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læmænt
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Phew. I just installed Linux-Mandrake 8.0, dual boot with win2k.
What strikes me as rather strange and unexpected is that it actually works much slower than windows. Sucks :)

To make it somehow doom-related: I'm downloading source port right now (If i figure out how)

Old Post 08-07-01 08:51 #
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Zaldron
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Wait for deadnail's response. Then for fraggle's one...heheh

Old Post 08-07-01 09:16 #
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deadnail
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Oh yeah, Linux isn't about speed. It is about raw, unbridled freeness that you pay $40 to $80 in a store for. It is all about the community, which is mostly raging assholes fed up with people trying their OS. It is all about choice, people choosing to use an OS that is only suited to running servers.

You don't see me word processing on my Super Nintendo.

Old Post 08-07-01 14:40 #
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fraggle
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Phew. I just installed Linux-Mandrake 8.0, dual boot with win2k.
What strikes me as rather strange and unexpected is that it actually works much slower than windows. Sucks :)

To make it somehow doom-related: I'm downloading source port right now (If i figure out how)

Are you using GNOME or KDE? KDE is much better than GNOME (GNOME = the skank)

Old Post 08-07-01 15:52 #
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fraggle
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Sorry to seem like the stereotypical linux zealot here but I feel I must respond..

It is about raw, unbridled freeness that you pay $40 to $80 in a store for.

If you have the bandwidth, you can do as I did and download and burn your own CDs, and theres nothing illegal about it. Thats about $2 I paid for my copy of debian. If you DONT have the bandwidth, you should find that there are plenty of mail order companies that sell cheap $5 Linux CD-Rs. You can buy the $40-$80 store copies but you have the freedom to simply download it if you want.

It is all about the community, which is mostly raging assholes fed up with people trying their OS.

I have to say I agree, there are a lot of assholes in the open source community.

It is all about choice, people choosing to use an OS that is only suited to running servers.

Linux is a Unix clone, and Unix has been used for over 10-15 years for running high end graphic workstations as well as servers. Apple are using a BSD Unix core to power their new Mac OS X. Draw your own conclusions.

The fact is that I prefer Linux because it is a more powerful system than Windows and I actually feel like I have proper control over my system. I had to rebuild my partition table by hand on Sunday and I seriously doubt I could have done it in Windows. If you take the time to learn how the system works you will have no problems, but if you simply view it as a windows clone you WILL be disappointed, because it isnt.

Old Post 08-07-01 16:12 #
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Lüt
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Wait for deadnail's response. Then for fraggle's one...heheh
OMG, way to call the shots! Jesus.

Old Post 08-07-01 16:17 #
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deadnail
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Linux is a Unix clone, and Unix has been used for over 10-15 years for running high end graphic workstations as well as servers. Apple are using a BSD Unix core to power their new Mac OS X. Draw your own conclusions.
Linux isn't Unix. BSD isn't MacX. They're all different in purpose.


The fact is that I prefer Linux because it is a more powerful system than Windows and I actually feel like I have proper control over my system. I had to rebuild my partition table by hand on Sunday and I seriously doubt I could have done it in Windows.
Although if you were using Windows I doubt your partition table would've been fucked to hell and back. =)


If you take the time to learn how the system works you will have no problems, but if you simply view it as a windows clone you WILL be disappointed, because it isnt.
Hard to learn if it locks up every fifteen minutes, runs slower than mud, and just takes a wrench to it's harddrive whenever it wants to.

I'm sure it runs great if you never do anything other than fire up a server and just sit back and watch the numbers roll by.

Damn Lüt, haven't you seen me and fraggle` discuss this crap before?

Old Post 08-07-01 16:47 #
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læmænt
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I'm using KDE. I'm thinking of choosing another manager (just for the fun of it, and maybe I can find something better).

The default browser here is Konqeror; which one should I use?

And deadnail, I got it for a price of one CD-R. Now, how much does Windows cost? (Well, yeah, it's pirated and I got it for free, but anyway :))

Old Post 08-07-01 17:22 #
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deadnail
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Yeah, well, you can keep telling yourself that Linux is superior to Windows in every way, shape, and form and maybe some day you'll believe it.

