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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
Registered: 02-04

so ive been reading the EXCELLENT guide as created by drsleep and ive run into a problem building rising staircases.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ent=stairs1.jpg

is a link to illustrate which linedefs are giving me problems.

the rectangular sector is set with ceiling = 0 and floor = -128
the more boxlike sector to the left is set with floor = 0 and ceiling = 128

the 4 sectors contained within the box sector to the left are set with floor = -128 and ceiling = 128.

now of the first 3 sectors in the "underground" part, the first one gives me no problems.

on the 2 sectors that have the highlighted linedefs when i raise the ceiling from 0 to 32 (to allow for the player to pass as he goes up the stairs) i get what looks like an OHM effect on the highlighted linedefs in 3D mode.

first image is with no problems, ceiling height is still all 0 for the underground part (before altering it).

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ent=stairs2.jpg

these next images show the effects of raising the ceiling from 0 to 32 (and i have textures on all top middle and lower front linedefs)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ent=stairs3.jpg

however in this picture even with the ceiling raised from 0 to 32 from this angle it doesnt look like it.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ent=stairs4.jpg

(this would be looking from the right side of the rectangular sector to the left).

so, im not really sure what im missing here.

also, that first "stair" sector to the right was the only one i made. i copy pasted the others from that original one and then flipped any linedefs that needed it.

i tried remaking it again without copy-pasting except it came out even more screwed up so i reloaded the level from an earlier build and started over.

Last edited by Godshatter on 08-02-08 at 23:17

08-02-08 23:12 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
Registered: 10-05

Here's my guess: The linedefs highlighted in your first picture (and possibly some others) have a back sidedef and no front sidedef. It should be the other way around.

Keeping all the correct sidedefs around your sector can be tricky business when copying and pasting in Doombuilder, I find.

It's also a lot easier for us to identify the problem if you upload the wadfile somewhere and post a link.

08-02-08 23:26 #

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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
Registered: 02-04

could u suggest a place where i can upload files?

edit: i unchecked the back side def so it should have front sidedef only but i still get the same problem.

edit2: though that seemed to help with the ceiling problem. i now correctly see the ceiling in those sectors, but im still getting those black areas on the side.

08-02-08 23:36 #

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Death-Destiny
Forum Regular

Posts: 932
Registered: 12-07

Godshatter said:
could u suggest a place where i can upload files?

Try this one. I think they got rid of a lot of the obnoxious "security" designed to convince you to register.

08-03-08 00:55 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
Registered: 10-05

Godshatter said:
could u suggest a place where i can upload files?

edit: i unchecked the back side def so it should have front sidedef only but i still get the same problem.

edit2: though that seemed to help with the ceiling problem. i now correctly see the ceiling in those sectors, but im still getting those black areas on the side.

Are you sure the fronts of those lines have sidedefs? I think that you removed the back sidedef without putting a front sidedef on those lines, and I meant for you to put fronts on those lines as well. You should manually check the box next to "front side", give the front side an upper texture, and put the correct number in the "sector" box (ie. the number should be the number of the sector that the line borders). Good luck.

08-03-08 01:00 #

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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
Registered: 02-04

that got it.

the larger sector that they were all inside was sector 21 and the smaller ones giving me trouble were sectors 24 and 25. those side lindefs were tagged as part of sector 21 so i changed them to the correct ones and that solved the problem.

however, i had intended for those internal sectors to be child sectors of 21.

by tagging those lines to sectors 24 and 25, does that alter the geometry of sector 21?

edit: also will changing those sectors effect the mechanics of the rising staircase since they are entrained?

08-03-08 01:08 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
Registered: 10-05

The terminology in that tutorial of "parent" and "child" sectors can be a tad misleading, because in the .wad file, sectors don't preserve any sort of parent/child relationship with each other. It's probably better to think of all sectors as completely separate from each other.

In a staircase, you definitely want all stairs to be separate sectors. Make sure that each sector is completely surrounded by sidedefs that reference that sector, and that there aren't any stray sidedefs that reference that sector somewhere else. (The easiest way to check this is to just move your mouse over each sector in turn - if the sector's outline always turns yellow with no gaps and with no extra yellow lines showing elsewhere, then it's probably fine.)

The rising staircase action should work as long as all the front sidedefs are pointing in the right direction - there's no parent/child relationship that matters. Point all the sidedefs how they appear in the example screenshots and the staircase should hopefully rise.

08-03-08 01:20 #

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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
Registered: 02-04

ah. thank you for that clarification.

however when i try and export it, i get an error saying the nodebuilder could not build the required structures.

is there a way to get a list of things that failed or that gave the nodebuilder problems?

using zdbsp as the nodebuilder

edit: also, is there a way to show the sector numbers in the sectors themselves? like have a 3 somewhere in sector 3 without having to mouse over it. just so i know which sector numbers have already been used?

edit2: download here http://rapidshare.com/files/134431410/demo2.rar.html

i really appreciate yall's help by the way

Last edited by Godshatter on 08-03-08 at 01:57

08-03-08 01:31 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
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I'm not the one to ask about the advantages of this or that nodebuilder, as I really don't know anything about that, but I do know that different nodebuilders get fussy about different things. Exporting your map with ZenNode works without a problem.

"also, is there a way to show the sector numbers in the sectors themselves? like have a 3 somewhere in sector 3 without having to mouse over it. just so i know which sector numbers have already been used?"

