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DooMBoy
Heh
(but Stupidity still cannot be concealed)

Posts: 8115
Registered: 12-00

Dude, just saw the new Shockwave Doom game. It looks awesome! Everything's anti-aliased, meaning there's no pixelization. You could change your viewpoint using the n and m keys. It was E1M1 from Doom/Ultimate Doom, and there were no enemies in the level as yet, but all the pick-ups such as Health and Armor Pick-ups were in the right places. There were a few things added. All the secret doors you could open were open already and moving up and down. The Rocket Launcher was in the pool of acid where you get the Blue Armor, and there were a couple of Rocket Boxes stashed around the outside area. You couldn't pick anything up yet, but the collision detection was turned on(you could turn it off as well.) One thing I didn't like was the sky. You could see the walls of the crater that the base was in, but the sky was too blue for a Doom game. This is probably because it was only about 1% done.
However, if somehow the guy doing this is able to re-create the entire game(if he CAN re-create the whole Doom) to look this good, then we'll be playing Shockwave Doom sometime within the near future.

06-14-01 17:12 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

Thanks for the praise :)

A few comments -

- I'm not trying to re-create Doom itself, merely using the WAD as my level data, so I can design my games using something like DeepSea. I like Doom because it's essentailly a 2D game (regarding collision detection etc), and a Doom WAD contains so much useful info that to replicate it I'd have to create my own level editor from scratch. Sod that!

So, for example, I'll not be supporting all lineDef trigger types (a lot have been collapsed down, eg fast doors simply become doors), and some of the animated sector types aren't in. There'll be a variety of differences, but when I'm done I'll publish a doc containing what it can and can't do and probably release a version for you to import your own levels in and chuck up on line.

Also, I'll implement other stuff not Doom specific (eg 3D models instead of monsters, new ones etc, animated and interactive scenery, sloping / uneven floors / walls / ceilings etc. Also, coloured sectors is in, coloured real-time lighting MAY make it in, as well as possibly lightmaps.

Ulitmately it'll be multi-playter online. My dream (?) is to create a version with some popular levels (NOT Doom's originals - can we say copyright?) and bung it all together in a version you guys can have in your websites. People go there, log on, and begin killing!

So there you go! I'm about to embark on (for me) the biggest part of the code - collision detection and the blockmap. Once this is done things should move quickly along, although how long this stage will take I dunno. Could be up to a month - I need to make sure I get it 100% correct.

Any time I do a major update I'll keep you guys posted.

Oh, and I'll be producing a variety of versions, eg:
Fixed size
Fill browser window
Minimal download (lower res graphics / audio)
Versions for websites
Versions to download and run from computer

If anyone wants to comment or suggest things for me to include then let me know at gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

06-14-01 18:21 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

Oh, and the reason there are so many items is because I'm not bothering to check what difficulty level they appear in, so I'm drawing all of them!

The new version I'll be uploading will hopefully fix transparency problems for open GL users (mostly macs), as well as having an 'interesting' colouring option (colour sectors, either dark, red green or blue), which found it's way in while I was testing sector colouring.

Oh, and the sky? I just wanted to brighten the scene up a little!

06-14-01 18:27 #

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Zaldron
Sex Cauldron

Posts: 9917
Registered: 08-00

You chose a strange platform for your game. Specially if we list the differences between the C++ code of DooM and Shock's code...

06-14-01 18:47 #

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DooMBoy
Heh
(but Stupidity still cannot be concealed)

Posts: 8115
Registered: 12-00

Hey, the level seemed fun even without monsters in!
Could you please, please, at least, do the Shareware Episode of Doom with this Shockwave stuff? I would love to see more than just one level with this kind of graphics, and other such stuff, it's just so cool. What do you say? At least please do the Shareware Episode of Doom. I'll give you a Cookie!

06-14-01 18:51 #

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Jon
Freedoom Bloke

Posts: 1334
Registered: 09-00

I can't find it

06-14-01 18:57 #

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DooMBoy
Heh
(but Stupidity still cannot be concealed)

Posts: 8115
Registered: 12-00

Go to the main page of DW; it's the third news story down from the top of the page.

06-14-01 19:11 #

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Disorder
Boards of Canada

Posts: 3977
Registered: 09-00

I just watched it. It's very, very nice.
Graphics are awesome and it runs smoothly on my PII 300... Well done.

06-14-01 20:00 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

You chose a strange platform for your game. Specially if we list the differences between the C++ code of DooM and Shock's code...

That's why I'm not aiming to recreate Doom 100% - I am going to have to write the whole engine from scratch, and I don't want people to sit there pointing out every 1 pixel difference, or ability to see with a slightly different FOV etc.

As for my choice of poatform, well, I know Director extremely well. Also, I don't have to worry about rendering issues - I automatically get a choice of open gl, DX5 and DX7, as well as a (pants) software mode.

It's completely Mac / PC compatible, with the possibility of other platforms in the future, and it can be easily embedded in a web-site using a plug-in that 50% of all browsers have in one form or another.

I reckon pretty good reasons all in all!

06-14-01 20:51 #

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DooMBoy
Heh
(but Stupidity still cannot be concealed)

Posts: 8115
Registered: 12-00

So, are you going to do that Shareware Doom I was ranting about earlier? I've never Doom look so good, before. So pretty! How about it?

06-14-01 21:10 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 12323
Registered: 05-00

I think this thing looks really great. Runs so smooth too. You ought to have different versions, one with JPEG-compressed images and one without (for us with high-speed connections).

06-14-01 22:25 #

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NiGHTMARE
Forum Legend

Posts: 4970
Registered: 05-00

It's very nice indeed.

