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Katgut
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Uh, is it just me, or does this version seem to crash more often than 10.20 does? I mean, I've had it crash four times today, when 10.20 has crashed maybe five times over a two-month period.

*Please* tell me you guys are working on fixing these random crashes (and they seriously are random - NO common factors between the four crashes I've had today).

Old Post 10-24-01 07:00 #
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deep
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Uh, is it just me, or does this version seem to crash more often than 10.20 does?
If you really want an answer you should email us and describe your system and what you are doing (like what PWAD, etc):) More than happy to figure out the issue. That goes to anyone.

11.3 has no known problems (if anything, it's much better than 10.20). There are problems in Windows and there are problems in some pwads. I have several testers and they work the hell out of it. If anything, they are pleased with the new release.

Do not run weird background tasks (a few have been known to cause problems - can't help that - some do weird stuff), make sure you have enough physical memory (at least 64mb), enough swap file space, have all the patches applied, run scandisk/defrag and all that stuff.

The other possibility is that you are having hardware problems: Memory problems, that is, defective memory (my 1st guess actually) or overheating (fan failure). Usually people have other odd events going on in their system:)

Btw, once a program "crashes" you need to REBOOT windows since it doesn't FREE handles in use. Meaning that subsequent programs will cause you trouble. Again, that's the way Windows is - XP solves that problem. That goes for any pgm crash!

Old Post 10-24-01 16:54 #
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Lüt
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Hey, as long as you're here: Player 5 starts always give me an invalid thing error. Player 5-8 starts are thing #4000-#4003 in the editor, so I'm guessing it's a misnumbering? I could try placing a thing #4004 just to see, but I'd rather post this message.

Old Post 10-25-01 01:42 #
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deep
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Player 5-8 starts are thing #4000-#4003 in the editor[/quote]The values are 4001 - 4004 in the BOOM, ZDOOM, ZDOOMHEXEN, SKULLTAG, ETERNITY, EDGE & LEGACY default projects as shipped.

Sounds like you made a custom OPT file at some point. Be sure you set the categories and values the same as in the shipped version. Certain settings were changed over time. You may even be missing some new stuff if you are using an old custom file.

Old Post 10-25-01 04:03 #
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deep
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Got that email from "nobody" address from the above (must be if they reply from here), but that address can't be replied to.

Anyway, my guess is that they are drawing lines that exceed the DOOM coordinate values of +/-32k. The lines are 4000+units but that's not a problem (Lut has 7000+ lines in his level). IOW, if you start drawing at coordinate x=32000, y=0 and extend to X=36000, y=0 you have just overflowed the maximum value.

Internally, most things in DeePsea don't care about this, but there may be some places where an 2 byte coordinate value is used. For sure the final PWADt saved has to use the actual size (values) as used by DOOM, in which case the level will not work and/or the nodes will turn to mush.

So if you could please send me the level I can see what you are doing.

Old Post 10-25-01 18:40 #
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Naked Snake
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Deep sucks badly. Plain and simple.

Old Post 10-25-01 22:16 #
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Katgut
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Got that email from "nobody" address from the above (must be if they reply from here), but that address can't be replied to.

Anyway, my guess is that they are drawing lines that exceed the DOOM coordinate values of +/-32k. The lines are 4000+units but that's not a problem (Lut has 7000+ lines in his level). IOW, if you start drawing at coordinate x=32000, y=0 and extend to X=36000, y=0 you have just overflowed the maximum value.

Internally, most things in DeePsea don't care about this, but there may be some places where an 2 byte coordinate value is used. For sure the final PWADt saved has to use the actual size (values) as used by DOOM, in which case the level will not work and/or the nodes will turn to mush.

So if you could please send me the level I can see what you are doing.

Sorry about that, that was my fault.

The lines are definitely still in the legal coordinate space (the furthest they've reached is about +/- 11000), though... and the one level which has the worst set of long lines (a couple of 32k-length lines) is actually the one where the problem occurs the least often.

I'll send all three levels where the problems are occuring sometime in the next couple of days.

