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Joshy
Member

Posts: 532
Registered: 07-08

For me, I map in different ways, either spontaneously on the spot, or following a drawn out plan of the layout. But always, before I start the mapping itself, I decide the textures and architecture theme (as well as difficulty) to go along with followed by brief ideas of layout compositions. Sometimes I add in monsters as I map, or sometimes I add in the monsters after finishing the map. Whenever I go into a mapping block, I usually procrastinate by playing other maps. Sometimes I try forcing myself to map a little on occasions until I can map a lot more.

07-09-09 06:05 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 4850
Registered: 08-07

Glad to see people like my mapping style. When I first got into mapping, I didn't start until I played some of the more popular megawads from start to finish. By then I was pretty certain how to make detailed areas.

The biggest issue I had was that I never was able to finish a map. I'd start with some really nice detailed rooms, but I never had the full layout planned out. Using the method I made up, the maps basic layout is already sketched out, so mapper's block rarely gets in the way.

That's how the map only took me about an hour to finish. Personally I don't really enjoy searching for keys and switches and stuff. Shame not a lot of doomers enjoy the same gameplay as I do.

07-09-09 07:02 #

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Butts
Senior Member

Posts: 1470
Registered: 07-07

Normally I just throw some lines down then add detail. Sometimes I just get really high and see where it takes me. So far, it's working really fucking well for me, especially for my cc4 map, which is almost TOO non-linear... trying to incorporate elements of Plutonia 2 in it too. When I started on the map, I was trying to emulate a bit of Austerity, and it was turning out very linear... well, every time I map for it the map just gets larger and larger... it's at like 17,000 lines and there are only 2 rooms that are detailed to my liking. I fucking hope I can make the seg limit. Oh yeah, I also get side-tracked and detail the fuck out of all the rooms I make.

07-09-09 07:06 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 4850
Registered: 08-07

Also like most people here, for the same reason it is easy to draw a picture of something while you are looking at it right in front of you, it is a lot faster and easier to get a map done when you draw it out on paper. A pencil and paper is way less restricting and I guess because it's so easy to doodle lines in the shapes of rooms, it's a lot faster getting the layout done. Then just converting your pencil lines into lines and vertices isn't too hard unless you draw something super intricate that would be impossible to use on a grid.

You just gotta make sure you know where you are going when you map. Something that might come in handy though, if you do have a problem where you can visualize a good room and draw it out in your favorite map editor, save the room as a standalone wad, and put it in a folder somewhere. (I have a folder on my desktop called "Map Pile" that has a dozen maps that I never finished) then later when you do have an idea for a full layout of a map, see if you can incorporate some of your rooms from your oldies somewhere in there. That way all that time you spent on a map that was going nowhere doesn't go entirely to waste. I'm still searching my hard drive for wads I made a long time ago but left for dead.

07-09-09 07:15 #

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Jodwin
Forum Staple

Posts: 2556
Registered: 02-05

I've tried drawing maps on paper a few times, but it never worked out for me at all. Just some problems with drawing are scale (the smaller you draw the more you can fit on the paper, but the harder it is to plan detail or more intricate architecture), running out of space (especially if the map starts going towards the edge of paper instead of the empty space you've got left...) and making sense of all the little messy marks that are supposed to mean...something.

07-09-09 07:41 #

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EarthQuake
9.5 on the Richter!

Posts: 2710
Registered: 05-03

Here's something different...

I envision what the final map will look like. Then I map until I achieve what I saw in my head. As such, dreams are an excellent source of inspiration, since they give me a solid scene to reference.

Here's a perfect example:

Before touching my editor.
The result.

Err, well, pretty close. :P

07-09-09 08:09 #

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Lord_Z
Member

Posts: 502
Registered: 03-08

Usually I draw it out on paper first because I find it nice and easy to get it into Doom Builder after wards. Once the drawing is complete, I map out all of the sectors first then go back and adjust the heights and sizes as necessary and finally, I do the textures and detailing. When I don't draw it out I just wing it because sometimes it can have good results as well.

07-09-09 13:43 #

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purist
Forum Regular

Posts: 984
Registered: 04-04

I find it quicker and less painless in the long run if I do some sketching first. I don't draw what I want the finished map to look like I just draw the "layout", that is boxes where rooms are supposed to be with arrows showing potential routes. Next to the picture I'll write a few sentences to describe the pathway. If I get any ideas of interesting battles/setpieces I'll draw and write about these too, maybe even themes or architecture ideas if I think they are integral. The rest I do in the editor.

I think this approach has the best of both worlds. Layout and setpiece battles are choreographed but there is room left for adaption and "on-the-fly" creativity in the editor.

__________________
Get Hell Bent

07-09-09 20:13 #

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arrrgh
Member

Posts: 400
Registered: 04-09

I just start up my editor with a theme/idea in mind and map. Planning is not my strong point.

