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ChaosOverlord
Junior Member


Posts: 171
Registered: 07-01
Man, I was working on my map... I go to change the attributes of a linedef and I save my map.. next thing I know, I go into the map and it's completely messed up.. I'm like "shit, must've forgotten to build the nodes or something".. I go back into wadauthor and lo and behold, several of my sectors ceiling and floor heights are swapped (between sector swapping I mean) and the same with my sector tags.... not only did it fuck with the heights, it changed all the ceiling and floor textures as well... WHY did this happen? (thank god I backed the level up a few days previously, but I still lost a lot).. has anyone else had this happen to them? WTF man!!!!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Old Post 11-08-01 21:13 #
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boris
meow


Posts: 3274
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Yep, happened to me a few times, too. Dunno why though.
Old Post 11-08-01 21:52 #
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ReX
Senior Member


Posts: 1458
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I go to change the attributes of a linedef and I save my map.. next thing I know, I go into the map and it's completely messed up..
WA does this occasionally (particularly on very large maps), but I'm guessing it's the node builder. It's referencing your sector to some other existing sector(s). If this happens, the first thing to do is to rename your .bak file to a .wad file and hope that your last save was fine. That way, you won't have too much re-work. Another tip is to do an error check every time you add/delete sectors, linedefs, or vertices. Admittedly, your error check will come back fine in the case you describe, because the nodes haven't been built yet. But at least it will pick up other errors you may have. Your system of periodic backups is also a good one.

When I first started editing, I always saved changes as a new wad. I was running into dozens of copies, and it was getting to be a pain. Nowadays, I just save frequently.
Old Post 11-08-01 22:23 #
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ChaosOverlord
Junior Member


Posts: 171
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Yeah, I know.. I opened the .bak file and it was fine.. so I go to change the same linedef again, and not paying attention like a damn moron, I saved it over the .bak file instead of renaming it to a .wad file.. so now both copies are jacked up... oh well... she'll be back on track in a few days... just sucks man... my map is HUGE and I was just about ready to cry.. I've been working on the bitch since the beginning of summer... man, that was fucked... then after my anger died, the fog lifted from my mind and I realized I had copied the map to my other computer so that I could work on it on that cpu.. that was a few days ago.. so I lost quite a bit of work.. but I'm just using the old version of the map as a reference to repair the now messed up one... it's coming along okay, but it's still a bitch to have to do...
Old Post 11-08-01 23:42 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
Registered: 09-01
WA does this occasionally (particularly on very large maps), but I'm guessing it's the node builder.
Maybe. WA uses essentially BSP 1.2. A BSP does NOT change any original references .. although it does create artificial vertices .. which all node builders do (the original DeePBSP was based on 1.2). These extra vertices are used by "node lines". I have no memory of BSP 1.2 causing any problems except as noted below.

As an aside this is one of the slowest versions there is. It does have the "which side" mistake which can create invisible "blocks". It would be better to use one of the newer node builders and disable the internal version. Besides faster and more reliable, it would also eliminate that as a potential source of the error.
Old Post 11-09-01 01:42 #
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Lüt
YA-HA


Posts: 11980
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I go to change the attributes of a linedef and I save my map.. next thing I know, I go into the map and it's completely messed up..
WA does this occasionally
Are you kidding?!? It does it to me EVERY TIME I either change a linedef attribute or a sector attribute. All it's good for is cut+paste.
Old Post 11-09-01 05:08 #
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ChaosOverlord
Junior Member


Posts: 171
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Eh, whatever... alls I know is i can build things quickly and effeciently with WA.. I'll stick with it and just make constant backups... probably write a small batch file or something... which brings another question to mind... is it possible to set some command in a batch file so that it won't run until AFTER the wadauthor program is executed..? I've tried doing this with something else and it would run the final part of the batch file immediately after it executes the .exe ... man, I haven't written a batch file since the MS-DOS days, and back then it would all execute in order... sup with that? I mean I know why it does that now, but is there any way to work around this?
Old Post 11-09-01 09:07 #
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Lüt
YA-HA


Posts: 11980
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You can put a "PAUSE" in to halt the batch until you tell it to continue.
Old Post 11-09-01 11:53 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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Very interesting.... this has happened for me a few times in DeepSea too!
Old Post 11-09-01 17:24 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
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Very interesting.... this has happened for me a few times in DeepSea too!
Mmmm. Remember, the last time you wrote about not changing "attributes" and I pointed out you had cancelled out of the dialog (probably inadvertantly). The code works the same way each and every time - humans do not.

