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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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Posts: 657
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Both shots need more contrast, but seeing as neither shot is of a finished area, then meh to what I say.

The layout and design looks great.
Old Post 02-20-12 13:45 #
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kristus
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40oz said:
http://jbserver.com/forums/attachme...42_DOOM0018.jpg

Looks like you hosed it all down with raw oil. Even the HUD sprite match this, only adding to the effect. But I am interested to see where you take it.
Old Post 02-20-12 16:00 #
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rf`
Dr. Nosign


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kristus said:

Looks like you hosed it all down with raw oil. Even the HUD sprite match this, only adding to the effect. But I am interested to see where you take it.

(Spoiler: The final boss is BP)
Old Post 02-20-12 21:11 #
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printz
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Here are some automap shots of Doom.wad with a modified Eternity executable (AutoDoom) that allows you to see the node partition lines (if you type am_drawnodelines at the console) and, in consequence, the subsectors. Ignore all lines that go off the map as well as those that don't close into convex shapes (subsectors). I haven't found an algorithm to get rid of them. Because of this, they look like hand-traced by a human with a ruler.

Note that Eternity already has that console command, but it only displays a short segment of each line -- not informative enough.

http://i.imgur.com/yHChpl.png
http://i.imgur.com/1uV2Us.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/sJRXis.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/0p4sKs.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/FFpvos.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/6C4Pls.png

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Last edited by printz on 02-20-12 at 21:36
Old Post 02-20-12 21:18 #
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_bruce_
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printz said:
Here are some automap shots of Doom.wad with a modified Eternity executable (AutoDoom) that allows you to see the node partition lines (if you type am_drawnodelines at the console) and, in consequence, the subsectors. Ignore all lines that go off the map as well as those that don't close into convex shapes (subsectors). I haven't found an algorithm to get rid of them. Because of this, they look like hand-traced by a human with a ruler.

Note that Eternity already has that console command, but it only displays a short segment of each line -- not informative enough.

...


Awesome!
Old Post 02-20-12 22:09 #
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Grazza
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printz said:
Ignore all lines that go off the map as well as those that don't close into convex shapes (subsectors). I haven't found an algorithm to get rid of them. Because of this, they look like hand-traced by a human with a ruler.
These lines may not be just an artefact, but actually represent height differences in the void that can block player movement when he is out in the void. If so, it might actually prove very useful, and worth extending those lines rather than cutting them off. As it stands, movement in the void is largely a matter of trial and error. link for those who are wondering what the hell I'm referring to and another one
Old Post 02-20-12 22:18 #
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printz
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Thanks :)

The root node's separator is extended to the maximum of its two children bounding boxes (no other reference available). The other nodes' separators are extended until they hit other lines drawn so far, or to their bounding boxes if they are parallel.

I haven't studied how Doom itself treats binary space separators. I was only interested in seeing subsectors. And speaking of them, they're very varied in size, like the states of America.

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Last edited by printz on 02-20-12 at 22:51
Old Post 02-20-12 22:39 #
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Avoozl
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40oz said:
http://jbserver.com/forums/attachments/8342_DOOM0018.jpg
Are you going to continue using the UAC Ultra textures for this?
Old Post 02-21-12 08:28 #
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Katamori
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Try to make Plutonia-like stuff with a bit of new details. I call it "Shadow Genesis", as a homage to Plutonia MAP14.

Work in progress shots. (no light differences, no monsters)

http://i.imgur.com/8frUDm.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/QHR82m.png

Last edited by Katamori on 02-21-12 at 22:15
Old Post 02-21-12 16:40 #
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Snakes
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I think raising the gray stone sector 16 units would really make it blend into the environment a little more seamlessly - as is, it looks a bit awkward IMO.

Otherwise I like it.
Old Post 02-21-12 16:46 #
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printz
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Grazza was correct, the void structure is indeed determined by the location and hierarchy of the BSP lines. It's easy to observe by noclipping through E1M9.

http://i.imgur.com/ERyZGl.png

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Old Post 02-21-12 21:18 #
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Grazza
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Can an AutoDoom executable be downloaded from anywhere?
Old Post 02-21-12 22:47 #
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printz
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I may upload a build on the sourceforge site, I hope it will work (or just to a file-sharing site). Just be warned that it'll still be called Eternity.exe, so put it elsewhere. The bot behavior (main reason it's called "auto") is disabled for now, all it did was overtake player's control and move forward and acquire targets if they appeared in the FOV. The project is based on the very latest SVN build of Eternity.

It's just too bad this automap modification can't be made without editing the code. Alternatively I could make an SVG generator out of maps, which shows all wanted data on a Wiki-compatible file, but it would mean extra work for me.

