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QuipFrok
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 08-04
Man what an editor this could be!

For me though it has a few problems.
Textures...I can place them in the 3D mode but they don't appear in the game. Some do and some don't. Can't tell which or why.

Things...place a supershotgun but in the game it's not there.

Configuration needs lots of sprucing. For instance...How am I to know that I need to put zdoom in my heretic folder if I want to build and run a heretic map and not have the doomguy's gun and hand in the map?

I have spent an hour or so fooling with all the configs and I can't run any map unless I choose zdoom. jdoom? Forget it.

The fellow that does this program should spend a lot of time on the configuartion issues AND have a quality FAQ not one that looks like it was a bother.


What good is Freeware when there are so many issues?


Don't think I don't appreciate the editor..I do. It just needs lotsa work.

I think there are alot of system specific incompatiblitys as well.


I'd like to hear from you guys on what I wrote. I have an open mind and if I'm missing something or lotsa somethings I'd like to know

Quip Frok
Old Post 08-21-04 01:39 #
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AgentSpork
Agent Spork is a resourceful agent for the Country


Posts: 2126
Registered: 09-02
Heh, Doom Builder is one of the least buggy editors out there.

Uhm.. I don't know what to tell you about your texture/things problems besides: Are you playing your map in Doom 2 or Doom 1? Doom 1 doesn't have a supershotgun, so that wouldn't appear if you placed one in there. Same thing goes for textures.

Also, make sure you set your Files up right in options. For example:

code:

Doom:  Doom.wad
Doom 2: Doom2.wad
Heretic: Heretic.wad
Legacy: Doom2.wad
ZDoom (Doom in Hexen Format): Doom2.wad
Etc..

Old Post 08-21-04 02:41 #
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MasterOFDeath
Member


Posts: 577
Registered: 03-04
I hate doom builder, it drives me insane. www.sbsoftware.com DeePsea is good, but its shareware...
Old Post 08-21-04 04:24 #
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Chris Hansen
(used to be c-cooper)


Posts: 423
Registered: 05-02
QuipFrok said:
What good is Freeware when there are so many issues?


I think that comment is way off! If it's freeware you can expect certain difficulties and because it is freeware you're not entitled to expect the author to support every minor issue. And some of the things you mention can't be DB's problem. Like the one with the SS... I never experienced something like that! I'm betting you're misunderstanding something here.

DoomBuilder is the best thing to have happened to the classic Doom editing community for ages!
Old Post 08-21-04 08:32 #
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Amaster
Artificial Mechanical Android Skilled in Troubleshooting and Efficient Repair


Posts: 3563
Registered: 04-02
A lot of the issues you describe sound more like mapping errors than programming errors. For instance, are you sure you're not setting your weapons with the multiplayer flags?

I personally dont use doombuilder that often, since I prefer Wadauthor. But it is indeed a good editing program.

It may also be possible that you have some system specific issues. I've never heard of anyone else having some of these problems.
Old Post 08-21-04 08:47 #
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boris
meow


Posts: 3743
Registered: 05-00
Yeah, those are clearly user errors :)
Old Post 08-21-04 09:41 #
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CodeImp
Moderator


Posts: 1461
Registered: 12-03
RTFM. John Anderson didnt write that 146-page Doom Builder manual for you to ignore.
Old Post 08-21-04 11:00 #
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QuipFrok
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 08-04
AgentSpork said:
Heh, Doom Builder is one of the least buggy editors out there.[/code]


It maybe that. Ten years ago I was using DCK and DoomCad. They weren't near as buggy as DB. So, compared with todays curret editors
that may very well be the case. DB is the only one of the current crop I've tried.

>Uhm.. I don't know what to tell you about your texture/things >problems besides: Are you playing your map in Doom 2 or Doom 1? Doom >1 doesn't have a supershotgun, so that wouldn't appear if you placed >one in there. Same thing goes for textures.

Your tip led me to solve my problem. I can only get this editor to compile if I use zdoom or glzdoom. I was using the zdoom I had in my Doom folder. I extracted zdoom to my doom2 folder and now it's a go. Thanks for the tip.

Quip Frok
Old Post 08-21-04 17:51 #
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QuipFrok
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 08-04
Chris,

My expectations are different than yours. I expect a guy to have enough pride in his project to supply data that will allow it to be easily setup and used. I have built enough different editors:

http://www.coyoterock.net/Inigo/files.htm

to know a good product when I see it. I won't call DB a good product at this time. It's usable. When it quits crashing and displays textures on a consistent basis then I'll call it passable.

