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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
Registered: 03-05

So I've never really taken a serious go at mapping, but I had an idea for a wad that took place in Cyberspace and relied on simple lines and dramatic lighting using Zdoom(as I'm not especially experienced in heavily-detailed maps.) So I put together a quick proof of concept and wanted some critiques and ideas. Of course this isn't much more than a room, but I wanted an idea of how well the visuals work with the theme, and if there are any tricks or other methods that I could incorporate into the project.

A couple of ideas off the bat:

How can I lower the gravity so that the player falls slower and jumps higher?

I can make the art, but how could I incorporate sprite-work into the project? (Again, new to mapping)

Are there any engine tools that could improve the feel of the project?

I'd like to rely more on traps and puzzles than monsters (if I can avoid adding monsters all together I will) and have the player contacted by an AI most of the game through text or sound. I do not know how to accomplish this and would appreciate ideas on how to.

http://www.filesavr.com/cyberspace

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie1.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie2.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie3.png

Thanks for looking into my first attempt.

07-05-09 08:24 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 2940
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That's an interesting looking concept.

Bank said:
How can I lower the gravity so that the player falls slower and jumps higher?

ZDoom has an actor gravity property which can be applied to player pawns. A value of 0.16 (lunar gravity) will have Doomguy leaping about like a gazelle.

07-05-09 09:32 #

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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
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GreyGhost said:
That's an interesting looking concept.
ZDoom has an actor gravity property which can be applied to player pawns. A value of 0.16 (lunar gravity) will have Doomguy leaping about like a gazelle.

Could you tell me how to implement that? I've done a little looking around at DECORATE editors but have had no luck actually accomplishing anything.

07-05-09 10:29 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 2940
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Can do. Using your favourite lump editor - create a KEYCONF lump containing the following lines-

code:clearplayerclasses
addplayerclass DoomGuy

and a DECORATE lump as follows-

code:ACTOR DoomGuy : DoomPlayer
{
  gravity 0.16
}

That can be concatenated to the single line that follows but I like to spread things out to aid readability.

code:
ACTOR DoomGuy : DoomPlayer { gravity 0.16 }

07-05-09 11:46 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 3327
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The second screenshot resembles thematically a spiral circuit on a chip. Was it intended, considering the cyberspace name?

07-05-09 11:47 #

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Creaphis
I will deliberately take a contrary position just for the sake of writing incredibly long arguments

Posts: 3179
Registered: 10-05

Cyberspace is supposed to be eye-gougingly garish. Play Hacx for inspiration.

07-05-09 16:06 #

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DuckReconMajor
Senior Member

Posts: 1809
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Though it's a deathmatch wad, I would take a look at DarkLinux's Cybercrime3.0, especially map06

07-05-09 20:20 #

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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
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GreyGhost said:
Can do. Using your favourite lump editor - create a KEYCONF lump containing the following lines-
code:clearplayerclasses
addplayerclass DoomGuy
and a DECORATE lump as follows-

code:
ACTOR DoomGuy : DoomPlayer { gravity 0.16 }
That can be concatenated to the single line that follows but I like to spread things out to aid readability.

code:
ACTOR DoomGuy : DoomPlayer { gravity 0.16 }

I'm still having a little trouble with this, because I guess I'm not exactly sure WHAT I should be editing. Could you tell me a lump editor to use and give me a walkthrough of those features? Again, thanks for the assistance.

printz said:
The second screenshot resembles thematically a spiral circuit on a chip. Was it intended, considering the cyberspace name?

I wouldn't say it was exactly intentional, but when I think of cyberspace or the inside of a computer I usually think of a lot of spirals and thin lines.

07-05-09 21:10 #

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Cybershark
Junior Member

Posts: 146
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Lol, sooner or later everyone goes and makes a TRON map :D

DuckReconMajor said:
Though it's a deathmatch wad, I would take a look at DarkLinux's Cybercrime3.0, especially map06

Actually, I'd rather point him towards 8bitDM.

