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BeenJammin
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I'm working in Doom 2 format with ZDaemon and I'm going to have lines of demons eight wide and eight tall; they'll be on top of each other. Slowly but surely I'm making it happen but it's very strict. I'm wondering if there is already an established technique so I don't have to continue by process of elimination.
It may be wishful thinking but I hope port and format won't matter! X)

Old Post 05-26-11 06:39 #
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Mithran Denizen
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Posts: 1093
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I'd love to help you out, but with the way you've worded your post, I haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about or what you're looking for.

Why do you want to stack 64 demons? Can you not just copy and paste them eight at a time, changing the z-height of each row? What's very strict? What are you doing by the process of elimination, and how do you want to streamline it? What do you mean about the port and format? You should ba able to create a stack of demons in ZDaemon, though not in other ports which use the original infinitely tall actors, or those that don't support spawning things at variable heights.

Old Post 05-26-11 07:37 #
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BeenJammin
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http://i56.tinypic.com/30cypug.png
On the left, there are eight demon things "stacked" but in-game, they're just stuck together and can't move.

http://i52.tinypic.com/289zwi8.png
I'm using action 23 - S1 lower floor to lowest floor to lower the floors the demon things are on. The floors are inside the thing's hitbox and this "throws" them backward. The brick sector is blocking them from going any further and thus they stack. Furthermore, I think when the throwing floor is behind the floor the thing stands on, it will throw it forward. Below is how the floors are set up. It seems even how wide the floors are matters how far they're thrown but I'm putting a stop to that with a wall that stops them.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2urtceo.jpg
Doom Builder view

http://i55.tinypic.com/nwau89.png
Voila! A stack of four. They are all independent now but as long as one moves with the other enough, they stay stacked.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2u6lqas.png
They're moving in for the kill!

I see where you got the 64 when I said eight wide and eight tall but as you can see I meant it quite literally! X)
I'm getting along well enough but would still love to have some insight from someone that's done this before.
PS It looks like z-height would do what I want but Doom 2 format doesn't have that. I've never used ZDoom format or Boom format or any of those others so I probably have just never seen the option and am doing it the hard way. Am I right?

[EDIT]
I DID IT!
http://i55.tinypic.com/15ceb9z.png
http://i53.tinypic.com/w05kd3.png
Toke would be proud (I'm making a coopbuildlm megawad tribute named Build 'Em Coop).

Last edited by BeenJammin on 05-26-11 at 11:01

Old Post 05-26-11 08:15 #
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MajorRawne
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http://www.cyclespeedway.asn.au/images/pyramid%20early-640.jpg

Old Post 05-26-11 11:56 #
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gemini09
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hehe

Looks interesting! Worth experimenting with! I like your efforts! I'll try it out some time

Old Post 05-26-11 13:21 #
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Memfis
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This is hilarious! Can you stack different monsters, like shotgunner riding a pinky demon?

Old Post 05-26-11 15:19 #
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printz
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I don't get it. Do they remain on top of each other or eventually fall?

Old Post 05-26-11 17:10 #
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BeenJammin
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http://i54.tinypic.com/2iu2t5c.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/345eno0.png
I have no doubt other things can be on top of others like a shotgunner atop a demon. The shotgunner has a slower walk speed so that that means a demon will just run right out from under him. They do eventually fall because when they're alerted they're all in motion independent of one another.
At one point it looked like unless the thing on the bottom is able to move, be it unalerted or stuck, nothing else could move until it's free but that was just a quick observation, not my goal--I didn't pursue that. It's interesting, I wonder what would happen if one thing monster faced one way and the other another way what would happen?
I'd bet you could have a few block monster lines and a wall work to get your piggy backing on and keep it on. Multi-pigging. Bi-pigging? Hehe The demon might be getting blasted and looking like he's trying to bite his own ear. LOL
http://i56.tinypic.com/zvrjae.png
I'm going to have to figure out how to have the door open instantly as opposed to just rolling open slowly because as you can see, now they're not eight high. As the door opens, they're alerted and there you have it. I plan on using a figuring out a stair action trick it to have it just "disappear" like the falling cybers in coopbuildlm.

Old Post 05-26-11 20:17 #
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gemini09
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You should try to alter the Demon-actor's height, to like 54, and place about 100 hundred at the end of a hallway, so when they walk towards you, it will look horribly evil with the way they walk on top of and past each other to get their prey (you!)

I'm kinda tired and I forgot monsters don't climb steps higher than 16 (or something), but you could modify that too... :)

Old Post 05-27-11 03:59 #
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EarthQuake
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Reminds me of something DanDare did:

Old Post 05-27-11 04:09 #
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BeenJammin
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Yeah!
The reason why I chose Doom 2 format in the first place was so the megawad will be as universal as possible. I named this particular map "When You Get To The Bottom, You'll Find It's A Floater." You may see screenshots here: https://sites.google.com/site/bldmcoop/screenshots
I test in ZDoom a lot, it's not the same, so I'm sure it won't work in many cases. They'll get stuck in midair and become unable to move or just fall out of place. When I can manipulate the old original to do what I want (aside from Toke's coopbuild changes), that's what I do. I'm not making height alterations or anything of that nature. Rest assured, the demon wave from Hell barreling toward its prey is waiting comfortably and works perfectly in ZDaemon.
I'm making another map now that stacks things. It's the remix of Toke's map08... MuHahahahaaaAA

Old Post 05-27-11 05:31 #
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Mithran Denizen
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You can make your maps in whatever format you feel like of course, but this trick won't work in very many other engines anyway (because, like the original game, most source ports treat monsters as infinitely tall and won't allow you to stack them without making them stuck).

Old Post 05-27-11 05:43 #
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Du Mhan Yhu
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That vid was awesome!

Old Post 05-29-11 00:25 #
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printz
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gemini09 said:
You should try to alter the Demon-actor's height, to like 54, and place about 100 hundred at the end of a hallway, so when they walk towards you, it will look horribly evil with the way they walk on top of and past each other to get their prey (you!)

I'm kinda tired and I forgot monsters don't climb steps higher than 16 (or something), but you could modify that too... :)

Eternity allows both Z-clipping and making monsters jump at any moment. Can Eternity monsters move over other monsters? Maybe if you combine the BOUNCES+FLOAT behavior with Z-clipping, you can make a monster jump over other monsters. But I know that some game versions with z-clipping don't allow monsters to move below other monsters. Does Eternity?

Old Post 05-29-11 07:16 #
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