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Aldaraia
Junior Member

Posts: 188
Registered: 04-09

I wasn't exactly sure on where to put this thread. I put it here since I figured it was an editing question in some nature, even though said question is not precisely a "technical" question. Either way..

When you make a map, what are your habits beyond the first few sectors? Do you go on and create a rough layout of what you plan the level to be, leaving details and monsters for last? Or do you work on all fronts at an even pace?

Many people have mapping down to an art and science. Can't say the same for me, with only one map released six years ago. Since meddling around with DB for years, I've started a new map for Heretic, currently in mapper's block mode, not surprising to me in the slightest.

However, a unrealized matter has made itself known to me, these are: the mindsets a mapper assumes and agenda towards completion. Consisting of map layout construction, optimizing gameplay/ peppering all those monsters in their respectable *cough*closets*cough* spots, while sculpting a steady level of architectural detail to create a fog of atmosphere and, most importantly, your vision. Even more important than that, I wonder, is the order of which of these subjects form your maps first, and in what volume. I find the matter curious and it must differ for each individual. Since there are no volunteers at the moment, I'll go first.

First off, if I get a potential map idea, I create the first rooms and keep adding other sections to it and detail a bit. This allows me to test, play around and get a feeling for the level and an idea of what, or what shouldn't come next. I try to think of what I wouldn't expect and apply that to the map. If I got a strong vision, I'll add to the layout, hopefully getting a decent amount of it done. When I feel I'm forcing myself to add on parts to the layout, instead of "going with the flow", I change fronts. I either detail/add monsters/adjust sector heights of what's done to my heart's content, or I exit and wait for ideas to pop up.

The next part I find tricky as its just undying commitment and patience to see the vision develop, too simple for me to start flings with other mapsets/ideas. Other things that I find vital is inspiration from the architectures of many medias of our world. Listening to music really kicks my ass into gear as well. Now I wonder if genres can have their own effect on the type of level..

Last edited by Aldaraia on 12-15-11 at 06:13

12-15-11 05:38 #

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Khorus
Strife!

Posts: 1129
Registered: 04-05

I have a one fully realized room in my mind before I touch the editor. Once I have that down the rest of the map is finished in my mind, it's simply a matter of going off the branches that this first room has. The inspiration comes very easily then.

I do everything room by room from the shape of the room, height variation, structures and finally gameplay before moving on. Even on my speed maps!

I've worked on several maps where I just created the layout of the entire map, then worked on height and structures and finally gameplay but I've never been happy with the results from doing this. They always turn out with too many flat level corridors rather than the rooms gracefully flowing from one to another.

I don't have problems with motivation. When I stopped comparing myself to others and stopped caring what others might think of the work, I was able to fly through the process.

Also, I only ever put doors in when I want a closed off area to be accessed later (keys, switches) or I actually want to slow the player down ie. cyberdemon up their ass. They slow the gameplay right down and interrupt flow.

Blah blah bl

12-15-11 08:58 #

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Phobus
Senior Member

Posts: 1468
Registered: 10-06

I've waxed lyrical on this many times now. (I'd get more examples up, but I've got a lot of posts here and on the zdoom forums). I've tried quite a range of mindsets, methods of progression and ways of planning in my mapping and my general conclusions are as follows:

-The results are largely the same, IMO

-The difference is in the journey
--If I've planned it all out in advance I don't find the ideas difficult, but I lose motivation quickly
--If I'm working on a small to mid-sized map planning is entirely optional, as having a vague idea can be enough of a driver
--Bigger maps for me tend to be more well planned, although I think this leads to linearity (either physically or in progression)
--I think the best planning is done in the editor, as that means you've already done some of the work when the plan is done

-Texture theming really is as easy as pie - a simple case of matching and contrasting colours is usually enough to get through with the standard Doom resources, regardless of the "theme" they are intended for

-I prefer working on smaller maps as it is easier to carry them through from both motiviational and inspirational standpoints

Last edited by Phobus on 12-15-11 at 13:33

12-15-11 13:20 #

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phobosdeimos1
Member

Posts: 625
Registered: 03-11

You can never have enough of these threads!

I always use a new fad while creating maps in order for them to have a recognisable style, but as I always think up new fads it ironically means that none of my maps have the same style.

Ever find it really hard to map somedays and easy on others?
Join the other millions of budding mappers, it is one of the biggest problems any amateur level designer faces. The ones who can endlessley create original maps get paid level designing positions.

