---

Coldfusio said:
Barons and knights in a small area if you don't have the plasmagun.

---

---

stphrz said:
All the monsters in Doom have their uses and can make for fun fighting scenarios. Most of the reasons people hate certain monsters is likely due to their misuse in maps rather than the properties they have.

For example, Cyberdemons. Perhaps he most misused monster ever. Cyberdemons should only be faced one at a time and only in the right circumstances.

If you are going to use a Cybie you need two basic things first and foremost.

1. Enough space.

2. Cover for the player to avoid both the rockets and splash damage.

Sufficient weapons/ammo isn't necessary at the time of the encounter provided you give the player enough space and cover so he has the time to think and look around the weapons needed to fight. Setting up a situation where the player has to deal with being stalked rather than being blown to smithereens in seconds is much more fun all around.

Cyberdemons make excellent guards as well. You could for example place one guarding a powerful weapon or key in a tight area the player can retreat from if he doesn't have the weaponry to fight it at the time. Later on the player can come back, kill it and retrieve the item. This is a good way to put an item out of reach without having to resort to making the player find a hidden door or switch.

Really, anytime you set up a scenario where the player can actually think his way out of jam rather than blast his way out or require superhuman dodging ablilty you increase the funfactor of a map.

---

---

hardcore_gamer said:
I bet that very few people enjoy all of the enemy's from Doom and Doom2.

---

---

And what monster kills you the most often.

---

---

The Lag said:
but those fucking pain elementals are as bad as the cliffracers in morrowind.

---

---

hardcore_gamer said:
The rocket launcher+lost souls= A toasted player

Unless there is enough room like an outside area.

---

---

POTGIESSER said:
Unless a cyberdemon is guarding an area in such a way that eliminating it is essential to get the key/switch/move to that area you can just run past them rendering them almost pointless.

---

---

Non-Fanatic_Doom_Fan said:
But with all of the people complaining about how hard Revs are,

---

---

myk said:
Yeah, a number of comments seem to reduce themselves to hating monsters due to flaws of the player, rather than actual flaws of those monsters.

---

---

leileilol said:
anything doom2 adds, because they have too much hit points, and look and sound inane.

---

---

stphrz said:

I did it in my map for NDCP. It consists of a small door and a gated enclosure off a building. Inside the enclosure is a yellow key and a Cyberdemon.

During playtesting I tried many many times to simply run through the door past the Cyberdemon and grab the key and get back out. Couldn't do it. Someone of greater skill than me might be able to do it but even then they would likely still die the vast majority of the time. To make it a little easier for myself (and the thinking observant player) I put an invulnerablity sphere secret nearby :)

---

---

myk said:
The good thing about DOOM and DOOM II is that each monster serves a function and they each have their own characteristics.

---

---

Coldfusio said:

Have to agree with potgiesser:
Retried it and manage to do that in my first 3 runs. The hard thing of that map is a: open en b:not knowing it. a+b killed me the most. Like the building with the revenants, I realized about their presence after getting hit. The best trap I found is that where you get the blue card, it's so simple and it worked.

---

---

Jodwin said:
On an other note, I love arachnotrons. Because of their dying sound. Always gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling. [/B]

---