Cyberdemon
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom Editing > How to make reflective floors in Vanilla?
 
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12


This map has an example of reflective floors(among other neat stuff) , and I would dearly love to know how to duplicate this feat. Due to this being made in 1996, I'm pretty sure it's for vanilla. I tried dissecting it in Doom Builder but no dice. :/ Does anyone know how to make this?

Old Post 10-24-12 08:39 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Reinchard666
Member


Posts: 350
Registered: 05-08


I guess this is PrBoom map.

Old Post 10-24-12 09:44 #
Reinchard666 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12



Reinchard666 said:
I guess this is PrBoom map.


Nope. Like I said, it was made in 1996

Old Post 10-24-12 10:20 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
GreyGhost
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 8633
Registered: 01-08


That's an interesting effect which apparently only works with software renderers. Looks like the trick relies on the renderer being confused by linedefs facing different sectors (24 and 25) for which there's no dividing line, I'll try replicating it later. The upside-down supermodel is a separate texture offset into the floor, so it's not a true reflection.

Old Post 10-24-12 10:50 #
GreyGhost is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12



GreyGhost said:
That's an interesting effect which apparently only works with software renderers. Looks like the trick relies on the renderer being confused by linedefs facing different sectors (24 and 25) for which there's no dividing line, I'll try replicating it later. The upside-down supermodel is a separate texture offset into the floor, so it's not a true reflection.


...I was wondering why that was there. If you could help me replicate it I'd be very grateful. :-)

Old Post 10-24-12 11:10 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 12369
Registered: 07-06


I'll be damned...even works in Mocha Doom :-o

Edit: as to how it's done, after some dissecting with XWE, it's a complex trick based on overlapping sectors and using darker wall and floor textures (not different light levels). The "under the floor" walls you see are actuall darker MIDDLE textures that are bleeding below the real floor you're stepping on.

Find sectors 24, 25 & 26 and see what I'm talking about. Sector 25 is wall-thin, semi-closed and carries only the wall textures at "floor level". Sector 24 is what you are walking on, and its walls carry either the dark textures (offset by -128, so they "bleed" under the floor. Sector 26 is mostly not visible (it forms certain rooms outside the walkable area of the map), but some of its walls carry is probably used in order to aid forming a closed sector for 25.

The "reflected" sprites are actually two separate masked textures on two different -but very close- linedefs. One is visible above the floor, the other one is darker, reversed, and is drawn with a negative offset.

The overall effect is similar to Boom's "transfer ceilings", somewhat.

Surprisingly, no light level or even height variations are present: all trick sectors (as well as Sector 24, the one you're walking in) have the same floor and ceiling heights (0 and 128). Not even self-referencing sectors are used: this is a different boundary-pushing trick.

Last edited by Maes on 10-24-12 at 12:33

Old Post 10-24-12 12:03 #
Maes is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Memfis
Forum Legend


Posts: 5498
Registered: 04-07


Oh, I remember this wad. Would be very interested in a detailed explanation of that floor trick.

Old Post 10-24-12 12:11 #
Memfis is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 12369
Registered: 07-06


If you like WADs with special visual effects, don't miss out on DoomonstrationGame. It's a Boom map, but it's semi-playable in vanilla and limit-removing ports, allowing you to see some of the effects.

Old Post 10-24-12 12:42 #
Maes is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 797
Registered: 07-09


I don't think you will be able to achieve the overlapping sectors in this MAP in DB2, if you try and drag them like that they would just merge. In DB1 however you can do it by dragging and dropping sectors then using undo once which should only unstitch the verticies of your last move. I tried a slight variation of this idea....

http://www.mediafire.com/?ybymcd5w5gkrei9

Aptly named "cheesyeffect.wad" after how silly this whole trick is.

Last edited by Pottus on 10-24-12 at 14:02

Old Post 10-24-12 13:57 #
Pottus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Phobus
Forum Staple


Posts: 2880
Registered: 10-06


You know you can turn off stitching and alter the sectors that sidedefs reference when necessary, right? DB2 certainly can be used to map out anything you'd want to.

