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Netherstorm
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A screenshot of my upcoming project, Cybernetic 2:

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...206028507_n.png

Old Post 11-18-12 08:08 #
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Memfis
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Netherstorm said:
First of all, excellent job with your map, it looks very nice. Now with the midi, I suggest this: http://www.mediafire.com/?7lyp4bysrglhf9r. If you recognize it, it is from the KILLER.wad.

I think it's actually from Hexen. (3rd hub?)

Old Post 11-18-12 10:18 #
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Gez
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It's Octo (lump name OCTOR) from Hexen. It's used in Zedek's Tomb and Locus Requiescat.

Old Post 11-18-12 11:30 #
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mouldy
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BloodyAcid said:
Might I recommend a more suitable sky? The default just doesn't cut it.


Sure please do, I'll have to work out how to change it. Something that contrasts with the dark red of the interior perhaps.

I've been testing my map and while it looks pretty it doesn't run as smoothly as I'd hoped on my laptop, so I might have to strip out a bit of the detail.
http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/jpg/5872.847032b8a331def77529b6a0384db1fe_map2.jpg
I think the main problem is that the whole thing is arranged in a cirlce so when you look out a window you pretty much see the whole map. Have to experiment with optimising it a bit.

Old Post 11-18-12 13:42 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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Whoa! I love the circle stuff in the center. If you can at all save it, don't get rid of it. I'll test if you want.

Old Post 11-18-12 14:18 #
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mouldy
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General Rainbow Bacon said:
Whoa! I love the circle stuff in the center. If you can at all save it, don't get rid of it. I'll test if you want.


Cheers i might take you up on that. I've mostly tested in zdoom where its not too bad if a little juddery in places, but after trying it in prboom it seems a little shakey. I'll give you a shout once I've ironed out a couple of wrinkles

Old Post 11-18-12 15:45 #
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Katamori
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Oh my God mouldy, that map seems like an ultimate crazyness...those things might be a nightmare to align...

Old Post 11-18-12 15:59 #
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mouldy
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Yeah it has been a test of sanity, hopefully there will be enough things shooting at you to distract from any mistakes

Old Post 11-18-12 16:11 #
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GoatLord
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Please post some pictures of the map in-game. This looks fucking awesome.

EDIT: D'oh! I didn't see the previous page. Anyway, this map looks really great, reminds me a bit of Dues Volt. Not that it doesn't have its own personality.

Old Post 11-18-12 18:20 #
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mouldy
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Cheers, Deus Vult is definitely an influence here.

The main issue for me (other than the lag) is the uneven floor in places - this isn't noticable in zdoom but in prboom you really seem to feel every lump and bump - is this something that will annoy a lot of people?

Old Post 11-18-12 18:40 #
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Simon666
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Only time will tell Mouldy, personally i really like what i see!

Old Post 11-18-12 18:51 #
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Netherstorm
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Excellent job mouldy. The mapping must have been a nightmare from that picture, but it all makes up for making a kick ass map.

Old Post 11-18-12 18:51 #
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DaniJ
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mouldy said:
{DOOM map with insane amount of detail}

You crazy mappers... you've no idea how much strain you're putting the DOOM engine under. Seriously that is nuts. A modern port might just as well abandon DOOM's BSP completely if that's the sort of stuff its gonna have to render. Maps like that circumvent nearly every benefit to using the algorithm in the first place.

Old Post 11-18-12 19:51 #
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mouldy
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DaniJ said:

You crazy mappers... you've no idea how much strain you're putting the DOOM engine under. Seriously that is nuts. A modern port might just as well abandon DOOM's BSP completely if that's the sort of stuff its gonna have to render. Maps like that circumvent nearly every benefit to using the algorithm in the first place.



I read that in the voice of Scotty from Star trek ;)

But you have a point. This map was a bit of an experiment really, I'll probably tone it down a bit in future maps.

Old Post 11-18-12 20:11 #
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Jimi
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I think that kind of maps are ok as experiments or something to look as still images, but something that plays nice doesn't need that much detail.

Old Post 11-18-12 20:14 #
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DaniJ
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mouldy said:

I read that in the voice of Scotty from Star trek ;)


Heh, so you should - its much the same situation :)

Old Post 11-18-12 20:20 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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DaniJ said:

You crazy mappers... you've no idea how much strain you're putting the DOOM engine under. Seriously that is nuts. A modern port might just as well abandon DOOM's BSP completely if that's the sort of stuff its gonna have to render. Maps like that circumvent nearly every benefit to using the algorithm in the first place.


Adding on, if you're going to map like that, you might as well just port Doom's gameplay to a newer engine. You're only holding yourself back working with something so primitive.

Old Post 11-18-12 20:24 #
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GoatLord
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Buncha haters. Let's play the finished product before we judge, shall we?

Old Post 11-18-12 20:40 #
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mouldy
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Dragonsbrethren said:

Adding on, if you're going to map like that, you might as well just port Doom's gameplay to a newer engine. You're only holding yourself back working with something so primitive.



