Post your Doom picture! [post in Part 2 instead]

More stupid crap

Da Werecat said:

Looks like your display settings need some work too.

Relly now? Don't try and pretend those screenshots aren't overly bright and flat compared to many others. Heck, Memfis' screen right after your post is much more pleasing to the eye - it actually has different light levels on the giant cliffsides! And then all but the last one one of kaiser's pics suffer from that same flatness. And I thought people actually cared about lighting in doom-engine maps!

Obsidian said:

Not so much the lighting as the large use of SP_ROCK1: I'd recommend throwing in some extra rock textures for a bit of variety.

Nah, SP_ROCK1 rocks!

Random quiz! Who can tell me/us, which level is that from which WAD, and who's the author?

I'm so curious, who can recognize it.

I think I can see where Antroid is coming from although I'm not sure how you can add lighting differences to large open areas like these that rf` posted. Well, realistic shadows is one way but it takes forever to get them right...

Katamori: that's Baker's Dozen by Eternal of course. :) Don't remember the map's number but I think it's the last one? (so map13?)

Memfis said:

Katamori: that's Baker's Dozen by Eternal of course. :) Don't remember the map's number but I think it's the last one? (so map13?)

Exactly! =) yes, this is MAP13 of Baker's Dozen.

I should have thought that you'll definitely know it. =)

Memfis said:

I think I can see where Antroid is coming from although I'm not sure how you can add lighting differences to large open areas like these that rf` posted. Well, realistic shadows is one way but it takes forever to get them right...

It's really not that hard.
http://i50.tinypic.com/2crmskm.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/19mlwo.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/mhvcdh.jpg

Does anyone know if this project by TheMisterCat was ever finished/released?

Antroid: eh, not sure if I actually see any light differences tbh. I think I see something but it could be just the effects of fake contrast. It would help if you also posted screenshots without the shadows.

Really cool screens anyway, that eye thingy on the last one is intimidating.

Antroid said:

It's really not that hard.

Don't try and pretend your screenshots are any better aesthetically.

Memfis said:

Antroid: eh, not sure if I actually see any light differences tbh. I think I see something but it could be just the effects of fake contrast. It would help if you also posted screenshots without the shadows.

Sure. Here you go, should be obvious even to partially blind people like Da Werecat. Nothing altered between the shots is achieved with fake contrast, all of it was sector light levels (even the grey building in screen 2). That's how you make long stretches of cliffs, something Doom was never meant to have in the first place, look bearable to anyone but hardcore doomers.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2a136v.gif
http://i46.tinypic.com/6xuwcp.gif
http://i46.tinypic.com/vy5qxc.jpg

Antroid said:

Sure. Here you go, should be obvious even to partially blind people like Da Werecat.

Yep, these comparison GIFs definitely prove your point, nice work. :)

@Scalliano: That second one is bad ass!

Antroid said:

Sure. Here you go, should be obvious even to partially blind people like Da Werecat. Nothing altered between the shots is achieved with fake contrast, all of it was sector light levels (even the grey building in screen 2). That's how you make long stretches of cliffs, something Doom was never meant to have in the first place, look bearable to anyone but hardcore doomers.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2a136v.gif
http://i46.tinypic.com/6xuwcp.gif
http://i46.tinypic.com/vy5qxc.jpg

Out of curiosity, was this achieved by making small sectors by the edge of the cliffs to force contrast, or was it done by changing the light of the overall sector to something not-255? (I know from experience that sectors with 255 brightness produce very little contrast, but wanted to be absolutely sure it wasn't the case here.)

Antroid said:

That's how you make long stretches of cliffs, something Doom was never meant to have in the first place, look bearable to anyone but hardcore doomers.

While those vertical stripes are compensating your questionable texture choice to some extent, the mountains still look unnatural and flat. It's a Doom engine, not Serious Sam.

Here you go, should be obvious even to partially blind people like Da Werecat.

I'm sorry, I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

Memfis said:

Yep, these comparison GIFs definitely prove your point, nice work. :)

Thank you! :D I knew you'd see it.

Shadow Hog said:

Out of curiosity, was this achieved by making small sectors by the edge of the cliffs to force contrast, or was it done by changing the light of the overall sector to something not-255? (I know from experience that sectors with 255 brightness produce very little contrast, but wanted to be absolutely sure it wasn't the case here.)

None of the sectors are 255, but yes, I use small sectors that color the required linedefs brighter or darker as I please.

Da Werecat said:

While those vertical stripes are compensating your questionable texture choice to some extent, the mountains still look unnatural and flat. It's a Doom engine, not Serious Sam.

Right, now it's questionable texture choice. Sure, some variant of the "stone cubes piled on each other" texture would be much better for mountains, I can see it clearly.
Of course they will look unnatural, but at least that's miles better than the usual tall, wide and flat walls of some SP_ROCK variant that are so popular despite being probably the worst way to depict landscape in this engine.