As soon as DB is solid I'll recommend it. The 3d view is a very good thing

Quip Frok


Chris Hansen said:


I think that comment is way off! If it's freeware you can expect certain difficulties and because it is freeware you're not entitled to expect the author to support every minor issue. And some of the things you mention can't be DB's problem. Like the one with the SS... I never experienced something like that! I'm betting you're misunderstanding something here.

DoomBuilder is the best thing to have happened to the classic Doom editing community for ages!

Old Post 08-21-04 17:58 #
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QuipFrok
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 08-04
CodeImp said:
RTFM. John Anderson didnt write that 146-page Doom Builder manual for you to ignore.



Why didn't you write it? No one knows more about the program than you.
I find guys that release software than don't take the time to write a help file very lacking.

Years ago I built some levels with QED. The author supplied extensive
help files which were extremely valuble to me. The concepts he laid out to use his editor have served me to this day.

Why you guys are so arrogant and won't support your stuff properly is beyond me. Is it an - I figured it out you figure it out mentality?

There is a lot more you could do.

Anderson I have a lot of respect for. He has made great maps and been a real aid to several communities. You Sir, are No John Anderson.

as evidenced by your "my feelings are hurt you ingrate" reply

Quip Frok

BTW keep working on that editor..It needs it :-)
Old Post 08-21-04 18:08 #
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Graf Zahl
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 7130
Registered: 01-03
And you are an idiot.

You come here, insult the people that put a lot of work in their software and expect helpful assistance. You better shut up and go away before it's too late.
Old Post 08-21-04 18:21 #
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boris
meow


Posts: 3743
Registered: 05-00
Have a look at my fbase6 that comes with Doom Builder. I used DB 0.04 and built it in a week, without any documentation at all so it can't be that hard to use, can it?
Old Post 08-21-04 19:28 #
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CodeImp
Moderator


Posts: 1461
Registered: 12-03
You should know the time and effort John Anderson and I have put in this project, as well as the people credited on this page. But if you think there is a need for yet a better editor... And if you think one man could easily do it all by himself... I suggest you start up a programming enviroment an build a map editor better than mine (and dont you forget a manual as good as John's!). Now let me hear the "i dont have the time" or "i dont have the skill" excuse and fuck off plzktnxbye.
 
Old Post 08-21-04 23:19 #
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Darkhaven
Banned


Posts: 1127
Registered: 07-04
boris said:
Have a look at my fbase6 that comes with Doom Builder. I used DB 0.04 and built it in a week, without any documentation at all so it can't be that hard to use, can it?


That map was yours, Boris? Very cool one, my friend :)

And QuipFrok, Graf Zahl is absolutely right. If you have problems with Doombuilder, why don't you just go back to using DEU and do things the harder way, just like all those Doomers did back in '94? Then maybe you will see what it's like to use a difficult editor. And before you go firing off on me, I know what it's all about, I use DETH and DEU most, if not all the time.

EDIT: Wow, I didn't think I would be able to do that without at least swearing 3 or more times. :P
Old Post 08-21-04 23:30 #
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cyber-menace
Forum Regular


Posts: 922
Registered: 03-03
Darkhaven said:
EDIT: Wow, I didn't think I would be able to do that without at least swearing 3 or more times. :P

I'm trying to resist that temtation at this point.

[speech]
Excuse me Mr. I'm gonna be negative to this piece of crap programmer because I can't use his program properly... but have you ever thought the problem might be YOU! YES YOU! NOT THE PROGRAM! YOU! You OBVIOUSLY were doing something stupid and then you naturally blamed it on the program. CodeImp has gone through an unbelivable amount of time making his editor as up-to-date and easy to use as possible. Besides EVERYTHING HAS ERRORS! Doom Builder doesn't have any problems when I use it. Why? Because I know how to map. I've used WinDEU, Deepsea, WadAuthor, and Doom Builder and DB is by far the best at this point.

So next time you're having problems with a program, don't bitch at the programmer. The problem is likely your fault.
[/speech]
Old Post 08-22-04 01:06 #
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sgtcrispyII
Newbie


Posts: 6
Registered: 08-04
QuipFrok said:
Why didn't you write it? No one knows more about the program than you.I find guys that release software than don't take the time to write a help file very lacking.

Spot on my man. "my feeling are hurt" and "free" are no excuse for a proper help system. DB isn't all that original anyway - more like a copy of old ideas - some well done, some poorly.

Graf: you seem awfully quick calling someone an "idiot" when your own comments border on idiocy and insults in other posts. Simply amazing lack of self awareness.