Windows isn't that expensive, given the fact that I can run SOFTWARE with it and how much shit comes integrated with it. Konqueror sucks but it was the best browser in Linux I saw, and sadly none of the browsers for Linux have really hit the Netscape 4 scale. KDE is slow, but Goddammit Gnome isn't even there... it's like watching snail's fuck.

The thing that bugs me about Linux is how fucking open sourced it is. Its like the penguin crowd won't even touch something unless it's open sourced. Oddly enough, all the best programs will get a Windoze version because the authors want more than 5000 people to use it.

C'mon. Star Office? It's buggier and slower than Microsoft Works ever was. KOffice? Hah, hahahah.

Corel and WordPerfect are about the only two fuckers that are really trying to get Linux out there.

Oh, and sure, I could've gone to lsl and ordered my copy for thirty bucks less but hey, what would it matter? I'm sure it still would've bombed out of the installer two times and KDE would've locked up just as much.

What a wonderful OS.

Old Post 08-07-01 17:29 #
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deadnail
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Oh yeah, by the way, did I mention:

All the fonts that come with it are pure shit, Windows 3.1 had a better fucking typography. Converting your fonts from Windows takes a ********** amount of time.

I couldn't burn CD's with it.

The GL support was horrible.

Every time I switched resolutions my monitor started doing some really crazy shit like it was frying itself. My video card is several years old for Chrissakes, wasn't that enough time to get it to work?

My USB Gamepad wouldn't work even though a generic driver is all I use in Windows.

No midi.

ZDoom refused to run.

Konqueror refused to read anything other than plain text off of my Windows drive.

Konqueror has pathetic support for CSS and apparantly the same table code as Netscape.

It was slower than fucking Hell, about as fast as my Windows is when I'm loading a 200 meg program like Poseur 4.

It was very, very fucking unstable.

Uninstalling it completely FUCKED my second harddrive, seemingly out of revenge or something. Fucking Mandrake can suck my cock. Even FDISK refuses to touch that drive now.

Oh yeah, and the boot loader decided to start spitting out 'LI' and hanging up. Let me see you get around that one without a bootable CD since it would force that on you before it even tried looking for a diskette.

Linux already has it's niche, in the background with as little shit running on it as possible so it's stable. For anything else it's open source mantra is the poison inside of it that keeps it unstable, slow, and years behind any commercial OS.

Old Post 08-07-01 17:38 #
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fraggle
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Linux isn't Unix. BSD isn't MacX. They're all different in purpose.

Linux is a free Unix kernel, the GNU utilities which most Linux distributions use are free clones of the Unix utilities. Technically Linux isnt Unix because it isnt derived from Unix code, but other than that they are identical. There are no real architectural differences between the two. MacOS X is a Unix system, so Apple are using Unix for a desktop system. Why then is it wrong to use Linux, another Unix system, for the desktop as well?


Although if you were using Windows I doubt your partition table would've been fucked to hell and back. =)

True but (a) how it happened isnt the point, the point is that I could fix it because I have the proper control over my system I need to fix it and (b) this is just one example of how Linux gives me proper control over my system.


Hard to learn if it locks up every fifteen minutes, runs slower than mud, and just takes a wrench to it's harddrive whenever it wants to.


It's hard to answer this one because none of this ever happens to me :). But i'll try to be helpful nonetheless. Were you running GNOME? Because I tried GNOME 1.4 a few months ago and I admit a lot of it is very very slow buggy crap.


I'm sure it runs great if you never do anything other than fire up a server and just sit back and watch the numbers roll by.

It runs great if you know how to use it properly, because then you can fix problems that you may encounter. It does have a steep learning curve, though, and this is a problem for beginners :(

Old Post 08-07-01 17:43 #
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deadnail
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Why then is it wrong to use Linux, another Unix system, for the desktop as well?
I never said it was wrong, have fun ya cultist.


True but (a) how it happened isnt the point, the point is that I could fix it because I have the proper control over my system I need to fix it and (b) this is just one example of how Linux gives me proper control over my system.
...when it fucks it up. =)


It's hard to answer this one because none of this ever happens to me :). But i'll try to be helpful nonetheless. Were you running GNOME? Because I tried GNOME 1.4 a few months ago and I admit a lot of it is very very slow buggy crap.
I was running KDE 2.1 or something. It was so fucking slow I wanted to get out and push.