Da Werecat said:

I'm sorry, I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

I'm afraid you don't quite qualify as someone who can do it.

Antroid said:

Sure, some variant of the "stone cubes piled on each other" texture would be much better for mountains, I can see it clearly.

Of course I meant just that. Yes.

Maybe you just shouldn't make big natural landscapes with stock textures if you're anal about all this stuff. It's your problem though.

I'm afraid you don't quite qualify as someone who can do it.

Ah, tough guy. I see.

Da Werecat said:

Maybe you just shouldn't make big natural landscapes with stock textures if you're anal about all this stuff. It's your problem though.

Thing is, I'm completely fine with my texture choices. Even the textures on those other screens were more or less fine. It's the flatness, the lack of any variation in a large evenly lit area that was the problem. That same problem remains independent of textures used and what the area depicted even is - the problem of big flat empty spaces. I posted how I solve that problem. If you are one of those people who have no standards for level design whatsoever, good for you, you'll be happy with anything. Doesn't mean nobody should ever improve.

Da Werecat said:

Ah, tough guy. I see.

Nope, I only pay attention to people whose opinions I have reasons to respect. Based on your immidiate jump to defending the obviously flawed screenshots, I don't place you among those people. Simple.

/me grabs some popcorn and watches the catfight

Antroid said:

I think the lighting could use some serious work. The outside shots are REALLY bright and look flat, especilly terrible on the ever-tiling huge rock walls on the second shot. Add some shadows man! Also, I always thought that such attempted landscapes in doom look really weird against any mountains on the background, because if the area is big enough the style and resolution difference between the faraway geometry and the sky texture looks really bad.

I'm afraid the others are right. I try to use a lot of shadows for underhangs and stuff like that. I could try to add shadows from the mountains themselves, but the map is already getting pretty complex and I'd have to do that for EVERY map. At this current point I'm more worried about getting the layouts done and working on gameplay. Minor things like shading I can fine-tune at a later point.

Also, because of heretic's base palette and colormap, shading will not be the same as in doom. The colors a little less saturated so yeah, big outdoor areas may look a little more dull. I may look into adding more rock textures but its not a big deal right now. I appreciate your input though.

The amount of posts in this thread inspired me to this map:







Initially it was meant to have 9001 cyberdemons, but then I noticed they didn't quite fit there. When the level starts there's 3953 enemies. When the enemies awaken, the enemy/kill count increases at a rate of 100 per second. Also the framerate was kinda poor. So, uhh, don't know what to do with it.

Antroid said:

Thing is, I'm completely fine with my texture choices.

Well, good for you.

It's the flatness, the lack of any variation in a large evenly lit area that was the problem. That same problem remains independent of textures used and what the area depicted even is - the problem of big flat empty spaces.

Not really. Textures can contain additional details and add variation on their own. It makes a difference even on relatively big surfaces, although sometimes that wouldn't be enough. I can agree that the second screenshot looks a little empty, but your method of shading every wall independently would not necessarily make it better. Darker and brighter stripes would clearly outline every vertical surface, making everything look even more artificial and blocky.

Based on your immidiate jump to defending the obviously flawed screenshots, I don't place you among those people.

Your screenshots are 'obviously flawed' too. Does that mean you're lacking self-respect?

Gimme some of that popcorn, Nomad. :P

Jimi: Definitely going to be putting on Buddha mode to play that one. Yikes.
scalliano: Really, really nice!

schwerpunk said:

Gimme some of that popcorn, Nomad. :P

Jimi said:

The amount of posts in this thread inspired me to this map:

[first image]

What are all these strange pixels all over the place? Oh wait, they're monsters.

[second image]

Yup. BFG is definitely the way to go.

[third image]

A rocket launcher and about 8 million lost souls. Nothing could possibly go wrong!

Interesting looking map though. When you release it, I'll probably give it a shot.

schwerpunk said:

Gimme some of that popcorn, Nomad. :P

Pass the butter here~

Came here looking for Doom-related pictures and in-game screenshots. Clearly, I clicked on the wrong link.

Here's some old poop in an attempt to interrupt this new poop:

Snakes said:

Came here looking for Doom-related pictures and in-game screenshots. Clearly, I clicked on the wrong link.

Here's some old poop in an attempt to interrupt this new poop:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r246/exitmrhat/Screenshot_Doom_20120608_191608.png

I like the subtle shading on the ground in the foreground, there. Also a fan of that wooden bracket, and the nice colourful contrasts going on all around. Is this screenshot the view from the player's spawn location? I always get nervous when I enter a map and I'm in an open area right next to a weapon. Means shit's about to go down fast. o_O;;

I've noticed REDROCK stuff getting more popular lately. Or maybe I'm just now noticing it. Anyway, it looks great, and I may try to use it once I'm done with my monochrome map.

That's some good old poop Snakes, but I've already seen it :(. But it's still good!