02-05-03 23:59 #
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the_Danarchist said:
Hmm...I never knew you could do that. Interesting...I'll have to try that out.

It's just dummy sectors connecting unconnected sectors. :P

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Old Post 02-06-03 01:07 #
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Danarchy
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Well I don't know shit about dummy sectors. :P I only started mapping 6 months ago.

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Old Post 02-06-03 10:13 #
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zarkyb
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the_Danarchist said:
Well I don't know shit about dummy sectors. :P I only started mapping 6 months ago.


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Old Post 02-06-03 11:09 #
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Danarchy
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oH gnO!!!1

Heh...I'll figure it out eventualy. At the moment, I have a project to work on.

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Old Post 02-06-03 11:11 #
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Dummy sectors are sectors whose lines reffer to another sector, thus becoming one sector. It just doesn't look connected until you look at the sectors.

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Old Post 02-06-03 20:22 #
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Danarchy
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Oh heh. I've done that before by accident. Like for instance, in my latest map, I had this one hallway sector and I decided to put lit section in it. When I was done, the lit sections were their own sectors, but the hallway sector was just one sector even though it was now divided up.

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Old Post 02-06-03 20:25 #
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GMan
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Hmm. I've done that before, too, but I don't think it's quite the same thing.
For the lights to be true dummy sectors, all the linedefs would need to reference the same sector front and back. So, say you had created 2 light sectors normally, and the lights were labelled sector 2 and 3 and the corridor sector 1. The linedefs of the all light areas would need to reference sector 2 on the front and back, rather than 1 on the front and 2 on the back. This would also effectively delete sector 3.
I think that makes sense...:p
Old Post 02-08-03 11:32 #
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Danarchy
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Yeah, what ev. I'm pretty sure I know how it works now though, and I'll try it next time I need to make a spawn trap. :P

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Old Post 02-09-03 23:57 #
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DOOM Anomaly
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Enjay said:
I've been doing teleporting monsters that way for years. Dunno why so many people still insist on using the "sound pipe" method. Just remember to not make your monsters deaf. :-)
Yes, but then there are some of us who don't even know how to make sound pipes. :P

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Old Post 02-10-03 00:02 #
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rf`
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the_Danarchist said:
Yeah, what ev. I'm pretty sure I know how it works now though, and I'll try it next time I need to make a spawn trap. :P

You can use them for more than just spawn traps. Try having a sector move to a certain height which isnt the same as any other sectors around it. Just make a dummy sector with another sector to that dummy and have a line set to floor lower to nearest.

That, and you can use them for making 'instant lifts' and bridges in doom.exe.

I know this isn't even half of it, but it's a few.

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Old Post 02-10-03 00:14 #
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Cacodreams
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Let me see if I understood: cloned sectors and dummy sectors are the same thing? Is a cloned sector a sector with the same number (I mean, the number that represents a sector in an editor) as another one, even if they are not connected, so the shot noise would be heard by the monsters in the second sector? Excuse my ignorance, but I want to learn that to make spawn traps without resorting to sound pipes...

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Old Post 02-11-03 05:11 #
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Biffy
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I think you are correct about what a cloned sector is, really a sector in two or more separate "pieces". Don't know exactly what people mean about a dummy sector.

I've found this to work also....say you are playing in sector #1 and have monsters off somewhere in sector #2. If you have a line somewhere in sector #2 which you change the reference, either front or back, to sector #1, the sounds from sector #1 can wake up monsters in sector #2, no matter how far away. I believe that monsters will then attempt to walk toward the player's actual position, not toward that re-assigned line. A scrolling floor in sector #2 can be useful to help in controlling how well monsters cross over teleport lines.

Some editors will show a "sector not closed" error if you do that line reassignment thing, so a true cloned sector might be best.
Old Post 02-11-03 14:31 #
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Enjay
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As I see it, a cloned sector is as you describe. Actually 2 parts of the same sector, but divided into 2 (or more) distinct areas. Ie, all the sidedefs facing into the sector have the same sector reference. These are the type of sectors that allow monsters in one to hear the player in another. Distance may, or may not be a factor. If the player area is very far from the cloned area sound may not travel that far????


Dummy sectors have a wider definition. To my way of thinking, a dummy sector would be a small sector out in the void used to set the height of a liquid for a boom style deep water effect, or a transfer light levels effect.

Heh, and I would probably class a cloned sector that is being used (in Zdoom) to slope a sector in the main play area because it is impossible to put a sector to match heights against in the main play area as a cloned dummy sector. o_O

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Old Post 02-11-03 14:38 #
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chopkinsca
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DOOM Anomaly said:
Yes, but then there are some of us who don't even know how to make sound pipes. :P


and furthermore, some of us don't even know what a sound pipe is..

I used dummy sectors in deepsea before, sort of. used it to make new sectors..
*everyone laughs as sucky map making skills*

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Old Post 02-11-03 20:53 #
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Biffy
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It's just a very thin sector connecting two other sectors.

Copy and paste sectors? Useful sometimes.
Old Post 02-12-03 03:56 #
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Cacodreams
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I made some test maps and that theory about the two parts of a same sector (cloned sector) worked. Indeed the monster hears the shot in the other part of the sector, and no matter how far you place it, Enjay. Thx guys!

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Old Post 02-13-03 05:49 #
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nobbjob
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is there a way to edit sector numbers in wadauthor? i've never bothered asking this, so i've used the traditional 'connecting tunnel' technique.
Old Post 02-13-03 06:34 #
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Brad_tilf
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you don't edit the "sector" number. you edit the lines in the sector.
so, say you have two sectors (like you cloned 1 and now you have 2 separate sectors). now you want them to show as a single sector (like for the monster awakening reason perhaps). change the linedef reference so that the sector number they point to is the original sector. If all the lines are 1 sided then you have now recreated sector x.
If you have some 2 sided lines simply change the reference on both sides

As far as dummy sectors go - you can do some very cool stuff with those and in fact, some effects could not be accomplished at all without them. For instance, in Momento Mori - there is a door that you can see through. I repeated this in Bloodworks and the effect requires the use of dummy sectors. As a matter of fact, most 3d effects that are created without the use of a port editor and even those used with a port editor require dummy sectors. in Zdoom the deep water effect requires dummy sectors as does the effect of doors that open sideways.
I also created a post that extends out of the wall so in essence you see empty space above and below the post. Hanging from this is one of the tortured dude sprites. In order to create that effect you have a bunch of lines that create the post but there is no actual sector there. A dummy sector needed to be created with the ceiling height of the dummy sector matching up with the post. The tortured dude is actually hanging from a sector you can't even see in essence.

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Old Post 02-13-03 22:56 #
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