No. But, this feature isn't necessary. DoomBuilder automatically makes sure that there aren't any gaps in the sector numbers. Your map currently has 27 sectors, numbered 0-26, so you know that the sector number of 27 is unused. Besides, when you draw new lines to outline an area, a new sector is automatically created - you don't need to worry about what number it is.

By the way, another way to spot the sort of mapping error that you've been making is to run the "find map errors" tool, which is logically in the tools menu. I'm afraid you still have a few unclosed sectors, which cause some rendering problems in your map. In this case, you can fix these sectors by merging sectors 6 and 0 together, and by merging sectors 3 and 12 together - but it won't always be this easy. It can be complicated to fix broken sectors, so the most important thing is to not break them in the first place. You need to be very careful when you're removing sectors or linedefs to avoid leaving unclosed sectors behind. I trust that you'll learn what works and what doesn't as you experiment, and working through the tutorial more than once isn't a bad idea.

You also need to remove the "double-sided" flag and the back sidedef from linedef 58.

And just so you know, there's an error in the tutorial, so it isn't your fault that the first door (sector 17) doesn't open. But, it will open if you remove the actions from linedefs 9 and 67, for a complicated reason.

08-03-08 02:56 #

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Godshatter
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Posts: 250
Registered: 02-04

thanks for your help creaphis. im making those changes now.

08-03-08 18:31 #

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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
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okay after making all the fixes that the find errors tool required, i still cant export the map. getting the same error.

also i forgot to ask a question about teleporters. how does doombuilder know which teleporter entrance goes to which teleport exit? the entrance sectors have a teleport tag, but the exit (thing) doesnt seem to have any flag that marks it as an exit for any one specific teleport entrance.

the guide im reading never addresses this for some reason.

08-03-08 18:57 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
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Try setting ZenNode.exe as your export nodebuilder instead of what you're currently using.

As for teleporters, this is roughly how it works:

1. The player crosses a teleport linedef with sector tag X
2. Doom looks for a sector with sector tag X
3. If that sector has a teleport thing in it, then the player will teleport to the location of the teleport thing, facing in its direction.

You don't need to tag the teleport thing directly.

08-03-08 19:22 #

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Godshatter
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Posts: 250
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zennode.exe gave me the same error.

08-03-08 19:48 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 1296
Registered: 10-05

Well I don't know then. Don't worry about exporting. Regular saving is fine, as filesize is a small issue nowadays.

08-03-08 19:50 #

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Godshatter
Member

Posts: 250
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aye

its working now. as long as i dont try to export it.

but i have one last question.

how do i make the ceiling open so i can see the sky/outside instead?

or just make an outside sector in general?

Last edited by Godshatter on 08-03-08 at 20:15

08-03-08 20:00 #

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Death-Destiny
Forum Regular

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If you give a sector the flat "F_SKY1", that area will be rendered as a sky. Give the area of the ceiling you want to be the sky this flat.

08-03-08 20:20 #

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Godshatter
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awesome, thanks.

also, is there a way to get 1 switch to trigger multiple events?

like have hitting a switch open a door + raise a platform?

secondly, is there a command or something to select a specific sector?

it keeps saying sector 0 is not closed but i cant even find it to select now.

(im working on a new map here btw)

i seem to be having difficulties when i draw adjacent sectors where they share a common line. one of them will lose the line associated it or have too many lines associated with them all of a sudden.

Last edited by Godshatter on 08-04-08 at 00:49

08-03-08 22:56 #

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Kyka
needs to LURK MORE

Posts: 484
Registered: 06-08

Godshatter said:
awesome, thanks.

also, is there a way to get 1 switch to trigger multiple events?

like have hitting a switch open a door + raise a platform?

secondly, is there a command or something to select a specific sector?

it keeps saying sector 0 is not closed but i cant even find it to select now.

(im working on a new map here btw)

i seem to be having difficulties when i draw adjacent sectors where they share a common line. one of them will lose the line associated it or have too many lines associated with them all of a sudden.

Ok. To answer as many questions as I can.

First off, If you are just using standard Doom setup, then yes you can only have a switch triger one type of event (though clever use of that one event can make it look like more than one. e.g. a switch opens a door, but also opens doors elswhere in the level thereby letting monsters teleport in around you.

There is a command to select a specific sector. (or vertex or linedef or thing) Simply open up the edit tab and you will find a "find" command. (or else just hit F3) Then you can select what you want to find, then enter the number of the object itself.

If you are having problems with losing a common line between sectors, then (if I understand what you have written) it is always better to insert a sector next to another rather than draw the sector. To insert hold shift and right click the mouse while in linedef mode, then DB will ask you for what type of sector. Then you can attach it to another sector nearby. I only ever actually draw sectors inside already existing sectors, never for adjacent sectors.

Hope this helps, good luck with your new map.. :)

08-04-08 03:25 #

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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!

Posts: 1462
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The map had two broken sectors. One with the two-sided linedefs on the teleport in the upper left corner of that room. They should reference sector 6 and not sector 0.

Also, on the opposite side of your door where the doorway leads into the room, there is a sidedef that should reference sector 12.

After that, directly parallel to the same line across the room, there is a wall that should not have a second sidedef.

So after fixing those two broken sectors and removing the bad sidedef, your map worked perfectly for me.

http://rapidshare.com/files/134676139/demo2.wad

I don't use Doombuilder, so I can't really explain how to avoid these sorts of problems. Fixing them is easy though, if you understand how sidedefs reference sectors. Try drawing complete sectors and merging them into other sectors. That might avoid the broken stuff.

08-04-08 04:25 #