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Zlpempleh
Warming Up


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Registered: 12-02


I got the Doom Collectors edition and I don't think there is a yellow key,making the level impossible,right?I'm trying to install the patch in so I can get it,and I don't know what I have to do.Is it possible with DCE to install it?And if it is,how?Any help is GREATLY Appreciated.

Old Post 01-17-04 17:34 #
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Mancubus II
Purple is not a breakfast color


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http://www.teamtnt.com/other/tnt31fix.zip

This has been answered before. Please search the forums before creating a new thread, thanks.

Old Post 01-17-04 17:54 #
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Zlpempleh
Warming Up


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I already have the patch.I need to know if I can,and if yes how,to install it.

I'm sorry,I'm just lazy to go searching.

Old Post 01-17-04 18:23 #
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dr_st
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Patch, schmatch... Load up the IWAD in any level editor, open up MAP31 and uncheck the multiplayer tag on the yellow key, then save the IWAD.

Old Post 01-17-04 20:32 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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Doesn't make sense to change the iwad. Add the patch to the command line just like you would any additional pwad; e.g.:

doom2 -file tnt.wad tnt31.wad
prboom -iwad tnt.wad -file tnt31.wad
eternity -iwad doom2.wad -file tnt.wad tnt31.wad

...or whatever.

Oh, and the level isn't impossible as it stands. See the compet-n UV Speed demos.

Old Post 01-17-04 20:42 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
(former) /newstuff Chronicler


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It does in this case IMO, as it's such a tiny change.

Old Post 01-17-04 21:31 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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It doesn't really gain anything that you don't get from using the patch, so I'd much rather not change the iwad. Do all demos still play back OK after the change? (Answer: no, they don't. In fact, doing it this way doesn't help at all.)

Old Post 01-17-04 21:39 #
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Well, given it's the smallest change possible (with no nodebuilding, balance changes etc. to knock 'em out of sync) I don't see why the demos would screw up, as long as the yellow key isn't moved in the patch.

Old Post 01-17-04 23:30 #
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dr_st
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Even if some old TNT MAP31 demos would screw up, I couldn't care less.

To me it doesn't make sense to have a stupid -FILE there all the time and see "adding tnt31.wad" every time during startup.

Old Post 01-18-04 07:21 #
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Naked Snake
HAHA I AM A FAG AND I CAN'T CHANGE THIS TITLE ANYMORE


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Just use wintex to merge that wad with the IWAD. Simple.

Old Post 01-18-04 08:29 #
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Graf Zahl
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Grazza said:
It doesn't really gain anything that you don't get from using the patch, so I'd much rather not change the iwad. Do all demos still play back OK after the change?




The only demos that can desync are those where the player moves over the spot with the yellow key. Considering that this is a genuine map bug (which affects playability) and not an update I couldn't care less. For other maps this doesn't have an effect at all and since there will never be an official update which requires an untouched WAD (which will always be available on the CD I see no point in not fixing the IWAD itself.

Old Post 01-18-04 11:26 #
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Xaser
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Heh. When I got to that part, I was completely confused, so I went to the editor and looked to see what's going on. When I found out, I just loaded my already-in-progress game and gave myself the yellow key. I still can't believe that a commercially released DOOM wad would have such a bug. Just another syndrome of "Not Enough Testing", I guess.

Old Post 01-18-04 22:29 #
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Ty Halderman
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Xaser said:
I still can't believe that a commercially released DOOM wad would have such a bug. Just another syndrome of "Not Enough Testing", I guess.

No sour grapes here (much) but id had a fixed version of that map at least a month before they packaged it up, and still not only didn't include it but never provided a fix. In fact, you could go to their "help" folks and not even find out that TeamTNT had a fix for it, probably because they preferred to keep the true authorship of Final Doom a secret.

I mean, if it had been a cosmetic bug, that would have been one thing, but it was a showstopper for pete's sake.

BTW the patch does also fix a node build problem in 31, so if you're using an engine that doesn't build its own nodes, it's better to use that (or merge it in) rather than just tweaking the yellow key multiplayer flag.

Old Post 01-18-04 23:06 #
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Xaser
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Ty Halderman said:

No sour grapes here (much) but id had a fixed version of that map at least a month before they packaged it up, and still not only didn't include it but never provided a fix. In fact, you could go to their "help" folks and not even find out that TeamTNT had a fix for it, probably because they preferred to keep the true authorship of Final Doom a secret.



Geez. Did you guys even make any money off of it? That's pretty wrong, trying to hide the true authors of Final Doom.

Old Post 01-18-04 23:29 #
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Ty Halderman
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Xaser said:
Geez. Did you guys even make any money off of it?