It runs great if you know how to use it properly, because then you can fix problems that you may encounter. It does have a steep learning curve, though, and this is a problem for beginners :(
There must be some secret button combination or ritual I have to go through to keep it from crashing... that must be the learning curve.

I never thought any other OS would make Win98SE look stable but here we are.

Old Post 08-07-01 17:54 #
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fraggle
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Damnit, at least give me a chance to reply before you start your next linux-flaming post :P

Ok, theres far too much for me to reply to everything or I'll probably run out of disk space on telefragged or something, but I'll certainly refute some of what you've said.


Windows isn't that expensive, given the fact that I can run SOFTWARE with it and how much shit comes integrated with it. Konqueror sucks but it was the best browser in Linux I saw, and sadly none of the browsers for Linux have really hit the Netscape 4 scale.

I'm using Mozilla which is derived from the Netscape code so by definition must be at that "scale". However, you have a point, I'd still kill for Internet Explorer on Linux.


KDE is slow, but Goddammit Gnome isn't even there... it's like watching snail's fuck.

GNOME is shit.


The thing that bugs me about Linux is how fucking open sourced it is. Its like the penguin crowd won't even touch something unless it's open sourced.

You'll only get free (open source mainly) stuff on a Linux CD anyway, because they legally cant sell proprietory stuff. In any case they are following the Open Source philosophy of trying to create a totally free operating system. You're entitled to your opinion on that of course.


Oh yeah, and the boot loader decided to start spitting out 'LI' and hanging up. Let me see you get around that one without a bootable CD since it would force that on you before it even tried looking for a diskette.

This may sound strange, but if i remember correctly LILO displays the four letters as it progresses through the different stages of loading - that way if there is a problem you can tell where it is failing. It is a very obscure thing to do though, and it certainly isnt obvious. LILO isnt a very good bootloader, I have to say.

Seriously, I'm amazed at the nightmare you seem to have had with Mandrake, and I've never heard of anyone having this many problems with a Linux install. I can only guess that you either had some obscure hardware that was causing problems or that it was problems with Mandrake itself.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:02 #
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Arioch
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I've never had that high of an opinion of Mandrake anyway.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:11 #
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deadnail
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Obscure hardware?

3DFX Voodoo 3 video card.
Intel motherboard.
Pentium 3.
Crucial ram.
Sound Blaster.
Creative CD-RW (don't get one, BTW, but they're not obscure).

What the fuck is obscure about this?

Oh, and naturally, my system came with the one type of Conextant 56k that linmodems.org said will never be able to work under Linux. Whoopie.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:12 #
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fraggle
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True but (a) how it happened isnt the point, the point is that I could fix it because I have the proper control over my system I need to fix it and (b) this is just one example of how Linux gives me proper control over my system.
...when it fucks it up. =)[/quote]
In this case it wasnt even linux that did it - the NetBSD installer wiped my partition table and i used Linux to rebuild it. I can certainly do a lot more with a Linux rescue disk than I can with the joke that is the Windows 2000 Recovery Console.



It's hard to answer this one because none of this ever happens to me :). But i'll try to be helpful nonetheless. Were you running GNOME? Because I tried GNOME 1.4 a few months ago and I admit a lot of it is very very slow buggy crap.
I was running KDE 2.1 or something. It was so fucking slow I wanted to get out and push.

I installed a new hard drive the other day and decided to move my swap partition (the equivalent of the windows swap file) to the new faster drive. I found that suddenly my system was running at a crawl, on the point of lock up, until I realised that I hadnt initialised the new swap partition. It occurred to me just now that you might have experienced similar speed problems if you forgot to create a swap partition during the install, do you remember doing so?

Old Post 08-07-01 18:14 #
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deadnail
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Four partitions for Linux, each one given the default amount of space EXCEPT for the /swap partition which got 640 megs 'cuz I have 256 megs of ram.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:21 #
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fraggle
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Okay, I have no idea why it acted in the way it did, my only conclusion has to be that Mandrake = shit. If you install Linux again (although it certainly doesnt look like you will), try one of the other distributions such as Redhat. I run Debian myself although I wouldnt recommend you try it because it assumes you have knowledge of how to use it and you'd probably end up totally lost :)

Old Post 08-07-01 18:30 #
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deadnail
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You're Goddamn right I won't try Linux again. Even with the latest release of RedHat I would still have to manually configure my soundcard from the command line.