07-06-09 03:57 #

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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
Registered: 03-05

I've started experimenting with some more architecture and effects; I've made the maps lit in a way where they can be read either from the ceiling or the floor; and some of the challenges would require you to do both (IE, long drops and knowing where to fall based on patterns on the ceiling) and have a couple more shots to show. I'm still having a lot of difficulty in the scripting/events department; as I'm really not even sure how to do a switch or teleporter.

I've included the next version of the map; it has two rooms, one must be idclipped to view, just go straight forward from player start.
http://www.filesavr.com/cyberspace2

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie9.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie5.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie6.png
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/Comiclez/screenie7.png

And yes TRON was an influence : )

More questions -

I've played maps that have spoken voice acting and high quality music, how is this done?
I whipped up a sample of the kind of messages I would like to play at certain points, would something like this be possible to play in zdoom? http://www.filesavr.com/aitalk

How do I set something to become a teleporter after a sequence of buttons are pressed. How to I make the sequence of buttons? (For reference, I've added four pillars around the main pillar in the original room, I want them to act as switches, each lowering as they are activated. After the four have lowered, the original pillar--where the player starts--lowers and teleports the player to the next area)

Thanks for all the help getting me off the ground, sorry if I am unclear!

Last edited by Bank on 07-06-09 at 05:10

07-06-09 05:03 #

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Super Jamie
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Posts: 2243
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Straight up, I love this idea. It's so retrotech it's awesome. This is one of those things which should have "2000" appended to the name, because that sounded really futuristic back in 1980 :P

System Shock incorporates some "cyberspace" ideas similar to what you're designing. Check here under the heading "29-Mar-2002".

It would be cool if you could "color code", like say follow a blue track through green areas to find a key or objective. Maybe if the player is smart there will be an unmarked shortcut.

Oh noes, my garbage file!!1!

http://www.newciv.org/pic/nl/artpic/10/1907/o_cyberspace.jpg

07-06-09 11:24 #

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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
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Super Jamie said:

It would be cool if you could "color code", like say follow a blue track through green areas to find a key or objective. Maybe if the player is smart there will be an unmarked shortcut.

I was planning on having the red colored areas be representative of space controlled by the computer's malevolent AI, and blue areas not yet under his influence. I was hoping to stay away from key hunts and things like that, I want the puzzles to be based on gravity, line of sight, and combinations (switches, etc.)

So far I've done the entire map with one texture.

07-06-09 11:35 #

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printz
CRAZY DUMB ZEALOT

Posts: 3327
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Looks SWEET, but if I were to place monsters, I'd use demons and imps. But anything can fit, really.

07-06-09 12:36 #

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GreyGhost
a ghost... only grey

Posts: 2940
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Bank said:

I'm still having a little trouble with this, because I guess I'm not exactly sure WHAT I should be editing. Could you tell me a lump editor to use and give me a walkthrough of those features? Again, thanks for the assistance.

For lump editing I mostly use XWE though you might prefer SLumpEd for it's syntax highlighting, the final choice might depend on which is more stable on your computer.

Here's a very brief walkthrough to get you started. Since no two editors will ever do things the same way, I've added red box-outs for XWE to most of the shots. -

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/6d41d816be51e0feb798d9c757665bfc2g.jpg
Having opened your wad (preferably a backup copy) in one of the editors, the first step is to create a new lump...

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/cf5d7d6d95c6cd752e8929ad5d175f2d2g.jpg
and give it an appropriate name - in this case the KEYCONF lump...

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3d03caacb28d3b7a455a65c98c5bc2442g.jpg
type or copy/paste text into the workspace (Note - SLumpEd recognises some lump names and automatically selects the correct hilight format)...

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/3220d81c3f4167b9a2e4972f793690f52g.jpg
and save changes. (Note - XWE puts a "Z" icon beside recognised ZDoom script lump names while SLumpEd uses a "T" icon for text lumps.)

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/c8bb8b6357fc2f0bef0596078f7fe1992g.jpg
Another way to add script lumps is by loading plain text files - preferably named "decorate.txt", "keyconf.txt", "dehacked.txt" and etc.

Be prepared to spend a lot of time browsing the ZDoom wiki for specific functions, playing around with example scripts (there are hundreds) and pestering Gez - who knows more about this stuff than I do. Hope this helps.

