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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

... or not, as the case may be.

Well, I have my first mockup of how I want my editor to be, plus some details...

Check it, and let me know what you think , in this forum rather than e-mail -- I'd rather this be an open discussion, and I'd like you to hurl questions at me about it.

Also, I have a few new ideas for neat features for this editor, and I'd be willing to tell them here, if you want to hear - I'd like to know if only I think they're good ideas... and, yes, Jack - you may get some more inspiration from these.

I'd tell them here, but I don't want to type so much if nobody's interested ;)

Anyway, let me know... k?

11-06-01 19:02 #

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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

Oh, and a point I maybe forgot to mention: THIS EDITOR IS NOWHERE NEAR COMPLETE.

I'm getting feedback about this mocked up interface pic, and when I've come to a happy medium that appeases to most/all of the WadEd users (The target audience), then I'll work on learning C.... from where I am, right down on the ground, so to speak.

You've got a wait, yet, but your patience will be rewarded... trust me on this... >:)

11-06-01 19:26 #

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Naked Snake
HAHA I AM A FAG AND I CAN'T CHANGE THIS TITLE ANYMORE

Posts: 11518
Registered: 05-01

If only I made maps I would be excited about this.

11-06-01 19:56 #

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Katgut
Post Out Of Order

Posts: 674
Registered: 05-01

If only I liked WadEd, I would be excited about this.

11-07-01 07:17 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 11980
Registered: 05-00

If only you two weren't so retarded, this would have been a good thread.

Now then... without reading that entire page, I'd say it looks yummy so far. Obviously you'll have a resizable grid and an option to view things as crosshairs, so no need for extra comments/suggestions from me ;)

11-07-01 11:30 #

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deep
as in Deepsea

Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01

Don't think it's a good idea for me to critique in detail. Seems some "dumbass" always wants to twist things - not in the mood for that right now. The shortest safe (is there such a thing) comments I can think of right now are:

Do the mockup for ZDOOM/HEXEN stuff - even THINGS have way more complications than DOOM (see specials).

Nice design look, personally I don't think it will be efficient (for many reasons - suggest you do a # of actions required analysis - start with map scrolling - sounds very tedious), but that's obviously your choice. Make sure the elements you are thinking of can be done - like resized tabbed dialogs.

WHaLE - Nice name:)

11-07-01 18:34 #

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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

Heh, nice rescue there, L�t and Jack. Damn thread turned superlame...

Anyway;

Don't think it's a good idea for me to critique in detail. Seems some "dumbass" always wants to twist things

Hmmm... that a dig at the fact that I misunderstood your intentions regarding the last WadEd mockup?

Well, that won't happen this time. I'm older, smarter, and actually have some respect for you this time, Jack! j/k

Fire away, don't mind me - I'm after criticism here, not sycophantic praise. Well, not this time, anyway ;)

Although, I'd prefer it to be constructive, you understand ;)

Do the mockup for ZDOOM/HEXEN stuff - even THINGS have way more complications than DOOM (see specials).

I'm fully aware of this, and I'm working on it. I'm trying to keep a familiar (To WadEd users, at least) interface that still has all the things there. Might be hard.

start with map scrolling - sounds very tedious

Actually, this works out less tedious than scrollbars - I remember such a function being used on the DRAW program on the Acorn Archimedes - although it was RMB in the scroll bar, instead. Still, I'd rather scroll this way than seperate scrollbars, OR the existing WadEd arrows. Pluse, my preffered way of scrolling in WadEd - the arrow keys themselves - will remain functional.

Make sure the elements you are thinking of can be done - like resized tabbed dialogs.

Heh, ATM nothing will resize at all. I'm wrestling around with C++ Builder - actually contemplating moving to Visual C++ instead, which might be a much better choice actually.

Obviously you'll have a resizable grid and an option to view things as crosshairs, so no need for extra comments/suggestions from me ;)

Of course, a resizable grid will be an option. View things as crosshairs? I have no idea what you mean, please elaborate.