Why would I try Linux again anyway? I thought it would be a nice and reliable OS for doing things that I don't want to risk getting fucked up... like writing books and being a server for when I hook up multiple computers around here.

It doesn't seem well suited to either task, it just seems suited to being as slow as a frozen and retarded turtle and as reliable as a neurotic monkey on heroin.

You want to hear something scary? I'm looking forward to WinXP. In fact, I'm thinking about assembling a dual Athlon-MP machine just for it.

Of all the bad things you can say about XP will it completely b0rk one of my harddrives randomly?

Most of it isn't even in the EXT2 format, most of it is just listed as bad now. Not even Partition Magic will fucking touch it. If Norton Disk Doctor doesn't touch it I should file charges against Mandrake© Linux for the People™ for raping my Maxtor drive.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:39 #
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fraggle
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One last thing, did you try their tech support? Some of the commercial distributions come with free tech support if you buy the boxed versions. Just a thought.

Old Post 08-07-01 18:54 #
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kain
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on the first day linux was on my teachers comp she says. omg, where is the mouse, the i say to her, stupid bitch, linux no have no mouse, mouse no need linux. then she say to me, linux? motha fuck, what is this linux, i got to linux hq and shoot them in the head with my gun, it shoot bb's at very very fast speed! i then say, me knowing this shitz, u stupid bitch get away, then i making typing very fast and she say holy shit and i say. watch this , i can tiptoe while you take a piss, spy on you while your little boy shits. then she say mothafuck nigga. the she get cheese grater and she flatten her chest. i say holy shit, then i say i fuck you in the eye. she says dont. i say you not tell me no, i say fuck you in the eye, so i shoot a load in the eye and i kill her. then i woke up from the dream and took a piss and ate some capn crunch. i go to take shit, then doom guy come out of toilet. i say holy shit motha fuck. i pee in his wounds to make him felling betta. then i flush the toilet and go to school.

Old Post 08-07-01 19:16 #
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Doom-Child
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Red Hat and Mandrake were created by pig-smoking troglodytes with no sense of usability. The closest I've come to friendly with Linux is Suse. The installer worked flawlessly on my machine, but my biggest problem with Linux has never been how it runs, I don't expect it to run that well yet. My problem is the fact that the PROGRAMMERS wrote all the help. Those man pages read like a copy of The Brothers Karamazov in Hebrew.

The worst part is that I AM a programmer. If *I* had trouble reading this shit, then what do they expect the average idiot to do with it? I couldn't even get freaking emacs to save a file!

After I got my new video card, I forgot to get Linux drivers. Since I don't do much with Linux at all yet, I figured I'd hold off until I could be sure I wouldn't be shooting myself in the groin by installing them. This meant, of course, that I had to use the command prompt for EVERYTHING. Sweet mother of Ghandi...I'd rather take out my own WISDOM TEETH than do that again.

In the end, I called the resident zealot, and he told me some totally obscure key combination to bring up a promptless console where I could type a series of letters that in NO way even LOOKED like the word "save", and it mercifully let me out.

Of course, the next instruction I learned was "shutdown -r now".

DC

Old Post 08-07-01 20:47 #
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læmænt
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I installed a new hard drive the other day and decided to move my swap partition (the equivalent of the windows swap file) to the new faster drive. I found that suddenly my system was running at a crawl, on the point of lock up, until I realised that I hadnt initialised the new swap partition. It occurred to me just now that you might have experienced similar speed problems if you forgot to create a swap partition during the install, do you remember doing so?


Oh... Same here then; I just didn't create any partitions in fear of killing win2k (all linux on one partition).
Bah. I need a separate hard drive :)

Old Post 08-07-01 20:51 #
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Arioch
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Of course, the next instruction I learned was "shutdown -r now".
shutdown -h now

Old Post 08-07-01 22:24 #
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Zaldron
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Wait for deadnail's response. Then for fraggle's one...heheh
OMG, way to call the shots! Jesus.


Didn't I told you? I know several things...

Old Post 08-08-01 00:51 #
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Doom-Child
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What's the -h option do?

DC

Old Post 08-08-01 15:44 #
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Arioch
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What's the -h option do?



DC


"halt" ... -r reboots, -h shuts it down

Old Post 08-08-01 16:24 #
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Doom-Child
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Gotcha.

Old Post 08-08-01 16:28 #
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