07-06-09 13:35 #

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Cybershark
Junior Member

Posts: 146
Registered: 09-07

Oh hey Bank, while we're inundating you with maps out there with similar themes then I just remembered a map I made for a Deathball project on Zdaemon. It's map22 in olio_a1o.
Also Virus might give you some more inspiration.
(Both work on Zdoom)

Depends how you care to work I guess. Me, if I hear of something out there which sounds similar to a project I'm working on then I avoid it like the plague until I'm done :P

07-06-09 15:42 #

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Bank
Senior Member

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Thanks for the help, I was able to do the gravity and still need to tweak the ratios to get the right feeling but it's working like a charm!

ToDo Learnlist - (some)
Make Teleports
Switches (Multiple switches that when the combination is complete cause events to occur)
Scripted events

07-06-09 21:56 #

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Super Jamie
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Bank said:
Switches (Multiple switches that when the combination is complete cause events to occur)

Scrolling sector with voodoo doll. The doll passage has X 32-high platforms, one of which lowers when you hit switches. You have X number of switches, which can be hit in any order. Once the doll is past the platforms, he triggers a W1 linedef to do the final desired action.

This is one Boom-compat way of doing things. Let me know if you want an example PWAD. You can script it better with ZDoom, and have that annoying "3 switches to go" thing appear too, but I haven't studied ACS that much.

07-06-09 22:41 #

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Enjay
ASK ME ABOUT FOOTBALL / STEAM / DEAD CELEBRITIES / THE BLAIR WITCH PROJECT

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I'm coming in to this a bit late. On the gravity thing, I don't think it's been mentioned, but this MAPINFO instruction may come in useful

aircontrol = <amount>
This specifies the amount of control the player has when airborne. A value of 1 means the player can move as freely in the air as he can on land, and 0 means the player has no control at all and must wait until landing before he can control his movements again. The standard aircontrol value is 0.00390625, which is just enough to allow you to easily jump up onto ledges.

I have used a value of 0.25 for am map that is supposed to play a bit like the UT map DM_Morpheus. It feels about right to me.

BTW, gravity can also be set via scripts but a player class, in this case, is probably more useful: unless there is more than one map and not all maps need to have low gravity.

07-06-09 22:43 #

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Morpheus
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Posts: 130
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Bank said:

Switches (Multiple switches that when the combination is complete cause events to occur)

If you're referring to Duke Nukem 3D styled switches, that requires a bit of ACS scripting, but it can be done. I've got an example right here: http://www.speedyshare.com/425704832.html

Observe it carefully, tweak it at your will. :)

07-06-09 23:01 #

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Bank
Senior Member

Posts: 1656
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http://www.filesavr.com/cyberspace3

I've done some more with the map; still haven't added teleporters although the physical spots where they will be are there; done a little more detailing and this version has the changed gravity and speed. That still probably needs some tweaking because I want the player to move somewhat slower and float a bit through space instead of speedy leaping.

This version might set up some of the things I want to do a bit better. I've included the teleporter pedestal in the second large room near the back center with two teleporters for yet unmade rooms on either side. If I wanted to turn the pedestal that the player starts on into a teleporter once a series of switches were pressed, how would I do that?

07-06-09 23:38 #

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Nomad
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Cybershark said:
Lol, sooner or later everyone goes and makes a TRON map :D

Actually, I'd rather point him towards 8bitDM.

Oh physics, thank science I am not epileptic! That is an interesting concept for a wad, but holy crap my eyes are bleeding.

07-06-09 23:56 #

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GhostlyDeath
Member

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Nomad said:

Oh physics, thank science I am not epileptic! That is an interesting concept for a wad, but holy crap my eyes are bleeding.

If this map does turn out to be flashing lights everywhere then I won't be able to play it. My limbs, eyebrows, and some thing in my brain would covnulse and twitch. I mean it really sucks when you're playing and your finger twitches and you screw up and end up falling in an unescapable pit.