Its more of an artistic choice. Some artists like to use more primitive mediums even though easier and more advanced techniques exist. Sometimes it helps the creative process when you have limitations.

Old Post 11-18-12 21:37 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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I know all about limitations breeding creativity; I primarily map for vanilla, after all. The thing is, I think the only thing you're limiting by doing your designs in the Doom engine is your own creativity. You're not working with any hard limits like vanilla mappers do; the only thing that matters is what your PC can handle. I look at designs like that and I just see wasted potential. Maybe I'm just biased; I think hyper detailed stuff in Doom looks ugly. I map for vanilla because I find the simplistic, clean lines it breeds to be very elegant compared to the aesthetics of newer games.

Old Post 11-18-12 21:49 #
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Phml
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Every advanced engine I've seen seems more limiting than Doom, to me. The editors are complex, with plenty of boring technical stuff and eyecandy features before you get to the creative parts. The mapmaking itself is less intuitive, can't just pick it up, immediately draw lines and shapes and end up with something good. Performance often has to be taken into consideration, and compiling what you have into a playable version is often more complicated than simply clicking "save map".

This is before we even get into the higher standards for visual fidelity potentially leading to more art work unrelated to mapmaking, more prefabs constraining your creativity; or the lackluster gameplay most other FPS offer (which means you have to mod most games way beyond mapmaking to end up with something fun to play).

I don't think this is just me either, considering AAA studios staffed with multiple level designers working around the clock take more time to produce an equivalent amount of content as a prolific Doom mapper does in his spare time, and I don't think anyone could argue there is more creativity in the level design of American Soldier Fights Brown-Skinned Foreigners In Desert 4 : The Revenge Of The Comeback than in, say, Sunder, with a straight face.

Old Post 11-19-12 00:05 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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Mapping for a Quake engine game is no harder than Doom, and in fact is much easier when you wish to truly incorporate the third dimension. Don't confuse familiarity for a lack of difficulty; I had a hell of a time making the jump from Half-Life to Doom, and the latter is definitely the more complicated engine. The difference is, many things are significantly easier when you have free reign over how you want geometry placed and textured.

And before you say the Quake engine isn't modern, keep in mind that it's the basis for several of today's game engines, and the basics are still identical. If anything, it's gotten a little easier. Source, for example, has these wonderful meshes called displacements which you can use to sculpt terrain in seconds, versus the time it would take to do it with brushes (or, even worse, slopes in the Doom engine).

Edit: You know, if we want to keep discussing this, let's move it to another thread.

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on 11-19-12 at 01:13

Old Post 11-19-12 00:12 #
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Phml
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When I think of mapping for the Doom engine I'm thinking of limit-removing or Boom rather than more advanced ports. I agree many advanced mapping features are much harder to implement than the way it's done in newer engines that were built around 3D, no argument there. It's precisely why I've jumped around so much between either Boom and modern games myself, rather than use the middle ground that ZDoom mapping might seem to be intuitively.

As for familiarity... I've started mapping with DB2. Not exactly an old-timer here. ;)

Old Post 11-19-12 01:32 #
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mouldy
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Ribbiks - thats looking cool, I like the red highlights. Looks like a good place to do a lot of killing

Old Post 11-19-12 11:39 #
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franckFRAG
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mouldy said:


Cheers i might take you up on that. I've mostly tested in zdoom where its not too bad if a little juddery in places, but after trying it in prboom it seems a little shakey. I'll give you a shout once I've ironed out a couple of wrinkles



And on PrBoom plus? Mechadon for example, chosen PrBoom+ than prBoom for Vela Pax, maybe because about this problem, and not only for the music ogg format I think.

Last edited by franckFRAG on 11-19-12 at 17:54

Old Post 11-19-12 17:09 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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I decided to start a Megawad. This is the first level.

http://i48.tinypic.com/33zbtbr.jpg

Old Post 11-19-12 17:56 #
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mouldy
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franckFRAG said:


And on PrBoom plus? Mechadon for example, chosen PrBoom+ than prBoom for Vela Pax, maybe because about this problem, and not only for the music ogg format I think.



Ah sorry I meant plus, I dont think I even have the normal prboom. After testing it a bit more it doesn't seem so bad now, I think I'll just have to let people play it and see what they say.

Old Post 11-19-12 17:57 #
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Gez
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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
I decided to start a Megawad. This is the first level.

http://i48.tinypic.com/33zbtbr.jpg


I think the 3D floor ought to use the same floor texture as what surrounds it.

I also think it looks weird to have big saguaro cacti next to deciduous trees and shrubs.

Old Post 11-19-12 19:06 #
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Vorpal
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Stitching together a few Doom textures to try and get something that looks like a hedge... I wish I had artistic ability and could just draw my own ;-(

Does it look... hedgy?

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af294/v876_bucket/hmm.png

Old Post 11-19-12 21:09 #
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Mechadon
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Yea, I think that could pass for a hedge.

Old Post 11-19-12 22:12 #
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