Old Post 10-26-01 06:54 #
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Ok - I'll check the levels. In my testing, the long lines don't cause any problem to DeePsea. Overflow just flips directions. However, it -MAY- be an issue with your video driver. It's not the first time a video driver has caused problems. So be sure to get the latest driver(s) (ATI has been notorious in this regard.)

DeePsea clips long lines when zoomed (since Windows will otherwise not draw them - (a 16 bit windows api problem), but there is some overdrawing beyond the actual screen boundaries to make sure they always show up (edge-to-edge).

The 32k line will REALLY cause an issue and won't work. You have to break that one up. Long lines are not a good idea since it brings out drawing and other problems in DOOM (see below).

The longest line should be around 8k. Longer than this and you will also run into BLOCKMAP size problems. Typically, the maximum level dimensions are 16k x 16k and more like 12k x 12k with any amount of detail inside (assuming you are running a newer port that can handle a 128k blockmap - otherwise it's about 1/2 that).

I'm interested in seeing what your startup modules are via MSCONFIG. Also press ctrl+alt+del and tell me what tasks are running. Also what exactly is the error message you are getting?

Did you play test any of the ports and then edit? Some of the ports will mess up your system after you play them - especially if the large blockmap is not supported:)

What happens from a clean boot: NO other programs have run (no IE, no email, IOW nothing) and NO DOOM testing. If you have anti-virus software, temporarily turn it off too.

11.3 is 11.2 with an integrated linedef dialog for faster editing. Other than that, the code is the same. There's always the possiblity you did something I'm not thinking of and need to make allowance for:)

Thanks

Old Post 10-26-01 18:06 #
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Katgut
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Ok - I'll check the levels. In my testing, the long lines don't cause any problem to DeePsea. Overflow just flips directions. However, it -MAY- be an issue with your video driver. It's not the first time a video driver has caused problems. So be sure to get the latest driver(s) (ATI has been notorious in this regard.)


That's an idea - aside from that the newer ATI drivers for my video setup are LESS stable than the older ones. Dunno why.


DeePsea clips long lines when zoomed (since Windows will otherwise not draw them - (a 16 bit windows api problem), but there is some overdrawing beyond the actual screen boundaries to make sure they always show up (edge-to-edge).

The 32k line will REALLY cause an issue and won't work. You have to break that one up. Long lines are not a good idea since it brings out drawing and other problems in DOOM (see below).

The longest line should be around 8k. Longer than this and you will also run into BLOCKMAP size problems. Typically, the maximum level dimensions are 16k x 16k and more like 12k x 12k with any amount of detail inside (assuming you are running a newer port that can handle a 128k blockmap - otherwise it's about 1/2 that).


Actually, ZDoom seems to handle it perfectly well. Dunno what Randy did to the blockmap code to let it work with massive blockmaps (>128k). Ditto with the 32k line. I presume it's being broken up into several shorter segs, plus it's not visible anyway (it's just the bounding area to sky).


I'm interested in seeing what your startup modules are via MSCONFIG. Also press ctrl+alt+del and tell me what tasks are running. Also what exactly is the error message you are getting?


Okay, it's a page fault, *supposedly* in the program, at 0167:00405c33 (thank goodness for having VC++ installed). However, this seems to be a common location for page faults in most programs. Dunno why.

There's no consistency between what tasks are running when crashes occur, although (oddly) it seems like the more tasks there are, the harder it is to get it to crash. Again, dunno why.



Did you play test any of the ports and then edit? Some of the ports will mess up your system after you play them - especially if the large blockmap is not supported:)



Never had a chance to playtest it, aside from with ZDoom, and I usually quit DeepSea first. Go figure.


What happens from a clean boot: NO other programs have run (no IE, no email, IOW nothing) and NO DOOM testing. If you have anti-virus software, temporarily turn it off too.

11.3 is 11.2 with an integrated linedef dialog for faster editing. Other than that, the code is the same. There's always the possiblity you did something I'm not thinking of and need to make allowance for:)

Thanks


Haven't had a chance to try a clean boot - and there's a fair number of things that come up even with a clean standard boot (holding Ctrl during the boot). I don't particularly want to have to go into safe mode to find out whether or not that's the only place it works.

