Am I THAT wrong??

A lucky escape! I'm keeping my eye on you though, since you knew we were talking about the PSX Doom tracks...

FirebrandX said:

They are merely a set of instructions for using 1 to 3 midi samples at varying frequencies. For example, the first track only uses 2 midi samples.

hey that's interesting come to think of it. Yes the tracks on the Saturn version are made up this way, i used to play the game under headphones and noticed the tracks are nothing more then a few samples played as you stated. But instead of a midi stream, they're simply redbooked. My bad, i assumed the psx version was the same. Pretty neat though.

Yeah, as a result, the PSX doom tracks are merely a few k in size. In fact, the entire Doom program with all 59 levels takes up only 6 minutes of the CD! This means they could have fit something like 500 levels on one CD. All that would need to be removed are the standard audio files for the titles and credits.


Edit: I shouldn't actually call them midi samples. Whatever they are, you can use a program called "psound" to extract them into wave files.

dsm said:
I'm certainly not surprised that one of the guys who flamed you happened to be Crendowing. That guy just ended up acting like a jerk when he was here.

Heh he hehe... Am I the only one who thinks he's secretly in love with Ling? He’s obsessed with him! It’s like he’s trying to cover something up...

FirebrandX said:

...the entire Doom program with all 59 levels takes up only 6 minutes of the CD! This means they could have fit something like 500 levels on one CD.

Or at least the Arch-Vile. : /

CyRaptor said:

Or at least the Arch-Vile. :/

Strange... Why that second message?

FirebrandX said:

Big problem with ZdoomGL: No mouse scroll-wheel for weapons. That's an automatic F on the report card.

LOL. Be a man, use the number keys.

I think a bigger problem with the current ZDoomGL is its unstability. That will change quite soon though...

I'm still getting emails from people drooling over the weapon models I used in those pictures I made. There seems to be confusion on where to find them, so here's the direct link:


ftp://jfiles:jfiles@server1.thefourwinds.net/jdoom/abbs/Abbspack-V2.exe

There are 2 packs in the download. One is the "Fullpack" and the other is the "alternate" pack. You'll want to use the fullpack for normal Doom weapons like the ones in my pictures. If you try the alternate pack, there will be different weapons for the plasma rifle and BFG.

Also, check out abbs "alternate item models" as well (you can download them from the Doomsday HQ 3D models page). He's made them even better looking than the last ones I was using. The Soul Sphere has to be seen in action!

SlayeR said:

LOL. Be a man, use the number keys.

HELL NO!! I got hooked on wheel scroll after playing Unreal Tournament for thousands of hours. I'll be damned if I have to start hunting the keyboard for numbers while running for my life ;-)

Well, I was just saying, no scrollwheel support is hardly a reason to dismiss a source port as 'F grade'.

EDIT: Oh and that abbs model pack refuses to load. KickStart would have to be the worst frontend ever. (Actually thats another reason I like zdoom better, its much much easier to start up, and it doesnt take as long to load up either)

Actually, you have to know what you are doing first in order to get it to work. There is a learning curve to using Jdoom, but once you master the .ded file system, YOU get to decide what special FX you want and how they look. I actually quite enjoy the Kickstart loader, I just wish it supported Boomsday as well.

As for ZdoomGl, sorry but I got to have scroll wheel. I can't use any port that doesn't have scroll wheel support. Perhaps a grade of "I" would be more appropriate. In any case, it doesn't touch my hard drive without scroll wheel. It's not like I'm asking for it to wipe my ass or anything.

FirebrandX said:

Actually, you have to know what you are doing first in order to get it to work. There is a learning curve to using Jdoom, but once you master the .ded file system, YOU get to decide what special FX you want and how they look. I actually quite enjoy the Kickstart loader, I just wish it supported Boomsday as well.

Well thats yet another thing. ZDoom has pretty much no 'learning curve' whatsoever. You run the executable just like you'd run normal doom.exe.

Oh, and the next release of ZDoomGL supports the mousewheel.

Here's a quick step to getting the Abbs weapons to work on jdoom without using the Kickstart loader:

1. Go into the "Defs/jDoom" directory and find the "Models.ded".

2. Edit the Models.ded file by adding in a "#" in front of the line that reads 'Include "HUDWeapons.ded";'. You can also do this for the monster models line as I have done.

3. Now add in the following line below the other 'Include' lines: Include "Fullpack.ded";

This will force the fullpack abb weapons to be used on default so long as you have installed the abbs packs properly.

SlayeR said:

Well thats yet another thing. ZDoom has pretty much no 'learning curve' whatsoever. You run the executable just like you'd run normal doom.exe.

And you don't get any cool visuals as a result. The thing you are forgetting is that you can just as easily run jdoom without learning how to use the extra features. Simply because they are there as an option doesn't mean you can use them as a point of debate.

Look at it this way:

There are DVD players in front of you. One only has a "Play" button, while the other has a thousand other picture settings buttons, jog dials, etc. that are hard to figure out. You can just as easily press "Play" on the complicated DVD player as you can on the basic model. Nothings stops you from doing this at all.