Anyway, I have some neat features planned, which will most likely be very easy to implement.

And now for some good(ish) news -- Matt Ayres actually <b>replied</b> (Shock, horror) to an e-mail of mine, and he's releasing the WadEd source... which was done in QBasic (Ack), if anybody were to pick up the pieces and stick them in VB or something...

I'll keep you posted...

11-10-01 16:04 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 11980
Registered: 05-00

View things as crosshairs? I have no idea what you mean, please elaborate.

Like in Deep and some other editors, you could view objects as a + sign so you could line them up exactly on a grid.

11-10-01 16:22 #

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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

Oh right, yeah.

I had never seen that, or thought of it. It's on the 'to do list' - with viewing things as sprites (Which BTW will have them standing in a grey circle, so you can see their sizes. Optional, of course.).

Personally, I'd like to see the view-as-sprites mode have the enemies and such actually facing different directions, instead of all screenward.

Good idea? Bad idea? Let me know.

11-10-01 17:25 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 11980
Registered: 05-00

Personally, I'd like to see the view-as-sprites mode have the enemies and such actually facing different directions, instead of all screenward.

If it's as an indicator to which direction the object is actually facing, good idea.

11-10-01 18:24 #

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Espi
M�h.

Posts: 630
Registered: 06-00

Still, I'd rather scroll this way than seperate scrollbars, OR the existing WadEd arrows

I actually like the way WadEd scrolls, with the arrows (not the KB arrowns, the graphical arrows you know).

Oh and nice to hear the author isn't dead or something, and that he's releasing the source.

11-10-01 19:04 #

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deep
as in Deepsea

Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01

. that a dig at the fact that I misunderstood your intentions regarding the last WadEd mockup?

Lol, not at all. Just what seems to happen rather easily in this forum. Pretentions and all that stuff:)

Actually, this works out less tedious than scrollbars

Well compared to that yes. Scrollbars are way tedious. But have you really used DeePsea? DEU and DMAPEDIT (DeePsea incorporates either) have a much easier method. Either just touch the edges or move the mouse to the edge and click. Duck simple, instant scrolling, minimum fuss (regard movement/actions required). Holding both mouse buttons down and just dragging the map might appeal to you too.

As an aside, clicking buttons (you can use the toolbars to do this in DeePsea), turns out to be relatively slow in Windows since it has to go through the Windows message queue. You could bypass this, as I do for a lot of the interactive code - have to or else it runs like a slug:)

..with C++ Builder - actually contemplating moving to Visual C++ instead

Builder makes some conventions much more obvious. Just stay away from Borland only APIs and you can switch any time to any compiler.

-- Matt Ayres ... releasing the WadEd source...

Now that's interesting. But Basic is Basic, only thing different is the same difference that exists between DOS vs Windows pgms. One is "looped", the other is message driven. Basic (no pun intended) algorithms are readily transported. Basic's biggest handicap is inflexiblity (or having to use C routines) to do cool stuff.

11-10-01 20:20 #

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deep
as in Deepsea

Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01

Personally, I'd like to see the view-as-sprites mode have the enemies and such actually facing different directions, instead of all screenward.
If it's as an indicator to which direction the object is actually facing, good idea.

North? South? Is that worth the effort? Processing time is always relevant - sprites obviously take more, but so do circles with arrows. As the average cpu speed increases, more options become feasible. So although right now I use a + inside a sprite, faster speeds now permit that plus an arrow.

11-10-01 20:29 #

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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

Well, the cat is out the bag, and enjoying the fresh air now. Nice.

Lol, not at all. Just what seems to happen rather easily in this forum. Pretentions and all that stuff:)

ARE YOU CALLING ME PRETENTIOUS? I KILL YOU!!!!!!1111 :D
Yeah, it seems that a lot of people here take themselves too seriously....

just touch the edges

That method of scrolling is far worse than being tedious - it can be VERY counterproductive. Example: Drag a selection box around a screenfull of stuff. Chances are, you are going to have to scroll back to it again to see what you are doing.