Last edited by printz on 02-21-12 at 23:09
Old Post 02-21-12 23:00 #
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Avoozl
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Although it's nothing special compaired to a majority of the shots on here, here's a very early shot of a new map I only just started to work on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/EliteJason/Screenshot_Doom_20120222_161839.png
Old Post 02-22-12 05:36 #
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Kaiser
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I am surprised no one found this out yet but Doom64EX can also display nodes and subsectors in automap (am_nodes and am_ssect cvars)

Viewing nodes for Map01
http://i.imgur.com/jX9c2l.png

When am_nodes is set to 4, it'll display the current node that you're standing in
http://i.imgur.com/VWuFSl.png

Viewing Subsectors
http://i.imgur.com/3PmHFl.png
Old Post 02-22-12 06:40 #
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printz
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Nice and quite useful, and more refined. Does it work for PC Doom wads too?

In any case, I'm including the link to the build requested by Grazza in my signature. Apart from a modified am_drawnodelines, it doesn't contain anything more than Eternity r1921, and may be buggy (grade 3a: visual defects, no stability harm).

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Old Post 02-22-12 08:46 #
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RjY
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http://i41.tinypic.com/23u3i1t.png

Happy birthday Mordeth E1, 15 years old today ☺
Old Post 02-22-12 19:07 #
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_bruce_
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Damn, didn't know about that cool feature in your port Kaiser!
Old Post 02-22-12 20:21 #
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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.


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Speaking of automaps

http://jbserver.com/forums/attachments/8342_editorshot.png

As I intend to make maps that are a little more complex, a feature I'm also working on in my maps is making use of the "Hidden" linedef flag to erase map details (with the exception of stairs) and sectors in the map that the player doesn't necessarily get to interact with to make navigating with the automap more useful and akin to classic Doom. My horrid messy doombuilder shot on the left, compared to my much more cleaned up automap view on the right.
Old Post 02-23-12 10:02 #
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printz
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That's brilliant, but also sounds laborious.
Old Post 02-23-12 10:09 #
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Kaiser
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40oz said:
Speaking of automaps

As I intend to make maps that are a little more complex, a feature I'm also working on in my maps is making use of the "Hidden" linedef flag to erase map details (with the exception of stairs) and sectors in the map that the player doesn't necessarily get to interact with to make navigating with the automap more useful and akin to classic Doom. My horrid messy doombuilder shot on the left, compared to my much more cleaned up automap view on the right.


You could also use the 'secret' flag to make some of those two-sided walls look solid. Doom64 does this a lot and they were very anal about masking lines as hidden/secret in the automap. I agree with that all the way, it helps makes the automap more readable for larger/complex maps and I do that a lot for my own maps.
Old Post 02-23-12 16:19 #
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Memfis
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Wow guys, you really put your souls in your maps. :) I'm usually too lazy to bother with stuff that I don't care about (automap, skill/coop settings, balancing continuous play, etc).
Anyway...

http://i.imgur.com/QIeR5.jpg
Old Post 02-23-12 16:35 #
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Marcaek
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@40oz: More people need to do that, using the automap in Plutonia 2 for example was agonizing.
Old Post 02-23-12 16:37 #
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Vordakk
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Memfis said:
http://i.imgur.com/QIeR5.jpg


Good one!
Old Post 02-23-12 18:29 #
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Katamori
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@Memfis: Good enough.
Old Post 02-23-12 18:29 #
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ptoing
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40oz said:
As I intend to make maps that are a little more complex, a feature I'm also working on in my maps is making use of the "Hidden" linedef flag to erase map details (with the exception of stairs) and sectors in the map that the player doesn't necessarily get to interact with to make navigating with the automap more useful and akin to classic Doom.


I do this as well and think everyone should. I even go as far as flagging 2s lines which are at the outer boundary of where the player can go "secret" which makes them appear onesided.

In general I kill all ceiling only detail stuff, all floor detail which has no influence on gameplay, as well as little nooks and crannies and generally everything where the player can not get to.
Old Post 02-23-12 18:52 #
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40oz
And who knows, maybe I'm wrong. But that's extremely unlikely because I'm always right.


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Yeah I started off making EVERYTHING hidden, and then carefully selected all the impassible walls and stairs and unchecked the hidden flag. It was a little tedious at first, but I think over the course of mapping I'll get used to it and do it pretty quickly and regularly.
Old Post 02-23-12 19:12 #
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Cell
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Marcaek said:
@40oz: More people need to do that, using the automap in Plutonia 2 for example was agonizing.

Plutonia 2 is a cheap example for this. Sunder or Deus Vult crashes as soon as I press tab on my keyboard.
Old Post 02-23-12 19:31 #
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Marcaek
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I never really needed to use the automap in Sunder, it's a pretty straightforward mapset. PL2 has a lot of little puzzles and secrets, and you can get lost in some levels(map11 for instance).
Old Post 02-23-12 20:00 #
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Mechadon
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It would be neat if there was some way to partially automate hiding details and unnecessary lines for the automap. Maybe a DB plugin idea? I don't know how you make the process work though. I use to hide unnecessary lines way back when I started mapping but stopped because it got more tedious with the more complex my mapping got. There's no way I'm gonna go through and hide lines in a map like this...I mean, I'm lazy enough as it is :P. I agree it's a really good idea to clean them up for the automap though.
Old Post 02-23-12 21:01 #
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