What your argument does is actually count the extra complicated features as a mark against the DVD player, when all you'd need to do is simply not worry about them. Same with Jdoom. Yeah, the extra features must be learned how to use, but that doesn't stop you from pressing "Play". Catch my drift?

JDoom isn't what I call simple to start. The launcher either comes up with an error or crashes when I try to use it, and the only other option is to use batch files to start it. I find simply clicking on the zdoom.exe icon much simpler.

And 'cool visuals' dont mean as much to me as better editing/general features.

You probably were going to hate whatever you saw anyway. You stick with Zdoom, and I'll stick with whatever I like.

SlayeR said:

And 'cool visuals' dont mean as much to me as better editing/general features.

I couldn't care less about the better editing if the graphics are weak. It's like going to a fancy, expensive restaurant and ordering a Filet Mignon served on a dirty ash tray.

Edit: Okay, so maybe that was a little harsh, but I still prefer jdoom whenever possible. End of debate.

You probably were going to hate whatever you saw anyway.

I never said I couldn't get JDoom to run. If I hadn't tried it, I wouldn't have a reason to like ZDoom better would I?

I couldn't care less about the better editing if the graphics are weak. It's like going to a fancy, expensive restaurant and ordering a Filet Mignon served on a dirty ash tray.

Heh, although you do have a point, graphics aren't everything either. It's like covering dog shit with a pretty wrapper.

You stick with Zdoom, and I'll stick with whatever I like.

Yeah, no point in arguing, since we're obviously not going to change eachothers opinions anyway :P

Just one more point and then I'm done:

SlayeR said:

Heh, although you do have a point, graphics aren't everything either. It's like covering dog shit with a pretty wrapper.

Then you are calling Doom dog shit. Because that's what jdoom plays.

No I wasn't calling doom dog shit (heh I knew you would say that too), I was just attempting to make a point. Improving the graphics doesn't make a game any more fun or interesting. And, being a mapper myself, I'd much rather have more editing features to play around with, to make better levels.

Christ on a bike! Whatever happened to all the "flaming people because of their source port preferences is lame" stuff?

Grazza said:

Christ on a bike! Whatever happened to all the "flaming people because of their source port preferences is lame" stuff?

Heh well I wouldn't exactly call it flaming going on here. More like 'arguing' :P

Anyway I'm finished with it. Arguing about opinions is pointless.

Slayer and I both are guilty as charged. The truth is we like different things. I like to edit graphics, he likes to edit levels. To each their own.

JDoom can't run on my comp (at least not without a single digit FPS), so i'd let you guess which one i like better ;)




BTW, isn't that topic belong to the "source port" forum? :\

SlayeR said:

JDoom isn't what I call simple to start. The launcher either comes up with an error or crashes when I try to use it, and the only other option is to use batch files to start it. I find simply clicking on the zdoom.exe icon much simpler.

Are you using Kickstart2 made by Cheb, or the default kickstart? Kickstart made by Cheb is unstable still and crashes on my computer as well. If you use the other kickstart it will run fine...

Ichor said:

Strange... Why that second message?

Probably to get his 250th post (and the inevitable fish).

Mr. NobodX said:

BTW, isn't that topic belong to the "source port" forum? :\

Not exactly. The reason being because my topic was not about the source ports themselves, but rather the people who jump down your throat for not liking something they like.

Zdoom vs. Jdoom?

Hmm, I used to be a zdoom fanatic some time ago, but now I use it only in wads that need it. Zdoom IS good port, because the special effects and good stability, but I don't like it because of the poor resolution. And if I switch to higher resolutions i get plenty of framerate problems.

In ZdoomGL I also get too much framerate poblems. My computer really sucks :( And I NEED mousewheel.

Jdoom = framerate problems. I have nothing against the monster md2 models, they were quite cool. But because my computer can't handle them I don't use them. I didn't like the weapon models that much. In Jdoom monsters look ugly if you use original sprite graphics. I don't like the dirthening.

I prefer legacy: it's a bit buggy and OpenGL causes problems especially with older wads, but when I found out of GLbsp my problems were gone. I just run it with every wad I use.

Oh, one thing about Doomsday engine. Is this something i've done wrong or what: the monsters turn very ugly when they move. I get the impression they're feet doesn't touch the ground at all. Looks stupid.

It's tough to say. I don't use monster models, so I wouldn't know on that end. The sprites seem perfectly fine on my system. I guess Jdoom is meant for Voodoo cards, because my 5500 lets me play it at 80fps on 1024x760. You ever see Unreal Tournament on a Leet machine? Well, that's what Jdoom looks like on my setup. I've had people swear I was playing a U.T. converted Doom stage when they saw me playing Jdoom.

I can understand that it doesn't work for everybody. I'm just very thankful for what it does on my system!

FirebrandX said:

It's tough to say. I don't use monster models, so I wouldn't know on that end. The sprites seem perfectly fine on my system.

I meant without the monster models. Maybe I should have not put hexen and heretic in the same folder? And what I don't like about the Jdoom textures is the dirthening, or what is it called. I wasn't able to turn it off.