Sure, easily a dime an hour, no royalties of course. And they're still selling it...

Bah, it's no biggie, really, it's just a lesson we think we learned. Besides, the work we've done since that release in 1996 (eek!) for free has been more gratifying.

Old Post 01-19-04 04:06 #
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Quasar
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For whatever it is worth, I like Evilution quite a bit ^_^ And at least the community has known the truth about it for quite a while. I knew Team TNT did part of Final DOOM before I even owned it heheh.

Old Post 01-19-04 05:08 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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The Icarus text-file made it clear who made Evilution. That came out before Evilution, so wasn't it common knowledge at the time? I bought Final Doom as soon as it was released, mainly on the strength of it being by the same team that made Icarus.

Old Post 01-19-04 05:15 #
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Ty Halderman
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The Internet-based DOOM community probably knew, but let's face it, most sales of Final DOOM were in stores, probably mostly to people without Internet connectivity. It was a different world in '95-'96. Likely most people just figures id made them, just like they made DOOM and DOOM2.

Anyway, it's just the way it worked out. I'm fine with having done as much as we did over the years, money or not.

Old Post 01-19-04 05:25 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


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The end screen says who made Evilution too, so presumably a lot of people saw that. Maybe you don't see that if you use Doom95 though (don't want to test it in case it crashes my computer, like it did last time I used Doom95).

I detected a slight tinge of bitterness in Dario Casali's text-file for his demoset:
code:
Demos Replaced : Yes - there are some even though WIN95 doesn't show them. Load up Plutonia.wad with Doom2 version 1.9 and you see the cool demos. You also see the endoom screen, which happens to be the game's only reference to the two people who created the entire episode. ... A Final word of thanks goes to : ID for taking our names out of the credit screen (but they did publish it so what the heck)


One thing I always wondered about Evilution was who made each map. I never recall finding this information anywhere.

Old Post 01-19-04 05:43 #
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dr_st
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Grazza said:
The Icarus text-file made it clear who made Evilution. That came out before Evilution, so wasn't it common knowledge at the time? I bought Final Doom as soon as it was released, mainly on the strength of it being by the same team that made Icarus.


I think it went the other way around for me. A friend got me a copy of Final DOOM. When I played it, I noticed on the ENDOOM screen that it was made by TeamTNT. Now I don't remember where I got the URL for their site, but I went there and found out about the other cool stuff they had made (Icarus, Eternal). Then came BOOM, which was soon dropped, to my dismay.

Old Post 01-19-04 06:52 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Grazza said:
One thing I always wondered about Evilution was who made each map. I never recall finding this information anywhere.


Ditto. It would be great to know (for looking up other WADs by the same people who made your most favourite levels of TNT). Obviously, map 28, "Heck", and map 32 "Caribbean" are Casali maps. And Myk suggested that Tom "Paradox" Mustaine did at least one map, though not specifying which. It's an old discussion thread found here. Scroll down a bit.

Old Post 01-19-04 10:10 #
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Ty Halderman
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The ENDOOM screen does not show up using DOOM95, and since that's the engine that got installed off the CD unless you navigated to the directories and installed something else by hand, I doubt most people did see it.

Actually that was a bone of contention anyway, was that certainly that screen could have been displayed somehow on the way out. However, it wasn't done.

As for who did what, here's the text of a note I sent someone back in 2000, so I guess it's accurate :)



Well, it's not that simple. We did much of it as a cooperative effort, with Punch Team folks finishing up and several instances where someone would work with or take over for another author part way through. The chart below shows 75%/20%/5% splits depending on what tasks were done by whom.

All of Plutonia was done by the Casali brothers, Milo and Dario. For TNT:Evilution, this is about all I have, and it's not been released publicly before. Of course this is just the levels--there was a lot of other stuff done that virtually equaled the effort in doing levels. In fact we only divvied up 1/2 of the purchase price as being for level work.