However, it would make sense to me to have this as AN OPTION, so I will include it.

Now that's interesting. But Basic is Basic

Yeah, but it will probably allow me to release a quick fix, without the limits, because I already know some basic. And WadEd without the limits is basically the MAIN thing that WadEd users want right now.

Or I could just scrap the C learnage and port it to VB... which I won't do anyhow, because there are more advantages to using C, as you probably know.

But, it could serve as a 'quick fix' so WadEd users aren't stuck copy-pasting in other editors forever ;)

I actually like the way WadEd scrolls, with the arrows (not the KB arrowns, the graphical arrows you know).

Then I make an option to have them on screen, or just have them present anyway.

If it's as an indicator to which direction the object is actually facing, good idea.

Yes it is. It's gotta be up there on the 'Things I hate about WadAuthor' list. Which is quite large, BTW :D

Oh and nice to hear the author isn't dead or something

http://drop.lithium.com <--- No, he most definitely isn't. His latest work must have delayed L�t's Millenium project for... HOW LONG NOW? ;)

11-11-01 16:20 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 11980
Registered: 05-00

http://drop.lithium.com <--- No, he most definitely isn't. His latest work must have delayed L�t's Millenium project for... HOW LONG NOW? ;)

WELL FUCK YOU VERY MUCH FOR POSTING THAT LINK AGAIN!!!

I thought I was totally done with that thing.

9,759 :)

11-11-01 17:20 #

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Jayextee
Darth Jrrr

Posts: 321
Registered: 10-00

Ssshhhhh! I'm trying to get everybody addicted.

I don't play it anyhow. I prefer to play Tetris Attack on the SNES. It's the same game, just with a multiplayer option.

11-11-01 17:30 #

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deep
as in Deepsea

Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01

ARE YOU CALLING ME PRETENTIOUS? I KILL YOU!!!!!!1111 :D

"Pretentions" - looks like pretentious but is different. Don't ask, don't tell and I won't have to kill YOU.

that method of scrolling is far worse than being tedious - it can be VERY counterproductive.

How? I don't see the selection box problem at all. Only time it would scroll -automatically- is if you hit a screen EDGE and you HAVE to go further to select objects (not really related to edge scrolling - WA does exactly the same thing for selection).

In that case it's exactly what is required - or else you can't select beyond the edge. Minimum fuss, minimum # of steps required. Simple mag adjustments can reveal the whole selection area anyway. Maybe you thought clicking always moves the map? I'm confused.

But the topic was scrolling the map, not selecting<g>. How do you propose to select beyond the edges without auto scrolling?

With the method you proposed (for scrolling), one has to move over a "small" button and then move the mouse, that's ergonomically not as easy. It's a very small target compared to a screen edge. Also involves more movement then required - almost always 2 dimensions - meaning one loses focus easier. (These same suggestions can be applied to web design).

Edge clicking is very relaxed, just go to the edge, press down and it scrolls. I don't like the "auto" edge scrolling as much, however, it's not much different. Some might say it's easier (no click required), I just think it's harder to be precise.

probably allow me to release a quick fix, without the limits,

Don't think there's a quick fix there. Haven't really researched this, but my gut feeling is that only a windows pgm (for basic) will remove the memory limits. A real mode pgm (IIRC which is what simple Basic has to work with), is stuck in limited memory mode for life. Only VB will let you easily jump that hurdle - and that won't be quick.

Then I make an option to have them on screen, or just have them present anyway.

Like I said earlier, button response is relatively sluggish for scrolling. A lot of times editor centric views don't always pan out in a different environment - speed and screen space being just 2 issues always present. But I'm a big screen space fan:)

Edit: Damn spelling mistakes - good excuse to get your ass back here:)

11-11-01 18:57 #

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