12-16-11 08:11 #

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Phml
Forum Staple

Posts: 2031
Registered: 06-09

The ones who can endlessley create original maps get paid level designing positions.

I don't think you've taken a look at level design in first person shooters for about, oh, the last decade or so. ;)

Commercial AAA shooter mapping is about "realistic" locations, fancy lightning, and optimizations so each leave of grass can be as detailed as possible while still running at ~30 FPS on a Xbox. They make the architecture first and then eventually think about gameplay (if throwing infinitely respawning generic military dudes can be called thinking).

I mean, that's my best guess. Looking at the end results, it would be tragically sad if professional level designers were actually trying to do level design.

12-16-11 11:04 #

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Grain of Salt
Member

Posts: 629
Registered: 12-10

I mainly fly around in 3D mode and frown at stuff.

12-16-11 11:31 #

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Vordakk
Forum Regular

Posts: 862
Registered: 07-10

Khorus said:
I have a one fully realized room in my mind before I touch the editor. Once I have that down the rest of the map is finished in my mind, it's simply a matter of going off the branches that this first room has. The inspiration comes very easily then.

It can be quite infuriating to read how easily mapping seems to come to you. But in the end it's a good thing because I like playing your stuff :)

12-16-11 14:53 #

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Khorus
Strife!

Posts: 1129
Registered: 04-05

Vordakk said:

It can be quite infuriating to read how easily mapping seems to come to you. But in the end it's a good thing because I like playing your stuff :)

Haha, thanks. :p If it helps you feel any better, there was a near 2 year period where I wasn't able to make a single room without hitting a wall of frustration.

12-16-11 17:13 #

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Megamur
Forum Regular

Posts: 970
Registered: 02-11

I've never built a complete map before. The closest I ever came was when I drew the map out on paper first. Erasing pencil lines was much easier than deleting sectors, I found. After I drew up a good chunk of the map, I started to build. Humorously enough, I reconstructed in the editor basically everything I'd drawn on the paper...and absolutely nothing else. Once I no longer had my paper guide to work from, my mind blanked.

The end result is me having a bunch of pieces of paper with half-drawn maps on them scattered throughout my sketchbooks. On the plus side, even though I hit roadblocks no matter which way I do it, at least drawing the maps on paper is a shorter waste of time. :)

12-16-11 23:30 #

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ChrisF
Newbie

Posts: 5
Registered: 11-11

A (possibly) interesting discussion point is how the raw technicalities affect the creative side of one's map-making process.

I say that because texture alignment is the only thing that's really slowed me down so far. I'll complete a room, align the textures so all of the bricks match up nicely all the way around each doorway, window, etc. -- and then add a few more rooms with the same texture, because I want the theme to be consistent for a while, so that any upcoming variations are effectively striking in comparison when the player reaches them.

But every time I add new flats -- especially if there are differences in the room heights, obviously -- they start out of alignment, so I auto-align them, which throws off the prior alignments.

So while ideas are never lacking, I've been frustratingly aligning textures manually, one flat at a time, for weeks. I find it affecting how much courage I have to include windows, weird angles, and anything else that might throw off the alignment. There must be an easier way.

12-16-11 23:40 #

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Mithran Denizen
Senior Member

Posts: 1093
Registered: 05-10

ChrisF said:
they start out of alignment, so I auto-align them, which throws off the prior alignments.

In Doom Builder 2's visual mode, you can highlight all the sides/textures that you want to align in an area by left-clicking on them; the autoalign functions (hotkeys A and Shift+A) will then only align the textures on those selected lines.

12-17-11 00:02 #

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ChrisF
Newbie

Posts: 5
Registered: 11-11

Thanks; that's definitely good to know. It will give me more incentive to save up for a PC that can handle anything beyond DB1!

12-17-11 00:51 #

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darkreaver
Senior Member

Posts: 1106
Registered: 05-08

I open DB, then I rage quit within seconds, then I snort cocaine and rage fuck a random chick (with big tits)

12-17-11 05:55 #

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Phobus
Senior Member

Posts: 1468
Registered: 10-06

darkreaver said:
I open DB, then I rage quit within seconds, then I snort cocaine and rage fuck a random chick (with big tits)

Sounds like my 2010, where I'd "quit" mapping and dedicated a healthy chunk of time to drinking 2-3 days a week. I got better.

12-17-11 19:03 #

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