It's best to send me an example - for example on the "crossing" issue. Drawing a "cross" works (could be some option you turned off or the level had some deliberate quirk?). Documentation in a precise manner is the ONLY way to really know. Memory of what one did is at best erratic in humans:)

Anyway, as in the node builder example, the ONLY way attributes of a level are changed (assuming you are using DeePbsp), is if the user changes them. If you PACK sidedefs you have to be VERY careful when editing. Some commands have a check for this (like splitting), but simple attribute(s) setting does not.

My guess is that you selected some extra objects and did not realize it when editing - not really unusual. Could be the same thing here for WA? It also helps to keep your task list at a minimum and not run a zillion things simultaneously - makes windows behave much better (or use XP<g>).

Open to accurate constructive examples I can look into. And one has to follow up!
Old Post 11-09-01 18:28 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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I know what I'm doing. Sometimes DeepSea does things it should not do in situations where.

Recent bug I've encountered:

- I don't know exactly why/when, but sometimes a bunch of of linedefs get their properties changed after editing/deleting one. (Observe, I did not pack sides, select all these lines, or anything like that). In a similiar way, sometimes sectors get their properties mixed up, but that seems to be related to saving. Well, I don't know actually. It takes some time before you find out that a specific sector or line has been changed without your knowledge. So I have not been able to recall exactly what caused these things :|

This debugging info is probably useless. So I'll tell you later if I find anything.

That cross works now, btw. Heh.
Old Post 11-10-01 01:13 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
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Recent bug I've encountered:- I don't know exactly why/when, but sometimes a bunch of of linedefs get their properties changed after editing/deleting one.
When editing, it's literally impossible to change any other object than the one(s) selected (assuming you have no packed sidedefs in there, nor "shared" sectors).

I've had reports from misbehaving mouse drivers (caused by who knows what), that ended up sending invalid "selection" data, end result being more objects selected than intended.

ALWAYS look at the number of objects actively selected (upper right hand corner) to make sure it matches what you think you clicked:) When you press C (for clear) it should always reset to -0-.

Remember, this is a pgm and as such "mistakes" can be duplicated. Without corroborating info, I'd have to treat this as the other "examples".

None of the basic deletion and saving code has been changed for a long time. Doubt that it has anything to do with this - unless nobody ever bothered to point something like this out? That could be:)

So if you have a pattern that reproduces, please let me know.
Old Post 11-10-01 20:01 #
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Fredrik
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Without corroborating info, I'd have to treat this as the other "examples".


Usually when something goes wrong, I panic to restore it rather than try to look up exactly what caused it =P

You really should make DeepSea handle more than one undo/redo.

I have 512mb RAM, so my computer could handle 100 copies of a map if it was necessary.
Old Post 11-10-01 20:22 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
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usually when something goes wrong, I panic to restore it rather than try to look up exactly what caused it =P
Why panic? Just rename .bak to something and take your time.

Btw, I'm assuming you are using DeePbsp and have NOT massaged the file with other pgms, nor have you playtested ANY port:) If not, then all bets are off. Having "duplicate" lumps is a clear indication you do use other utils though:)
You really should make DeepSea handle more than one undo/redo.
Think big: 100 x 4mb = 400mb (which is the size of Lut's level. 512 would just handle that. I'll have to play around with some variations - just need to get in the right mood.

If most people are like me, they forgot what the last 100 editing actions were:)

Btw, turn on autosave and you automatically get 100 backups (done only when level changes) from 5 min to 1 hr. For the security minded and all that.
Old Post 11-10-01 21:34 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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I do however want more more undo/redos, for the convenience of it. I doubt I'd go back 100 times, but at least 3.


Story behind the duplicate lumps: I am making a map for Hell Revealed 2. The resource WAD I got has these 150 errors... which I do not intend to clean up. I just want to get rid of the error messages, because the errors don't affect my map in any way and it's not like the first time I read it is not enough.

Really, a quick shortcut for save, build nodes, playtest with last used settings, and only show a message if there is a critical error that will crash the nodes builder or Doom or something else, I'd really love that.

Plz :)
Old Post 11-11-01 00:21 #
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Fredrik
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Oh btw, a weird bug I've noticed. Sometimes after playtesting when I get back to Deepsea, scrolling is all screwed up. When I try to scroll, it crawls extremely slowly and laggy, and DeePsea's CPU usage at the time is 100%. When releasing the scroll button, the program locks for 1-2 seconds. The only way to get normal performance again is rebooting.

My computer is an Athlon 1400/266mhz, like I said - 512mb RAM, running Windows 2000.