Old Post 10-24-12 14:14 #
Phobus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 797
Registered: 07-09


No Phobus there does not appear to be any option other than "Stitch Geometry Within" even if you set it to 0px it will still merge geometry thus DB2 does not yield the desired results.

edit - Discovered a couple of ways just now align the sector you want to overlap on the X or Y find the distance between verticies edit all verticies of the given sector to move for example --DISTANCE ++DISTANCE. Using edit mode can also produce the desired result by using the absolute option in the same manner as listed above.

Last edited by Pottus on 10-24-12 at 14:44

Old Post 10-24-12 14:33 #
Pottus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Maes
I like big butts!


Posts: 12369
Registered: 07-06


This falls clearly into the category of effects that are easier (or at all possible) to perform with a "do less" kind of editor, like DEU. Even if you find a workaround in DB1 and DB2, God Forbid if you have to split things again and make any changes....

Old Post 10-24-12 16:05 #
Maes is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
40oz
Forum Spammer


Posts: 6654
Registered: 08-07


If you've ever worked with MIDBARS-like textures, you may have noticed that unless you change the floor texture or the lighting between two adjacent sectors, the texture will "bleed" into the floor, meaning you can see the texture even though a section of it is blatantly under the height of the floor.

The way this map does it (because I've studied it before myself) is that it does the same thing using a wall texture instead of MIDBARS, and uses a custom texture that looks like a vertically mirrored version of the walls, and darkened to look translucent with the dark color of the floor, simulating Boom's translucent wall texture effect.

It looks pretty cool but it does involve having to add a good bit of new textures to your wad, especially if you want your room with the reflective floors to have more than just one plain brick texture, and it will only look believable if the reflecting floor doesnt have an easily distinguishable pattern like square or hexagon tiles or even water.

Old Post 10-24-12 18:35 #
40oz is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


Posts: 6509
Registered: 01-02



Pottus said:
No Phobus there does not appear to be any option other than "Stitch Geometry Within" even if you set it to 0px it will still merge geometry thus DB2 does not yield the desired results.

edit - Discovered a couple of ways just now align the sector you want to overlap on the X or Y find the distance between verticies edit all verticies of the given sector to move for example --DISTANCE ++DISTANCE. Using edit mode can also produce the desired result by using the absolute option in the same manner as listed above.


No, Pottus... You literally just have to press / to disable Snap to Geometry.

Old Post 10-24-12 18:51 #
esselfortium is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 797
Registered: 07-09


That does work, but you still need to set the stitch range to 0.

Old Post 10-24-12 19:58 #
Pottus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12


So, any progress?

Old Post 10-25-12 10:18 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12


:)

Old Post 10-26-12 10:23 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member


Posts: 2404
Registered: 03-09


Hasn't it already be worked out? It's just a bleeding midtexture on an overlapping sector.

Old Post 10-26-12 18:49 #
Dragonsbrethren is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12


Yeah, but I have no idea how to pull that off. X-D

Old Post 10-26-12 22:47 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 797
Registered: 07-09


It's a lame effect anyways if you want to pull anything off jerk off lol!

Old Post 10-26-12 23:07 #
Pottus is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Obsidian
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 05-12



Pottus said:
It's a lame effect anyways if you want to pull anything off jerk off lol!


Ummmm...

Old Post 10-26-12 23:20 #
Obsidian is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member


Posts: 2404
Registered: 03-09



Obsidian said:
Yeah, but I have no idea how to pull that off. X-D

1. Draw a sector, set its height no greater than 128 units.
2. Draw an identically shaped sector inside of it with identical properties. While you can actually overlap them, it's probably easier to just leave a 1 unit gap between the sectors.
3. Assign midtextures that match those of the out ("top") sector to the inner ("reflection") sector's linedefs. Custom textures will make this more convincing (mirrored, slightly darker to give the illusion of a floor).
4. Give the mid textures a negative offset that matches the top sector's height.

The flat you choose is pretty critical to making it look right, too. When I did it with DB2's default textures, the flat looked pretty bizarre while the reflection effect seemed perfect, barring the lack of mirroring. The flat was being rendered normally, but the reflection effect is so convincing that the flat looked like a floating, distorting mess when moving around.

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 10-26-12 at 23:53

Old Post 10-26-12 23:36 #
Dragonsbrethren is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
 
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > Doom Editing > How to make reflective floors in Vanilla?

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.