06-14-01 22:33 #

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Shaviro
Team Future Chief

Posts: 10750
Registered: 06-00

oh yes.

06-14-01 22:48 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

I have no idea why I've shown up with anonymous details, I thought I'd set my preferences to remember me in a cookie. Obviously not. Anyway, the above two posts were me :)

06-14-01 23:39 #

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LorD BaZTArD
My SHiFt KEy iS bROKeN

Posts: 992
Registered: 03-01

Hey. Your Shockwave doom Rules.

Two Things

Are you going to put changeble controls in at all?

Or is that Impossible?

Also Who did the music?

But otherwise = SWEET

06-15-01 14:37 #

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L�t
YA-HA

Posts: 12323
Registered: 05-00

Am also considering how to make stuff useful for WAD editors. Current thinking is: You supply all textures on your website together with a text file listing all the textures, levels and mods (to be decided by me :)

Hey, that's a really cool idea - projects could offer true previews of upcoming maps or demos for their conversions! That rules, I know I'd use that.

06-15-01 15:57 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

For everyone who replied personally with feedback, here's an update:
I've hopefully fixed all mac / open gl / resizing probs.

Now open gl should work fine (no white boxes around sprites), which means Mac users can see it how it should be.
Also, the view resizes to fill the browser window, so you can have it filling the screen (practically) or play postage-stamp-sized doom :) This now works in Netscape as well (there was a version up briefly that didn't).

Also, right-clicking (PC) or control-clicking (Mac) on the view allows you to change options (eg renderer).

Also, try the keys d, f, g, h or j to 'paint' your way around the sectors.

Mainly a bug fix release

Oh, also, I've halved file size (now 450k) and all textures are compressed losslessly for better quality. Bargain.

06-16-01 13:48 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

Hey. Your Shockwave doom Rules.

Two Things

Are you going to put changeble controls in at all?

Or is that Impossible?

Also Who did the music?

But otherwise = SWEET

Changeable controls:

Yes, ultimately. Shockwave is very annoying in some of it's limitations though for keyboards, so prepare to be annoyed:
It can read a maximum of 3 standard keys at once.
It can't read function keys
It can't read num-pad keys (AARGGHH!)
It can read SHIFT as an extra key

So limitations will be:
alphanumeric keys
cursor keys
shift

That's it.
Mouse control is to be decidied as to how it's implemented. When I get a better version I'll be polling you guys to see what you think I should do.

Music:

A fantastic guy called Chris Huelsbeck. The list of his game music reads like my childhood favourite song list :)
He did the music to games like Turrican! The current snips are taken from the theme music to Z-Out. I'm well chuffed to be able to license his music. It's costing me but sod it - there's no way I can do high quality music myself. I suggest you go to:

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/24/chris_hlsbeck.html

Grab his megamix - it's a particularly nice intro to his work. Oh, and go buy some of his CD's (shameless plug cos I love his work!)

06-16-01 13:57 #

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Speshul Eddy
Junior Member

Posts: 41
Registered: 03-01

Hey, that is pretty damn slick. =)

I remember speculating with a friend a while back that at some point, a shooter like Doom would essentially be able to run as a Java applet.

Now, I know Shockwave is a little different than that, but the result is basically the same.

Very awsome, keep it up. ^__^

06-17-01 20:38 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

That Shockwave Doom is great! People are doing some cool stuff with the new Shockwave 3D.

Not as many as you'd think though - most people are still stuck at the 'importing' stage, even when they can do it direct from 3DS Max and stuff :)

Btw, also check out some Quake levels another guy (NoiseCrime) has brought into Shockwave:

Heh, me and Noisecrime are friends :)
We often wind each other up to do something better than the other.
Sad to say, he's given up (for now) on creating Quake in a browser, because he can't work out how to do collision detection properly. It's one thing to display a model (and Q3 levels are simple to convert, compared to Doom WADs :) but it's another to interact with it, which is why I am going to make sure I take plenty of time in Doom, 'cos basically if you get this wrong you'll end up with a rubbish feeling game whatever everything else is!

If you want an example of a really really RUBBISH fps done in Shockwave then go to:

http://www.clevermedia.com/3d/charon.html

You can see why I'm not exactly worried about the competition ;)

06-19-01 21:22 #

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elbryan42
Your Friendly Neighborhood Cacodemon

Posts: 1467
Registered: 11-00

very nice.

06-20-01 09:52 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

i dont know about this whole shockwave thing.

Nor do most people. Since I use it for a living I'm trying to make sure there's popular stuff out there that IS good. To this end I intend to work in as much feedback from people like you lot as possible.

i have allways hated all the sorce ports that say they are gonna make my doom game look good when they dont. this shockwave thing is the only thing that has actually made doom looked better, alot, and i am impressed.

Thanks! But do none of the other ports that use HW acceleration work for you? (I have to say, most don't work on my computer or are lazy with their sector -> triangle decomposition, eg holes don't get created which is stupid).

my only problem is how you turn. i know i am retarded but it took me forever just to get up the frieken stairs.

Controls are a real sticking point for me. I'm going to make it customisable as much as I can, but there's severe limitations when working in a browser. Suffice to say that when the time comes I'll be polling people for feedback on this.

and your right, that one game is really trashy.

06-20-01 16:02 #

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Gerbil
Green Marine

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-01

I've recently updated my site as part of the beginnings of a site revamp. The new url for the shockwave doom demo is:
http://www.theburrow.co.uk/d85/demos/3dgame.htm
although I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, I've set the old URL to redirect you to the new page.

06-21-01 14:34 #

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