07-10-09 04:40 #

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pcorf
Senior Member

Posts: 1033
Registered: 06-05

What I do is I design my maps from start to finish. Often I'm out of ideas but I just force myself to start working on a map. And then as I add detail the ideas start to come into my brain and then I'm on a roll spending several hours a day mapping (when I'm at home of course) I imagine areas and often design those areas and sometimes I will draw out specific areas on paper. I often detail up rooms or areas, add gradient lighting, archways, blood rivers, decoration, and more. I also do a bit of copy and paste, especially with ceiling lights and certain decoration. I'm also very fussy when it comes to sky height and realism in my maps. So if a level has the sky set to 256 it often remains at that height throughout unless very far apart, the sky heights could be different if the map is mostly indoor but with sky at each end. If there is an area looking out to sky or ocean there is unlikely a room directly behind that. Once a room or area is done I align all textures in DB's 3D mode and Y offset textures manually in 3D mode or use the autoalign feature. Some textures such as 32 wide SUPPORT3, 128 wide SPCDOOR3, etc Dr. Sleep doors/lifts are aligned manually. When I used to use DoomCAD I never used to align all textures (especially rocked, and rocky textures) but would have to align them all manually.

Last edited by pcorf on 07-10-09 at 08:25

07-10-09 08:19 #

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CodeImp
Moderator

Posts: 1441
Registered: 12-03

JohnnyRancid said:
1. Draw out a bunch of random shapes for main rooms. Designate a Starting Position and End Position

2. Interconnect Main Rooms with hallways. To avoid linearity, make some rooms have more than 2 hallways in and out of it. (Unlike my map in this example)

3. Add Indentations in the walls and ceiling lights for detail

Results.

Heh i've got to try that some day. Sounds like even I could cook up a map with this method!
This also gives me an idea... Random Shapes Generator plugin anyone? :P

07-10-09 08:29 #

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Shadow Dweller
Forum Regular

Posts: 681
Registered: 04-06

8D

Yes!

Also, is there a way to rotate sectors in DB2, like you could do in DB1? This has been bugging me for a while and I can't seem to find the rotate function.

07-10-09 18:27 #

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Pavera
Senior Member

Posts: 1304
Registered: 07-08

CodeImp said:
Heh i've got to try that some day. Sounds like even I could cook up a map with this method!
This also gives me an idea... Random Shapes Generator plugin anyone? :P

Sounds like something I would use all the time.

So, how is it that the man behind the magic of Doom Builder can't make maps?

07-10-09 18:36 #

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CodeImp
Moderator

Posts: 1441
Registered: 12-03

Shadow Dweller said:
is there a way to rotate sectors in DB2, like you could do in DB1?

Make a selection, then press E to freely edit that selection (flip, resize, rotate and align)

Krispavera: My guess would be that a technical mind is too much driven by logic to be creative. The kind of creativity you need for original mapping is one where you have to stop thinking practical and come up with something that would be illogical (and maybe even impossible) when done in the real world.

07-10-09 20:46 #

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Shadow Dweller
Forum Regular

Posts: 681
Registered: 04-06

Oh, thanks!

07-10-09 21:51 #

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Pavera
Senior Member

Posts: 1304
Registered: 07-08

@CodeImp: Yeah, that makes sense. I've found in my life that I'm not a very mathematical person (I get by but I'm not brilliant). I wouldn't call myself extremely creative either, but I tend to think more about what I can do with the tools in front of me rather than how they were created (and by that, I mean programmed).

07-10-09 22:15 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 4850
Registered: 08-07

who made fbase6.wad then?

07-11-09 06:03 #

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CodeImp
Moderator

Posts: 1441
Registered: 12-03

Boris

07-11-09 09:52 #

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Hellbent
Forum Spammer

Posts: 3646
Registered: 06-00

CodeImp said:
Heh i've got to try that some day. Sounds like even I could cook up a map with this method!
This also gives me an idea... Random Shapes Generator plugin anyone? :P

I emailed Jack Vermeulen of Sbsoftware (DeepSea) the following:

A good 'mapper's block' feature might be a random sector generator that would either generate a random shaped sector by itself or several connected sectors (say 3 sectors or sectors connected by stairs) with the option of inputting number of vertices or lines, heights or texture themes. The plugin could have various number of texture templates to fit various themes such as hell, gothic, e1 tech base, doom episode 2, doom 2 city, realistic city, slime area, etc. etc. Or when choosing the type of sector randomization, you could maybe have a more advanced (and more useful) option of specifying type of area to be created such as a cavern, hellscape, small room, large room, hallway, maze, temple, slime pit, donut, etc. Anyway, something to consider!

07-11-09 22:20 #

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CodeImp
Moderator

Posts: 1441
Registered: 12-03

Thanks! I was about to send him my ideas, but you beat me to it I guess. :P

07-12-09 01:30 #

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Hellbent
Forum Spammer

Posts: 3646
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CodeImp said:
Thanks! I was about to send him my ideas, but you beat me to it I guess. :P

You should email him too! It will increase the chances he will actually implement the ideas. Anyway, it's a great idea and I'm surprised it hasn't been done.