Is this a bug in Deepsea or Win2k?
Old Post 11-11-01 00:26 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


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.. after playtesting when I get back to Deepsea, scrolling is all screwed up. When I try to scroll, it crawls extremely slowly and laggy, and DeePsea's CPU usage at the time is 100%. When releasing the scroll button, the program locks for 1-2 seconds. The only way to get normal performance again is rebooting.
If it makes you feel any better (FWIW), I get the same thing playtesting ZDOOM, but never stock DOOM.

Window messages drive all this stuff. Cpu usage at 100% is fine - always that way when scrolling (otherwise response time would suck since windows messaging is not exactly fast). Ditto for some other tasks.

The "lag" is either caused by another task or the basic system timer no longer functions as it's supposed to. There's a dynamic delay in DeePsea to keep from going scrolling too fast. Now if the timer no longer works correctly, the "delay" will not be the done right either.

Like I said earlier, the code is the SAME, before and after testing, which leaves only 1 variable - the port you playtested:) Could be some Directx error (for ZDOOM anyway).

So in a nutshell, something (and it's not DeePsea code) starts interfering with the system in general. To me it sounds like some task that is supposed to stop, but keeps on trucking.

Need to test more on XP and see if I can get it to happen there. I haven't revealed any problems like that yet. Haven't done a lot though. Just takes time to make sure.
Old Post 11-11-01 01:57 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


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I do however want more more undo/redos, for the convenience of it. I doubt I'd go back 100 times, but at least 3.
It will probably be done in the next release - limit will be 100. 80% done, just need to test and all that stuff.

Story behind the duplicate lumps: I am making a map for Hell Revealed 2. The resource WAD I got has these 150 errors... which I do not intend to clean up.
It only takes a few seconds to fix it. Press F7, select "Rename-Ins.." select all and save. Bam, all duplicates have now disappeared. Duplicates can cause trouble and grief in other situations - not a good idea, besides wasting space.

But you don't keep up:) All the error message stuff (dups, palette, player starts) has already been optioned away - see www.sbsoftware.com. I forgot about with player starts on saving (only error checker has option now), but that has been added too.
Old Post 11-11-01 02:06 #
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Lüt
YA-HA


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Oh btw, a weird bug I've noticed. Sometimes after playtesting when I get back to Deepsea, scrolling is all screwed up. When I try to scroll, it crawls extremely slowly and laggy, and DeePsea's CPU usage at the time is 100%. When releasing the scroll button, the program locks for 1-2 seconds. The only way to get normal performance again is rebooting.
I get the same problem, but it's not related to DeepSea, I'm pretty sure it's ZDoom. After running ZDoom is the only time that's ever happened on my computer.
Old Post 11-11-01 07:02 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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Why this hostile attitude... I pay you money dnamit.
Old Post 11-11-01 12:36 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


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Why this hostile attitude... I pay you money dnamit.
Are you serious?

I explain what's going on, how to fix stuff and the status of options. How exactly is that hostile? Let's not have any more of this pretentions crap:)

I've had reports from a few that have exactly the same problem with ZDOOM. Started happening in the 1.2 releases.

Thanks Lut for posting another example - not everyone has this problem. I have no idea what causes it, only that it is ZDOOM related.
Old Post 11-11-01 19:10 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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heh no
Old Post 11-11-01 20:42 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
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heh no
Ok, then I'll have to kill you too.

Anyway, the undo stuff is done. Have to add a "redo" cmd (currently undo just flip-flops). Trying to decide right now what the limit should be? 100 seems ample to me. Hate to have undo use all the memory and have somebody freak out:)
Old Post 11-11-01 22:27 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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Let the user specify from the options menu how much memory he wants to use for it :)
Old Post 11-11-01 23:40 #
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deep
as in Deepsea


Posts: 1066
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Let the user specify from the options menu how much memory he wants to use for it :)
That would be awkward for both of us:) I just let the user set the depth of undo support 1 - 100, default will be 10. Look for it in Map options.

A level can start out being able to support 100 and in the end be much less. I prefer consistency in settings - i.e., knowing how much one can "undo" or "redo". Redo command is Ctrl+Y (same as Word).

Seems to all work ok - am checking with Lut's giant level (that level is a Godsend for me in testing).
Old Post 11-12-01 01:21 #
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Fredrik
fredrikj.net


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I wonder if the scrolling issue is related to sound? I think it occurs less frequently when I go -nosound with ZDoom. Not sure though. It's not like I want to spend 10 minutes doing a few reboots to give you proper evidence :P
Old Post 11-12-01 17:09 #
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