code:
/////////// Brian Kidby 1 level 95% (LMILT1BK) MAP13 Jim Dethlefsen 1 level 95% (LMILT1JD) MAP05 John Wakelin 1 level 100% (LMILT1JW) MAP02 Jimmy Sieben 1 level 95% (LHELL2EG) MAP30 1 level 100% (LHELL1EG) MAP29 1 level 75% (LTECH1EG) MAP06 1 level 95% (LMILT1EG) MAP09 Dean Johnson 1 level 100% (LMILT1DJ) MAP11 1 level 100% (LCAVE1DJ) MAP24 William D. Whitaker 1 level 100% (LMILT1WW) MAP15 Drake O'Brien 1 level 100% (LTECH1DO) MAP20 1 level 100% (LTECH2DO) MAP21 1 level 100% (LMILT1DO) MAP27 Andrew Dowswell 1 level 100% (LMILT1AD) MAP07 Ty Halderman 1 level 100% (LMILT1TY) MAP04 1 level 80% (LMILT1ET) MAP19 1 level 5% (LMILT1EG) (MAP09) 1 level 25% (LTECH1EG) (MAP06) 1 level 5% (LMILT1BT) (MAP13) 1 level 25% (LTECH3DC) (MAP18) Andre Arsenault 1 level 100% (LCAVE1AA) MAP16 Jim Mentzer 1 level 100% (LCAVE1DH) MAP25 Paul Turnbull 1 level 100% (LCAVE1PT) MAP23 Mark Snell 1 level 75% (LCAVE1KL) MAP26 Jim Lowell 1 level 100% (LMILT1JL) MAP12 1 level 5% (LCAVE1KL) (MAP26) Tom Mustaine 1 level 100% (LTECH1TM) MAP01 1 level 100% (LTECH7TM) MAP10 1 level 100% (LTECH8TM) MAP17 John Minadeo 1 level 95% (LMILT1JM) MAP08 1 level 20% (LMILT1RP) MAP03 Christopher Buteau 1 level 100% (LCAVE1CB) MAP22 Dario Casali (DC=Dario, MC=Milo) 1 level 75% (LTECH3DC) MAP18 1 level 100% (LHELL0MC) MAP28 1 level 100% (LSECR2DC) MAP31 1 level 100% (LOTHR5DC) MAP32 Robin Patenall 1 level 100% (LMILT1RP) MAP14 1 level 80% (LTECH1RP) MAP03 \\\\\\\\\\\\\

Oh, and there were some levels done that weren't accepted by id for publishing in Final DOOM and were either replaced or redone as a result.

Old Post 01-19-04 10:28 #
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Kristian Ronge
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Ty,

THANK YOU for that piece of info! Thank you, thank you, thank you. :-D

Old Post 01-19-04 12:47 #
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Never_Again
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Ty Halderman said:

BTW the patch does also fix a node build problem in 31, so if you're using an engine that doesn't build its own nodes, it's better to use that (or merge it in) rather than just tweaking the yellow key multiplayer flag.



Right. There is that Sarge-stuck-in-the-wall bug that prevents you from getting 100% kills even with the Yellow Key's difficulty level bit corrected. So the TeamTNT patch is definitely the way to go.

Old Post 01-22-04 19:10 #
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Erik
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Great list there Ty, you should put that somewhere on www.teamtnt.com

Old Post 01-22-04 20:25 #
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dr_st
Sorcerer on vacation


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Never_Again said:


Right. There is that Sarge-stuck-in-the-wall bug that prevents you from getting 100% kills even with the Yellow Key's difficulty level bit corrected. So the TeamTNT patch is definitely the way to go.



OK, but merge it in the IWAD. That's what I did.

Old Post 01-22-04 20:37 #
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myk
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Depends what you're doing; merging it in is really bad for watching demos, as all the best demos use the buggy map for speed runs and such, and the patch for max-type runs.

__________________
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Old Post 01-23-04 06:29 #
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dr_st
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myk said:
Depends what you're doing; merging it in is really bad for watching demos, as all the best demos use the buggy map for speed runs and such, and the patch for max-type runs.


Watching demos is normally a very small part of DOOMing (or at least should be), and watching demos on TNT MAP31 is such a small part of watching demos, and watching old demos on TNT MAP31 is such a small part of watching demos on TNT MAP31, and watching old demos on TNT MAP31 that go out of sync because of the patch is probably not a very big part of watching old demos on TNT MAP31.

"Really bad" for watching demos, lol.

There were some really cool demos for DOOM2 v1.7 and even for DOOM v1.2, but I'm not gonna keep all those version for compatibility with DEMOS, sheesh!

If the community values it so much, let someone re-record the few demos that go out-of-sync on the new map.

Old Post 01-24-04 07:12 #
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myk
volveré y seré millones


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Hello there?

Mr. dr_st, my dear, who cares what you do or do not do? That post there indicates people should be aware of how the patch has been used recording competition demos, for their convenience.

You can quit your defensive posturing; no one gives a shit if you put Pamela Anderson textures in your copy of tnt.wad, even. Or keep it up. Like I said...

Hey kids demo watching should be a small part of DOOMing. Wow, I bet that if we don't keep the quota down it could harm us somehow; maybe it's like watching too much porn.

Go ahead and amuse me some more. Please.

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Old Post 01-24-04 09:28 #
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Erik
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This thread is obviously not going anywhere good and the question has been fully answered.

Thread closed.

Old Post 01-24-04 13:17 #
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