Don't you guys moderate this sort of stuff? Seems to me that's a petty personal attack for absolutely no valid reason. An opinion such as QuipFrok is just his impression. IMO it's more or less correct. Finished programs have a good help system, not some bulky tacked together "how to" manual by somebody else.
Old Post 08-22-04 02:14 #
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CodeImp
Moderator


Posts: 1461
Registered: 12-03
sgtcrispyII, read plz;
CodeImp said:
...if you think there is a need for yet a better editor... And if you think one man could easily do it all by himself... I suggest you start up a programming enviroment an build a map editor better than mine (and dont you forget a manual as good as John's!). Now let me hear the "i dont have the time" or "i dont have the skill" excuse and fuck off plzktnxbye.
Old Post 08-22-04 02:22 #
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Bloodshedder
Spellchecker


Posts: 4569
Registered: 03-02
sgtcrispyII said:
Finished programs have a good help system, not some bulky tacked together "how to" manual by somebody else.
As long as the author knows what he's talking about and is helpful, why does it matter WHO wrote the manual?
Old Post 08-22-04 02:35 #
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Hyena
Unfortunately it is lethal


Posts: 795
Registered: 05-00
Graf Zahl said:
And you are an idiot.

You come here, insult the people that put a lot of work in their software and expect helpful assistance. You better shut up and go away before it's too late.


Bing!
Old Post 08-22-04 02:41 #
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Darkhaven
Banned


Posts: 1127
Registered: 07-04
Bloodshedder said:
As long as the author knows what he's talking about and is helpful, why does it matter WHO wrote the manual?


Damn straight.
Old Post 08-22-04 02:47 #
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Cyb


Posts: 2726
Registered: 07-02
QuipFrok said:
blah blah blah


PEBKAC
Old Post 08-22-04 02:52 #
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insertwackynamehere
The Chewbacca defense gone nightmare


Posts: 3028
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Heh I love DB and never have problems. Oh well, you can't please everyone :D
Old Post 08-22-04 03:02 #
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QuipFrok
Warming Up


Posts: 12
Registered: 08-04
Once I got the config problems ironed out...and figured out what NOT to do. Config needs lotsa work....did I mention that? It is a snappy editor. To be able to do things in 3D mode really elevates it.

Good job on that CodeImp.

QuipFrok
Old Post 08-22-04 03:16 #
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Bloodshedder
Spellchecker


Posts: 4569
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Merging. No new thread was needed.
Old Post 08-22-04 03:32 #
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Use3D
Forum Legend


Posts: 4456
Registered: 04-02
Doom Builder is a huge service to this community, even though I don't use it for mapping, I occasionaly open it up to look at a map or make teeny changes to my own and it has served me well (it's the only editor on this computer, my other computer is the Doom editing machine and I use Deepsea). I've not read a scrap of documentation and picked it up instantly.
Old Post 08-22-04 03:33 #
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Nmn
Man of Rone


Posts: 2107
Registered: 08-03
It somehow seems strange that Codeimp brought us the best editor we could have IMHO and people still manage to moan. Listen-if You don't like it, try another editor. I used to toy around with multiple ones before I found my favourite-Wadauthor (in the past) later replaced by Doom Builder. Get Doomed, DCK or a plain Hex Editor! I believe that only a gorilla couldn't use DB. That is if it tried to read the manual first and some tutorials that can be found easily...

__________________
-N
Old Post 08-22-04 03:35 #
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Darkhaven
Banned


Posts: 1127
Registered: 07-04
I actually got my dog to join two sectors together in DB before (with a little help) :P
Old Post 08-22-04 03:37 #
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Dron
Senior Member


Posts: 1186
Registered: 01-04
i don't understand HOW you can have problems with doombuilder. i've tried mapping with other editors (deepsea) and i could barely figure out how to do anything, but then i downloaded doombuilder and instantly understood how to do everything in it.
Old Post 08-22-04 03:38 #
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Cyb


Posts: 2726
Registered: 07-02
Use3D said:
Doom Builder is a huge service to this community, even though I don't use it for mapping, I occasionaly open it up to look at a map or make teeny changes to my own and it has served me well (it's the only editor on this computer, my other computer is the Doom editing machine and I use Deepsea). I've not read a scrap of documentation and picked it up instantly.


same (except I use wadauthor and not deepsea). the only thing I had to read was how to get the nodes builder configured. everything else is pretty simple.
Old Post 08-22-04 03:44 #
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myk
volveré y seré millones


Posts: 14420
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This is a Forum; you can expect to find posts about issues found when trying programs related to the games dealt with here. In many instances when there's an issue, it's not clear yet to the user if it's on the software, the usage, or the user. So the user often makes an iquisitive (partly positive and partly negative) post. Such issues are easily dealt with by experienced users, who don't need to post like bitches, because they don't really need to drag their personal failures into the Forums, and that's because they are better than that and since they know opinions are not written in stone.
Old Post 08-22-04 03:45 #
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