07-12-09 02:05 #

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newt
Mini-Member

Posts: 70
Registered: 08-08

I do a "floor plan" ahead of time with labels of what each area will be and 3D representations of what the most significant rooms/structures will look like. Then I map room by room, detailing each one at a time before moving on to the next.

It's incredibly inefficient.

07-12-09 05:26 #

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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.

Posts: 4850
Registered: 08-07

I have a feeling a random shape generator could get really annoying unless you haven't started the map. Maybe you should have a list of prefabricated 'random shapes'

Squares
Rectangles
Diamonds
Octagons
Cross shapes,
X shapes
T shapes
L shapes
U shapes
E shapes
H shapes

Because I have a feeling a random shape generator would generate sectors that look like early versions of oblige that made really irregular shapes using entirely 90 degree angles. Also make sure the lines in the generated sectors have respectable lengths such as 256 or 192 so they are easy to detail and align textures to.

07-12-09 06:02 #

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Cybershark
Junior Member

Posts: 163
Registered: 09-07

Whenever I want to make something like a varying height cliff face around a map then it's always a real pain in the ass to have to draw out and 'randomise' the individual sectors of it. A perimeter terrain generator would be the bestest ever!

Shadow Dweller said:
Also, is there a way to rotate sectors in DB2, like you could do in DB1? This has been bugging me for a while and I can't seem to find the rotate function.

CodeImp said:
Make a selection, then press E to freely edit that selection (flip, resize, rotate and align)

I like this new all-in-one functionality but at the same time it is too 'free' for my tastes. What if I wish to do largescale precision manipulation? For example to resize to exactly 200% or rotate by precisely 60�?

And as for my own mapping methods? They're a muddled affair :)

07-13-09 12:41 #

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Archvile78
Member

Posts: 540
Registered: 02-08

JohnnyRancid said:
[B]Glad to see people like my mapping style. When I first got into mapping, I didn't start until I played some of the more popular megawads from start to finish. By then I was pretty certain how to make detailed areas.

Thats pretty much what i did except that with the first Doom Builder i was getting the Error 5 thing but either way i toyed A LOT with the editor. I practically learned myself how to use the whole builder at the exception of scripting. But linedef action and such its all in my head. Seeing i record many demos of megawads i eventually got inspired by these and finally made my first map someday, not the best piece of work but its ok for a first map ever i suppose.

Took me more than a year of toying + the release of Doom Builder 2 to finally start mapping. =P

Last edited by Archvile78 on 07-13-09 at 17:21

07-13-09 17:03 #

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CEOofAEP
Green Marine

Posts: 35
Registered: 02-01

:revives threat:

Seeing how I started off in 1995 and grew up with DEU 5.2 and 5.33 GCC (or in other words, learning editing without a 3D-preview) has me (heavily) relying on scribbling.

I'm somewhere between technical and creative (meaning, my levels are neither technical enough nor creative enough) but I've always been the sketching type. No, not sketchy. Sketching.

Drawing used to be a big hobby of mine and even now, with DB(2) I am still quicker with pen & paper when it's just "jotting down" an idea for later.

I still have a whole notepad worth of single pages (or even just little memo-sized pieces... anything I can get my hands on when an idea hits me). Those pages are often tightly crammed with ideas, quickly sketched out in some pseudo-3D or top-down view (or both, depending on complexity).

The ideas I pin down can be anything from a single room or just some idea for machinery, archways, pillars, staircases or whatnot- to a whole area / concept (but hardly ever a complete level).

Sometimes I also just write down level- / area-concepts in a few simple words like "start off in plain view of the exit" or such. Yea, original example, I know.

When it comes to putting those ideas to work in a level, I usually pick those ideas that work best together, out of that "goldmine" and weave them together in a believable fashion. Or so I tell myself.

My perfectionism (lack of reaching a point where I am satisfied myself), paired with my megalomania (planning out a whole episode for DOOM 1 and thereby "ninefolding" my potential reasons for disappointment with myself) left me with 9 levels that are all 90% done and a 10-year-hiatus, though... which I am only now slowly awaking from. Needless to say I never published any of those levels, either ._.

So... dunno how much my word's worth =D

02-22-10 15:55 #

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Mr. Chris
The term is "prehensile"

Posts: 3519
Registered: 07-02

I'm trying a different approach to mapping, starting with building the basic rooms/corridors/windows/adding normal doors/lifts WITHOUT detailing up to each locked door. Once I finish a quest to get a locked door, I'll begin detailing so I can focus on the undetailed areas before proceeding with the next section of the map.

02-22-10 16:49 #

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Super Jamie
Forum Staple

Posts: 2664
Registered: 03-08

Mr. Chris said:
I'm trying a different approach to mapping, starting with building the basic rooms/corridors/windows/adding normal doors/lifts WITHOUT detailing up to each locked door.

I think this is my biggest problem. I make things and detail as I go, then if I want to change things around later it's a real pain in the ass.

Like CEO, I have a bunch of scraps on paper and in DB and I use them when I think they would fit.

02-22-10 21:00 #