Old Post 10-27-01 04:53 #
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deep
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On the blockmap:

Randy said he was going to -ignore- it -someday- (I asked him about making it support > 64kb), but I don't think he's done that yet. I can use Lut's level to verify. IIRC, last time I checked (a few months ago) it crashed ZDOOM (and that blockmap was under 128kb since Randy did not change the code to support >64kb). I think you just lucked out. It depends where you are:)

EDIT1: ZDOOM is now OK, Randy is ignoring the BLOCKMAP. Tested Lut's level plus I added 22k long lines forcing the blockmap over 132kb. That means the BLOCKMAP is now not really needed for ZDOOM and can save some space:) Will need to test a -0- length and see if that's ok.

EDIT2: Yup, the BLOCKMAP can be -0- length.

As an aside, you can't have a blockmap > 128kb (for ports that still need a blockmap) since the internal format does not support that. If you use DeePBSP it will warn you of the problem. Some node builders don't pay attention, but what you get is not a valid blockmap, plus it also may cause other problems.


That's an idea - aside from that the newer ATI drivers for my video setup are LESS stable than the older ones. Dunno why.
So you do have ATI drivers - I was just giving an example. For being the biggest video supplier they sure have a lot of driver problems/


Never had a chance to playtest it, aside from with ZDoom, and I usually quit DeepSea first. Go figure.
You mean you DID playtest it then using ZDOOM? Don't even play ZDOOM. There is something in ZDOOM that can cause problems. Most people can't tell right away, but there are a few that have a desktop problem when they exit (like me).


Haven't had a chance to try a clean boot - and there's a fair number of things that come up even with a clean standard boot
There's actually very few. I think there are like 3 or 4 tasks on a standard 98 install (when you press ctrl+alt+del). For example, one user had a keyboard task that interfered with the keyboard mapping. It's happened more than once that an added app has caused problems.

Old Post 10-27-01 06:35 #
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Naked Snake
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Deep sucks badly. Plain and simple.


Hmm...I remeber saying this...but...I dont remeber why. Oh! Cause its TRUE!

Old Post 10-27-01 09:15 #
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NiGHTMARE
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You're not hard, you're not funny, you're just annoying and stupid. Go away.

Old Post 10-27-01 15:11 #
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Lüt
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The values are 4001 - 4004 in the BOOM, ZDOOM, ZDOOMHEXEN, SKULLTAG, ETERNITY, EDGE & LEGACY default projects as shipped.
OK, got it. I did have an old OPT with Millennium support, but it was made from a version of DeeP97. I've started a fresh one based on the 11.1 OPT.

I did run out of things and categories though, but I got rid of the two sounds and push/pull controllers and combined some other groups of items so they fit into the 10 categories. One thing I noticed that was strange was that the first category appears under "enemies" in the middle of the list, and the rest of them appear at the bottom of the list. As far as I can tell, there's no reason for it to do that, but I'm probably missing something as usual. I never saw a way to put the list in a certain order though.

Old Post 10-27-01 19:48 #
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deep
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One thing I noticed that was strange was that the first category appears under "enemies" in the middle of the list,
To keep the OPT file simpler (meaning I didn't have to delete a bunch of existing entries), that "hole" is there so a new ZDOOM/HEXEN category -Specials- appeared where I wanted it. IOW, the first new category always appears there:)

Next release has 5 more new categories in Things. Along with new -0- size blockmap for ZDOOM and some other things. Interestingly your old -too big blockmap- level will now work in ZDOOM.

Old Post 10-28-01 19:11 #
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Lüt
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To keep the OPT file simpler (meaning I didn't have to delete a bunch of existing entries), that "hole" is there so a new ZDOOM/HEXEN category -Specials- appeared where I wanted it. IOW, the first new category always appears there:)
Aha, alrighty then. I was thinking I was missing some weird line where it tells what order they come in, but I looked through the file and didn't see anything like that, so... yeah.

Old Post 10-29-01 06:02 #
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