But if you want swicthes to do different stuff like depending how many times they are pressed you could make a script that contains a counter. The same could go for standard lines, like if this press is switched on you can teleport somewhere, and if it's switched off, you can't teleport.

07-07-09 01:00 #

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Aliotroph?
postCount++

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Would be fun to have a map like this scripted so the colours change depending on who owns a given area, rather like how the flags and spawns work in a game like Enemy Territory.

07-07-09 05:02 #

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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!

Posts: 2062
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Bank, it looks like you're taking a different approach than with other similar "cyberspace" wads I've seen. I love the idea of some parts of the maps not being affected by the "AI's malice". I really think you should NOT use monsters though (or at least not the Doom 2 ones) and make this into something more of a puzzle wad and your battle against an unseen evil.

I also like Aliotroph's idea. Maybe the evil AI has taken over the whole map and you have to reclaim each area from the influence of the machine?

Keep up the good work, and keep learning. It looks really promising.

07-07-09 05:41 #

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Bank
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EarthQuake said:
Bank, it looks like you're taking a different approach than with other similar "cyberspace" wads I've seen. I love the idea of some parts of the maps not being affected by the "AI's malice". I really think you should NOT use monsters though (or at least not the Doom 2 ones) and make this into something more of a puzzle wad and your battle against an unseen evil.

You're almost dead on what I was going for. I decided a while ago that I will not use any monsters in the wad, and might get rid of weapons as well (unless I can code a weapon that would somehow aid in puzzle solving or something, maybe just to shoot buttons or illuminate chambers) and if I could figure out how the AI would talk to you a couple times during the map, then at the end you'd face off against him personally in a trap laden race to shut down the machine.

But I'm still trying to figure out some interesting challenges for the player. One I'm working on is a floorplan that will be illuminated on the wall next to the player so he can follow that as the actual floor will not be illuminated (and maybe stricken from the automap?)

07-07-09 05:45 #

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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!

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For the computer interacting with the player, you could always print/hudmessage things to the player on the screen and play a random "computer talk" sound. Perhaps maybe you have to find a translator to be able to understand what it's saying?

As for different puzzles and quests you could do, I would take a look at System Shock 2, and the relationship the player and Shodan have with each other. It's really quite a nice storyline with lots of interesting "puzzles". There are probably dozens of ideas from there that you can adapt to your project.

07-07-09 08:51 #

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Bank
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EarthQuake said:
For the computer interacting with the player, you could always print/hudmessage things to the player on the screen and play a random "computer talk" sound. Perhaps maybe you have to find a translator to be able to understand what it's saying?

Well, like I mentioned a bit before, I actually recorded a little dialog (http://www.filesavr.com/aitalk) that I would like to play at a certain part of the map (I'm taking a lot of cues from how Massmouth 2 handled cutscenes here) but have no idea what format the file would have to be in, or for that matter how to make it happen.

07-07-09 09:09 #

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Super Jamie
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The System Shock games have alot of little puzzles in them you may find useful. Complete a circuit, etc. There's an ACS example on the ZDoom Wiki of how to build a combination lock.

Whilst all these essentially boil down to key and switch hunts, the delivery could be different enough to be engaging.

I think you have come up with probably the coolest TC idea evar, and one of the easiest to implement from an author's point of view. One texture, no monsters, no weapons, no items and no keys certainly takes a load off :)

07-07-09 09:10 #

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Cybershark
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Nomad said:

Oh physics, thank science I am not epileptic! That is an interesting concept for a wad, but holy crap my eyes are bleeding.

Ah yeah, there is that factor. There is a patch floating around that disable all the animations but that's only really necessary if you're playing the thing for prolonged periods I guess.

07-07-09 12:42 #

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Nomad
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Bank said:

You're almost dead on what I was going for. I decided a while ago that I will not use any monsters in the wad, and might get rid of weapons as well (unless I can code a weapon that would somehow aid in puzzle solving or something, maybe just to shoot buttons or illuminate chambers) and if I could figure out how the AI would talk to you a couple times during the map, then at the end you'd face off against him personally in a trap laden race to shut down the machine.

Use the Gravity Gun or Portal gun or something. :)

07-07-09 17:03 #

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