First, look at these images. I didn't use thumbnails because I wanted you to immediately see all the detail:
Every time I see a map like this, I stand in awe. I'm so much astonished by all that detail, that curves, how that pipes on ceiling goes "across" that structures on floor, how it all looks so uniform and clean, yet amazing. (and in the game it always actually looks even better than on the automap) I'm impressed so much that every such map I play immediately wins permanent five stars for me, even if it turns into a horrible unplayable slaughtermap. I just feel I cannot go to the author and blather about how I disliked this and that.
To top of that, it seems such details aren't that hard to make. I see them being used even in speedmaps, or maps that I know they were made in a short time. Also, I noticed that other (advanced) mappers than me are not so impressed by those details, it's like if they consider them "normal", "standard", "classic", or sometimes even "boring", and then nitpick so little flaws on them that I sometimes feel like a slight anger. (no, I'm not complaining about anybody in particular, just about how the great maps I appreciate aren't so appreciated by others) Or they make a superb-looking map in few days and consider it not so good themselves and rework details. (admitted, now I mean cb)
Now compare the previous shots with these:
This is how it looks when I am going for detail. And I hope you see the difference too. I'm NOT going to talk at all about which maps are less and which more detailed, or which are worse and which better, it's without argument that everything is about skill and experience and all. But that's not my point.
My point is that mapping any detail is extremely painful for me. Every of the more detailed areas in the shots was modified like dozen times before I was half satisfied with it, and it took whole days and weeks and in some cases, months. It surely has to do with my technique, which is that I throw random sectors in, then go to 3D editing mode and view the change from all angles, and then if it doesn't look better, I undo the change and start again. As you see, the result is not uniform/clean design apparent on the pro-shots at the beginning of the post. It rather looks chaotic, often plays chaotic too, and they usually looks worse in the game than on the map, unlike what I said about the other's "pro" maps.
To sum it up - I would of course like to learn how to make maps (and details) with such an elegance and speed and ease, and from what I see, it isn't that painful for others. So if you can make maps of the type of the first four screenshots, I'd ask you and beg you if you could disclose how you do it, as I and other mappers with not-yet-polished-style would really really appreciate it.
Pretty please :)
EDIT: Sources of pictures (in that order):
Zones of Fear MAP05 (Damned); Stardate 20X6 MAP03 (Ribbiks); Doomworld Mega Project 2013 submission (cannonball); CC4 MAP19 (Joshy); Reviving Doom demo MAP16 (me); 321 Doom 3 to Doom 1 demo E1M1 (me); abandoned map for Mayhem 2013 (me); Doom 2 in Name Only MAP19 (me)
Last edited by scifista42 on 07-24-13 at 19:44